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View Poll Results: Should the US build or improve it's HSR network?
Yes 249 89.57%
No 29 10.43%
Voters: 278. You may not vote on this poll

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Old April 14th, 2010, 06:38 AM   #1361
Basincreek
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I don't recall seeing any renders showing radical transformation for the worse. I guess if you oppose all transit oriented development it would look bad to you though.
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Old April 14th, 2010, 12:21 PM   #1362
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hehe, spot on.
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Old April 14th, 2010, 12:40 PM   #1363
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LOL @ the article claiming that HSR would 'gut the heart of xyz cities'. As if car parks and interstates don't already do that. Some people are just idiots.
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Old April 15th, 2010, 06:48 PM   #1364
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Peninsula Consortium Cities to try and deny HSR funding!

Item #7 indicates they are going to try and repeal Prop 1A which authorized a $10 billion bond for HSR.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/29889537/P...a-041610-Final
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Old April 17th, 2010, 11:06 AM   #1365
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The usual NIMBYs, will they just get the *$&% over it! They mudslam this more than their state assembly people who can't get a budget passed.
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Old April 18th, 2010, 03:44 AM   #1366
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Apparently a lot of it is at the instigation of one guy who might lose 15 feet of his backyard and this has him livid. But he's rich and has been bankrolling most of this opposition including the newspaper articles.
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Old April 20th, 2010, 07:16 PM   #1367
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Outcome of California project's bid will be determined by how much loan the train vendor is willing to provide, $12 billion minimum, preferably more.

China has been marketing its yet-to-be-built high-speed train model in California on the promise of China making the loan for the necessary construction cost. Japan too is making a similar offer, now that Vietnam chose to build its Shinkansen line on a $33 billion Japanese ODA loan.

This puts Alstom's AGV and Rotem's HEMU-400x at a great disadvantage, two 400 km/hr models with 360 km/hr service speed.
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Old April 21st, 2010, 07:02 PM   #1368
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Sometimes I'm embarrassed to be an American.
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Old April 22nd, 2010, 04:24 AM   #1369
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Second.

I seriously cannot believe that the world's most power country is so far behind in such basics. It's really a shame that we have such a large cultural inertia that's stuck in the 1950s.
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Old April 22nd, 2010, 04:57 AM   #1370
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I believe the biggest problem within the US society is that it focuses too much on individualism which also fuels NIMBYism.
Present political dismay such as the Tea Party movement are also related.
IMHO individualism has gone renegade by agitators with hidden agendas blinding people of the US of the "Greater Good" to society as a whole.
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Old April 22nd, 2010, 07:13 AM   #1371
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New here.. Interesting topic. 42 pages to read....
so where are we headed with high-speed railways in america ?
We sure need a Houston-Dallas high speed railway. I-45 is way too clogged
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Old April 22nd, 2010, 03:33 PM   #1372
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Here's some of the Key Higher Speed High Speed Rail developments in the Northeast that will happen over the next 2 decades.
Speeds of 110-190mph

Boston-Portland,ME
Improvements to the entire Northeast Corridor line
Philadelphia-Pittsburgh-Cleveland
NYC-Albany-Montreal
NYC-Albany-Syracuse-Rochester-Buffalo-Cleveland?
NYC-Albany-Syracuse-Rochester-Buffalo-Toronto
Boston-Montreal
Richmond-DC

Conventional Rail lines in the Northeast that will happen by 2030
Speeds of 80-110mph

Newark-Scranton-Binghamton-Syracuse
New Haven-Hartford-Springfield
Newark-Allentown-Harrisburg
Norristown-Reading
Baltimore-York-Harrisburg
Richmond-Newport News

~Corey
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Old April 23rd, 2010, 08:53 AM   #1373
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuraiBlue View Post
I believe the biggest problem within the US society is that it focuses too much on individualism which also fuels NIMBYism.
Present political dismay such as the Tea Party movement are also related.
IMHO individualism has gone renegade by agitators with hidden agendas blinding people of the US of the "Greater Good" to society as a whole.
I agree with you. I also feel American today are in a sort of inertia or cultural inertia to be more specific. Many people still spout slogans and catchphrases from 20, 30 or 40 yrs ago to justify their opposition to infrastructure projects
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Old April 23rd, 2010, 03:40 PM   #1374
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuraiBlue View Post
I believe the biggest problem within the US society is that it focuses too much on individualism which also fuels NIMBYism.
Present political dismay such as the Tea Party movement are also related.
IMHO individualism has gone renegade by agitators with hidden agendas blinding people of the US of the "Greater Good" to society as a whole.
Just to agitate a bit. Who gets to decide what the "greater good" is?

The United Stastes was built on individualism. NIMBY is a good thing here. NIMBY stops all kinds of nonsense from going on. That man who is upset about the 15 feet of porpoerty actually OWNES that property. It is his.
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Old April 23rd, 2010, 03:50 PM   #1375
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyFish View Post
Just to agitate a bit. Who gets to decide what the "greater good" is?

The United Stastes was built on individualism. NIMBY is a good thing here. NIMBY stops all kinds of nonsense from going on. That man who is upset about the 15 feet of porpoerty actually OWNES that property. It is his.
At the end majority of society is the one to decide what is the greater good.
Individualism at times hinders progress and a wise person should consider some self sacrifice for progress rather than stubbornly insisting on something that may or may not affect one's life.
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Old April 24th, 2010, 06:00 PM   #1376
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While I'm as disappointed in America as the next guy and agree with the reasons being tossed around, the reason the "most powerful nation" (though I tend to doubt that every time I look at China) has no high speed rail is because we spent the money for it on two wars against an undefined enemy (more a war on an idea which is the hardest to fight) and defense projects that other countries wouldn't dream of. I'm glad at least now there is an effort to rectify this.
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Old April 24th, 2010, 09:02 PM   #1377
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuraiBlue View Post
At the end majority of society is the one to decide what is the greater good.
Individualism at times hinders progress and a wise person should consider some self sacrifice for progress rather than stubbornly insisting on something that may or may not affect one's life.
As a native Scandinavian I'd find it easy to agree with you. The Danes also believe in voting - after due process and debate, of course - about what is in "the interest of the nation". After that vote... I wouldn't advice anyone to remain NIMBY. They'd get clobbered for their "lack of respect for democracy". Having said that...

...it must be admitted that this implies a lack of minority protection. Majorities of, say, 52% may sometimes decide to do awful things to the remaining 48%. It was to avoid this situation that the founding fathers (who had in fresh memory a situation where a majority of Church of England adherents decided "democratically" to clubber the country's Puritan and Presbytarian fringes...) decided on a strong minority protection. And it...

...worked pretty well until 1968. The generation of our grandparents and before handled these minority protections pretty well because deep downside they felt that every societal right has to be balanced by a societal obligation. So, wealthy families in the 1920s who could easily avoid it faithfully paid their taxes. So, well connected families in the 1950s and 1960s sent their sons to Korea and Vietnam. But, alas, for the last 40 years it is as if...

...American individualism implies that the individuals have ONLY rights and no duties.
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Old April 25th, 2010, 07:33 PM   #1378
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyFish View Post
Just to agitate a bit. Who gets to decide what the "greater good" is?

The United Stastes was built on individualism. NIMBY is a good thing here. NIMBY stops all kinds of nonsense from going on. That man who is upset about the 15 feet of porpoerty actually OWNES that property. It is his.
Agreed. Most people that want to see the CA project get built (and I am one of them), are threatened by this nimbyism as its only ultimate result will be delays and increased costs. However, I am sympathetic to the homeowner's concerns. While I dont believe that property values on the peninsula will be greatly affected by this, along the right of way, they will be destroyed. I too would fight against a govt entity that wants to literally put 180 mph trains in my yard.
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Old April 25th, 2010, 11:12 PM   #1379
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Basincreek View Post
What's really weird is all their worries are pretty much unfounded. They think the high speed train is going to crash property values when there is absolutely no precedence for that world wide. They think the train will be very noisy when it really will be quieter than what they have now. They think having a station will bring in all sorts of crime and "undesirables." Which I'm pretty sure is code for non-white people.

Okay so it might allow non-white people to move in more but that shouldn't be a problem unless you're racist like the people of Palo Alto.
Sometimes I feel like this is what living in isolated sprawl has done to many Americans. It's not that we are any dumber than the rest of the world...as many would like to believe. It's ignorance. Many Americans seem to have this "black and white" view of the world...ie: it's either their pristine McMansion on a 1/4 acre plot or it's a rat-infested concrete jungle with us all living in 'shoeboxes.'
Sorry if this doesn't make any sense, but I seriously believe that if Americans could see the "grey" areas in between these two, or hell just visit another country, they wouldn't be so opposed to change.

If you think about it, it's like time stopped once the auto took over in the 1950s. Back then some of the points they bring up may have had some substance, but not in 2010.
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Old April 26th, 2010, 12:30 AM   #1380
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Akiramujina View Post
Sometimes I feel like this is what living in isolated sprawl has done to many Americans. It's not that we are any dumber than the rest of the world...as many would like to believe. It's ignorance. Many Americans seem to have this "black and white" view of the world...ie: it's either their pristine McMansion on a 1/4 acre plot or it's a rat-infested concrete jungle with us all living in 'shoeboxes.'
Sorry if this doesn't make any sense, but I seriously believe that if Americans could see the "grey" areas in between these two, or hell just visit another country, they wouldn't be so opposed to change.

If you think about it, it's like time stopped once the auto took over in the 1950s. Back then some of the points they bring up may have had some substance, but not in 2010.
Property values on the immediate vicinity (=a hundred yards) of HSR lines would decrease assuming there will be no change in land use, e.g., their subdivision will remain as such. But I guess an even higher fear is that Californian government would step in to allow other uses for their subdivision. Then, once you start getting condos in your subdivision, it loses its tranquility and isolation (something that many people value, instead of avoid).

This doesn't mean that the project shouldn't go on, but somehow eminent domain process need to be revised. Indeed, most resistance against eminent domain came when it started getting used not only to get space for public projects (airports, roads, sewage treatment facility) but also for "community redevelopment" projects.

If California government could assure those owners, somehow, that they will be annoyed no further than a HSR line, with noise barriers in place bringing the noise down to what amounts for a rural interstate, and if they could be guaranteed that no one would go there and buyout whole swats of their neighborhood (something that wouldn't cost much because it is low dense there) with backing from some "planning commission" to "redevelop" the area into condos or townhouses, they would be less fierce about the project.

However, opposition to HSR draws heavily in cases where government, against the will of the dwellers on the area, changed zoning laws to increase the attractiveness of a rail transportation project - something that is far more rare in regard of road projects, which usually are just that- road projects.
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