daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Railways

Railways (Inter)national commuter and freight trains



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


View Poll Results: Should the US build or improve it's HSR network?
Yes 249 89.57%
No 29 10.43%
Voters: 278. You may not vote on this poll

Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old May 15th, 2010, 12:53 PM   #1501
Nexis
Dark Wolf
 
Nexis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Along the Rails of North Jersey..
Posts: 15,684
Likes (Received): 17032

Lets get back on topic by looking at some High Speed Action Northeast Corridor videos



















__________________
My FLICKR Page < 54,100+ Photos of Urban Renewal , Infrastructure , Food and Nature in the Northeastern US
Visit the Reorganized New York City Section
My Photography Website
Visit the New Jersey Section
Nexis no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old May 15th, 2010, 11:00 PM   #1502
czm3
Automobile lover
 
czm3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NYC/Miami
Posts: 381
Likes (Received): 147

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariel74 View Post
No it doesn't. Not everyone knows the facts, nor is there any a priori reason why the Swiss should ride the trains more often than the Japanese.
While I find this interesting, please explain ow it is relevent to the topic of high speed rail in the US. Does Switzerland even have above 250 km/h rail? If the Swiss do take the train more frequently than their Japanese counterparts, will it affect US rail users? I think not, but am open to being enlightened...
czm3 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 16th, 2010, 01:52 AM   #1503
Ariel74
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Frankfurt am Main
Posts: 414
Likes (Received): 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by czm3 View Post
While I find this interesting, please explain ow it is relevent to the topic of high speed rail in the US. Does Switzerland even have above 250 km/h rail? If the Swiss do take the train more frequently than their Japanese counterparts, will it affect US rail users? I think not, but am open to being enlightened...
I wasn't party to the discussion on that topic. Read the discussion yourself. Someone else was arguing about the reliability of Japanese Shinkansen system, and made the claim that Japanese make most of the use of their rail system, yet they still have had no fatal accident. That sounds to me very relevant to the topic of this thread.

But honestly, why don't you f* read yourself, instead wasting my precious time????
Ariel74 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 16th, 2010, 03:56 AM   #1504
czm3
Automobile lover
 
czm3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NYC/Miami
Posts: 381
Likes (Received): 147

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariel74 View Post
I wasn't party to the discussion on that topic. Read the discussion yourself. Someone else was arguing about the reliability of Japanese Shinkansen system, and made the claim that Japanese make most of the use of their rail system, yet they still have had no fatal accident. That sounds to me very relevant to the topic of this thread.

But honestly, why don't you f* read yourself, instead wasting my precious time????
Easy tiger, no need to get your panties in a twist.

I did read the topic (although you just admitted you didnt). Does it really matter which population uses the their rail transport more. No, it really doesnt especially when discuss the US where rail use is very low. All this is way off topic.
czm3 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 16th, 2010, 04:38 AM   #1505
SamuraiBlue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,232
Likes (Received): 195

Quote:
Originally Posted by czm3 View Post
While I find this interesting, please explain ow it is relevent to the topic of high speed rail in the US. Does Switzerland even have above 250 km/h rail? If the Swiss do take the train more frequently than their Japanese counterparts, will it affect US rail users? I think not, but am open to being enlightened...
Although the presentation was off the information give the readers an idea on how much ridership is required/expected for HSR and mass transit system as a whole to be successful.
On another thread we see the transition of passengers from airplanes to HSR(Spain HSR thread between Madrid and Barcelona) which also projects the possibility of HSR between SF and LA.
SamuraiBlue no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 16th, 2010, 06:40 AM   #1506
k.k.jetcar
Registered User
 
k.k.jetcar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Sapporo
Posts: 1,811
Likes (Received): 452

As someone who is guilty of contributing to what some consider off-topic discussions, all I have to say is that in any discussion of US HSR, due to the fact that true HSR is still a concept not a reality yet in the U.S., and as such, you are bound to (indeed required) to have examples and data brought in from countries which have well-developed HSR systems and/or high rail passenger figures, as a way to provide context or perspective. After all, most the discussion here is pure speculation, as to date, not a single shovel of dirt has been turned to begin construction of a high speed line in the U.S.

Now then, here is some news about HSR relating to the U.S., regarding Japanese operators/manufacturers. For risk of bringing out he who shall not be named (crashworthy! crashworthiness!! Japan=bad, China=even badder!), this quote is especially interesting:

Quote:
East Japan Railway Co., the country's largest train operator, is emphasizing systems that allow existing train lines and new high-speed lines to be used together, while Central Japan Railway Co. is pitching a complete system with cutting-edge technology
Source:
http://www.businessweek.com/ap/finan.../D9FLTLQ80.htm
k.k.jetcar no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 16th, 2010, 07:29 AM   #1507
dl3000
Registered User
 
dl3000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 418
Likes (Received): 10

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariel74 View Post
Where did you read that Velaro is capable of commercial speed above 350? It's usually said that it's top commercial speed is at 350. Shinkansen E5 does not have a top commercial speed above 350 either, keyword here is "commercial". And neither of the other two models you mentioned - AGV and Zefiro - has run commercial service yet, one of them is in test, the other is probably still on the drawing board.

In fact, the first train to enter service with a designed top commercial speed over 350km/h might be the chinese CRH380, which, according to chinese news sources, is scheduled to be delivered this october.

It was also believed that another development of such super high speed trains is taking place in china, based on CRH3 (which was largely siemens Velaro technology). Though the new Wiki-Article on CRH380 seems to deny this, it does not provide sources.

Whoa relax, all I'm saying is Siemens isn't going to design a whole new trainset to get to 350, they would just upgrade the Velaro. What about Velaro D? Im not being that technical here, I'm talking about what are all the latest and greatest very high speed EMUs? 350 was a number I tossed, I'm not asking if they're in service, I'm asking what is out there. Thats all.
__________________
"San Diego...drink it in, it always goes down smooth" - Ron Burgundy
dl3000 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 16th, 2010, 12:26 PM   #1508
Ariel74
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Frankfurt am Main
Posts: 414
Likes (Received): 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by czm3 View Post
(although you just admitted you didnt).
where did I do that? (So it's actually true that americans cannot read)


Quote:
Does it really matter which population uses the their rail transport more. No, it really doesnt especially when discuss the US where rail use is very low. All this is way off topic.
You not only can't read, is also a halfwit. If someone claims that Japanese trains are more reliable than others, obviously it's relevant to the HSR bidding in the US. One of the argument for Japanese reliability is that they have had no bad accident. Yet this would not be much of an argument if the Japanese hardly ride the trains anyway. It's only a strong argument when coupled with the other claim that Japanese ride the trains as often as anyone else (which turns out to be not literally true)

Got it, dimwit?
Ariel74 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 16th, 2010, 12:27 PM   #1509
Ariel74
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Frankfurt am Main
Posts: 414
Likes (Received): 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by dl3000 View Post
Whoa relax, all I'm saying is Siemens isn't going to design a whole new trainset to get to 350, they would just upgrade the Velaro. What about Velaro D? Im not being that technical here, I'm talking about what are all the latest and greatest very high speed EMUs? 350 was a number I tossed, I'm not asking if they're in service, I'm asking what is out there. Thats all.
You asked for information, I gave you what I knew. What's the problem?
Ariel74 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 16th, 2010, 04:28 PM   #1510
K_
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,744
Likes (Received): 243

Quote:
Originally Posted by dl3000 View Post
Whoa relax, all I'm saying is Siemens isn't going to design a whole new trainset to get to 350, they would just upgrade the Velaro. What about Velaro D? Im not being that technical here, I'm talking about what are all the latest and greatest very high speed EMUs? 350 was a number I tossed, I'm not asking if they're in service, I'm asking what is out there. Thats all.
For one thing, any train in Europe intended for a commercial speed of X has to demonstrate to be safe at X + 10%. Since the Velaro has been sold as a 330kph capable train one can asume it can actually run at 363 kph. I don't know what margins are used in China though. That the "CRH380" is intended for 350kph service seems to suggest they use similar margins as Europe does.
K_ no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 16th, 2010, 05:52 PM   #1511
HyperMiler
BANNED
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 240
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by k.k.jetcar View Post
East Japan Railway Co., the country's largest train operator, is emphasizing systems that allow existing train lines and new high-speed lines to be used together, while Central Japan Railway Co. is pitching a complete system with cutting-edge technology

Source:
http://www.businessweek.com/ap/finan.../D9FLTLQ80.htm
Actually the demonstration was exactly the opposite of what the US wanted to see. Japanese demonstrated running conventional rolling stock on a dedicated Shinkansen track, not running Shinkansen train on a conventional track as required by the Americans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dl3000 View Post
Whoa relax, all I'm saying is Siemens isn't going to design a whole new trainset to get to 350, they would just upgrade the Velaro.
Velaro E is already certified for 350 km/h revenue service operation.

Velaro CN(aka CRH3) isn't, due to extra drag and weight resulting from a wider body. But that doesn't concern Chinese authorities a bit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by K_ View Post
That the "CRH380" is intended for 350kph service seems to suggest they use similar margins as Europe does.
No, they really intend to operation CRH380 at 380 km/h. Claimed top speed is 420 km/h. This is made possible because Shinkansen E2 body that they are using with bogies from CRH3 is significantly lighter than CRH3's.

380 km/h has a special meaning in Chinese railway world; it enables a 4 hour travel from Shanghai to Beijing.
HyperMiler no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 16th, 2010, 06:14 PM   #1512
Ariel74
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Frankfurt am Main
Posts: 414
Likes (Received): 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by K_ View Post
For one thing, any train in Europe intended for a commercial speed of X has to demonstrate to be safe at X + 10%. Since the Velaro has been sold as a 330kph capable train one can asume it can actually run at 363 kph. I don't know what margins are used in China though. That the "CRH380" is intended for 350kph service seems to suggest they use similar margins as Europe does.
1) It's not true that Velaro has been sold as a 330kph train. One version of it, sold to Spain, has designated highest commercial speed of 350km/h.

2) The chinese apparently use the same margins. The highest test speed they require of the CRH380 is 420km/h, and for trains currently running on the Wuguang line with highest commercial speed of 350km/h, they did tests with speed of over 380km/h.
Ariel74 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 16th, 2010, 06:43 PM   #1513
czm3
Automobile lover
 
czm3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NYC/Miami
Posts: 381
Likes (Received): 147

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariel74 View Post
where did I do that? (So it's actually true that americans cannot read)
You said it in your first sentance where you stated that you werent "party to the discussion of that topic."



Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariel74 View Post
You not only can't read, is also a halfwit.
My dear German friend, let me assure you that the proper way of saying this would be: "you not only can't read, but are also a halfwit."


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariel74 View Post
If someone claims that Japanese trains are more reliable than others, obviously it's relevant to the HSR bidding in the US. One of the argument for Japanese reliability is that they have had no bad accident. Yet this would not be much of an argument if the Japanese hardly ride the trains anyway. It's only a strong argument when coupled with the other claim that Japanese ride the trains as often as anyone else (which turns out to be not literally true)

Got it, dimwit?
While the discussion of the reliability of Japanese HSR is very relevant, comparing passenger numbers to the swiss system is not. I think you should seek out an anger management group as you seem to be constantly upset or stressed. There is no need for you to get this bent out of shape when discussing a train, but its good to see you teeing of on others as well.

Cheers, Chris
czm3 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 16th, 2010, 07:13 PM   #1514
dumbfword
Habitual Line Stepper
 
dumbfword's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 293
Likes (Received): 563

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariel74 View Post
where did I do that? (So it's actually true that americans cannot read)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariel74 View Post
I wasn't party to the discussion on that topic. Read the discussion yourself. Someone else was arguing about the reliability of Japanese Shinkansen system, and made the claim that Japanese make most of the use of their rail system, yet they still have had no fatal accident. That sounds to me very relevant to the topic of this thread.

But honestly, why don't you f* read yourself, instead wasting my precious time????
__________________
"I am the color red in a world full of black and white"
dumbfword no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 16th, 2010, 07:16 PM   #1515
K_
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,744
Likes (Received): 243

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariel74 View Post
1) It's not true that Velaro has been sold as a 330kph train. One version of it, sold to Spain, has designated highest commercial speed of 350km/h.
It's the Spanish version I was referring to, but I must have misremembered it's designated top speed. I checked, and you're right.
The Velaro for DB has a top speed of 320. It's the Velaro's predecessor, the ICE-3 that has a top speed of 330. But they don't run that fast anywhere.
K_ no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 16th, 2010, 08:32 PM   #1516
HyperMiler
BANNED
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 240
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariel74 View Post
2) The chinese apparently use the same margins. The highest test speed they require of the CRH380 is 420km/h, and for trains currently running on the Wuguang line with highest commercial speed of 350km/h, they did tests with speed of over 380km/h.
SF500 bogie used in CRH380 is not certified for 380 km/h revenue service.

Power wise, 380 km/h is doable. But Shinkansen E2 car body and SF500 bogie cannot take the stress of 380 km/h sustained operation.
HyperMiler no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 16th, 2010, 09:42 PM   #1517
Ariel74
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Frankfurt am Main
Posts: 414
Likes (Received): 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by czm3 View Post
You said it in your first sentance where you stated that you werent "party to the discussion of that topic."
It means no such thing. Look up in your dictionary (if you have one) the difference between "being party to" a discussion and "reading" it.




Quote:
let me assure you that the proper way of saying this would be: "you not only can't read, but are also a halfwit."
Correct, that's you.

And please, take some time to go back to school, relearn the english language and basic reasoning skills.
Ariel74 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 16th, 2010, 09:44 PM   #1518
Ariel74
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Frankfurt am Main
Posts: 414
Likes (Received): 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by dumbfword View Post
oh, another American who doesn't know the difference between "being party to" and being acquainted with by reading/listening etc. Guess that just explains why it's the country where people are fooled by the illiterate G.W.B. twice.... what can I say.
Ariel74 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 16th, 2010, 10:00 PM   #1519
czm3
Automobile lover
 
czm3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NYC/Miami
Posts: 381
Likes (Received): 147

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariel74 View Post
It means no such thing. Look up in your dictionary (if you have one) the difference between "being party to" a discussion and "reading" it.
Actually one is privy to a discussion not party to it. But I'm sure you already knew that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariel74 View Post
Correct, that's you.
Unless you want to sound like Yoda, try "You are correct."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariel74 View Post
And please, take some time to go back to school, relearn the english language and basic reasoning skills.
In context of you telling me I'm correct, this doesnt make much sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariel74 View Post
Guess that just explains why it's the country where people are fooled by the illiterate G.W.B. twice.... what can I say.
Perhaps if Americans had better education we could benefit from the illustrious leadership of Adolf Hitler and Erich Honnecker....

I'm done with you son, there is no hope for you.
czm3 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 16th, 2010, 10:09 PM   #1520
Ariel74
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Frankfurt am Main
Posts: 414
Likes (Received): 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by czm3 View Post
Actually one is privy to a discussion not party to it.
put "party to the discussion" with the quotation marks into Google search machine, see how many entries you find... over 37 millions. "privy to" a discussion simply has a different meaning.

I know it's hard to believe what knowledgeable people tell you if you are surrounded all your life by people who don't speak proper English. But you are only going to look more and more like a buffoon if you don't swallow your pride and learn.

You can't throw a tantrum at facts. Grow up.
Ariel74 no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
amtrak, desertxpress, fly california, high speed rail, northeast corridor, texas triangle, united states

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 09:53 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium