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View Poll Results: Should the US build or improve it's HSR network?
Yes 249 89.57%
No 29 10.43%
Voters: 278. You may not vote on this poll

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Old May 16th, 2010, 10:19 PM   #1521
Ariel74
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Originally Posted by K_ View Post
It's the Spanish version I was referring to, but I must have misremembered it's designated top speed. I checked, and you're right.
The Velaro for DB has a top speed of 320. It's the Velaro's predecessor, the ICE-3 that has a top speed of 330. But they don't run that fast anywhere.
I wonder if there is any known project that Siemens is engaged in beyond the Velaros already on the market... Velaro is a beautiful train, but if they don't do anything, they will not keep up with their competitors on energy-efficiency, noise-reduction, and speed, all of which are characteristics attractive to their potential foreign customers.
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Old May 16th, 2010, 11:08 PM   #1522
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oh, another American who doesn't know the difference between "being party to" and being acquainted with by reading/listening etc. Guess that just explains why it's the country where people are fooled by the illiterate G.W.B. twice.... what can I say.
Sad your the one that tries to act like the mature genius and yet always brings it to childish insults.


Why are you in this thread with all your anti-American insults? Oh, wait. Following Hypemiler from thread to thread.
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Old May 16th, 2010, 11:20 PM   #1523
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Why are you in this thread with all your anti-American insults?
You've got to put yourself in the shoes of someone who has got to deal with illiteracy here in this forum before he can make any points whatsoever. You know how frustrating it is given that this is a thread frequented by people who are supposed to speak the English language but don't act like it??? One has to write 5 posts to explain why someone completely missed what the others are saying because he simply cannot read.

I am not anti-american. I am just not your school teacher. Go buy a dictionary. And use it, ok?

And I don't follow anyone, let alone that rabid and illiterate hate spewer, whom I have ignored for a long time.
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Old May 17th, 2010, 08:10 AM   #1524
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Agreed. Most people that want to see the CA project get built (and I am one of them), are threatened by this nimbyism as its only ultimate result will be delays and increased costs. However, I am sympathetic to the homeowner's concerns. While I dont believe that property values on the peninsula will be greatly affected by this, along the right of way, they will be destroyed. I too would fight against a govt entity that wants to literally put 180 mph trains in my yard.
Wrong. Property values along the ROW will go up. Remember these people already have a railroad there. A slow and noisy railroad with at-grade crossings. HSR will replace the old track with high end track and will grade separate all the crossings. On top of that it will be electrified getting rid of the diesel trains. The end result will be a more pleasant and quieter neighbor. The real problem here is that these people bought their homes in 80's assuming rail was dead and that the line would be decommissioned at some point and turned into a park. That, of course, didn't happen. Now here comes HSR and they start thinking they can milk it to force HSR into a tunnel thus burying all those noisy lines and giving them the park they always wanted. This is nothing more than a huge scam to make rich property owners richer.


Incidentally UPRR sent a letter to CAHSR informing them that they will not help HSR at all. Not only will they not let them use their ROW they will fight to prevent HSR from buying property, that's not theirs, adjacent to their ROW. Apparently they are afraid that there will be more dense residential developments along the HSR route and they want to rezone it to industrial.
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Old May 17th, 2010, 09:28 AM   #1525
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Wrong. Property values along the ROW will go up. Remember these people already have a railroad there. A slow and noisy railroad with at-grade crossings. HSR will replace the old track with high end track and will grade separate all the crossings. On top of that it will be electrified getting rid of the diesel trains. The end result will be a more pleasant and quieter neighbor. The real problem here is that these people bought their homes in 80's assuming rail was dead and that the line would be decommissioned at some point and turned into a park. That, of course, didn't happen. Now here comes HSR and they start thinking they can milk it to force HSR into a tunnel thus burying all those noisy lines and giving them the park they always wanted. This is nothing more than a huge scam to make rich property owners richer.


Incidentally UPRR sent a letter to CAHSR informing them that they will not help HSR at all. Not only will they not let them use their ROW they will fight to prevent HSR from buying property, that's not theirs, adjacent to their ROW. Apparently they are afraid that there will be more dense residential developments along the HSR route and they want to rezone it to industrial.
You know I hadn't understood UPRR's stance besides just being greedy and uncooperative until I read your post. Residents do complicate things substantially. I guess BNSF simply believes that the benefits outweigh the costs IF CAHSR can uphold their end and ultimately not adversely affect BNSF's business.
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Old May 20th, 2010, 06:14 AM   #1526
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agreed that the track is the issue. Just like the rest of this topic, right now the track is more important than the rolling stock. That being said, the bombardier that is acela is a terrible train. It is way too heavy due to fra regs. Also, the interior is an utter joke. I don't know about the business class, but the tray tables in first class are so misaligned that one has to hold on to their drink unless one wants it to end up in their lap...
Don't forget the overhead catenary systems. True high speed rail will require the use of a "zig-zagged" power line. American systems don't have that, meaning that any train trying to use existing tracks and catenary systems will have their pantographs sliced in half from the friction and heat.
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Old May 20th, 2010, 04:20 PM   #1527
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Is that true!? I cannot believe zig-zag catenary is not in practice. Actually I can
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Old May 21st, 2010, 04:58 AM   #1528
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Old May 21st, 2010, 04:59 AM   #1529
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Is that true!? I cannot believe zig-zag catenary is not in practice. Actually I can
If they are talking about the Northeast, its 100 years old in many parts. Just look at some of the catenary posts and it looks like Edison himself designed it.
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Old May 21st, 2010, 05:13 AM   #1530
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If they are talking about the Northeast, its 100 years old in many parts. Just look at some of the catenary posts and it looks like Edison himself designed it.
Yes, alot of the infrastructure was built by the Pennsylvania RR back in the day. At the time, it was state of the art- after all, the PRR labeled itself "The Standard Railroad of the World". Unfortunately, portions of that infrastructure have not been upgraded or maintained to a level allowing true sustained high speed operation.
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Old May 21st, 2010, 05:14 AM   #1531
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If they are talking about the Northeast, its 100 years old in many parts. Just look at some of the catenary posts and it looks like Edison himself designed it.
The CT section is 90% replaced , the New York section is next , The New Jersey Section is 30% replaced , the PA section needs to be done , and Delaware , aswell Maryland.

New Catenary

image hosted on flickr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/4809445...58376/sizes/l/

Almost Replaced New Haven Catenary

image hosted on flickr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/3378689...18473/sizes/l/

image hosted on flickr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/3378689...n/photostream/

Old Catenary , yet to be replaced

image hosted on flickr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kgradin...98637/sizes/l/
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Old May 21st, 2010, 05:25 AM   #1532
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Nice pictures, Nexis. I like the older catenary supports with their latticework and headspans- I see similar styles here in Japan on some of the older lines. However, the newer simplified catenary like that in the first picture is what's being installed in most places around the world, and probably this is seen as less obtrusive aesthetically by the general public (and less expensive to maintain certainly).

Like the position light signals too- where was this pic taken, I wonder?
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Old May 21st, 2010, 06:44 AM   #1533
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Originally Posted by k.k.jetcar View Post

Nice pictures, Nexis. I like the older catenary supports with their latticework and headspans- I see similar styles here in Japan on some of the older lines. However, the newer simplified catenary like that in the first picture is what's being installed in most places around the world, and probably this is seen as less obtrusive aesthetically by the general public (and less expensive to maintain certainly).

Like the position light signals too- where was this pic taken, I wonder?
I'm not sure could be in CT or PA.

Here's some New Haven Journey Clips. Shows you the Old , New & UC parts of the New Haven section of the Northeast Corridor.











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Old May 21st, 2010, 08:50 AM   #1534
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I'm not sure could be in CT or PA.
I see thanks. After some snooping around I found out these signals on the NEC are actually PRR style position light signals converted to color position lights, and signals like these mounted high lose their middle lamp, hence the somewhat "bald" appearance.
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Old May 22nd, 2010, 06:28 AM   #1535
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Great pictures, Nexis, exactly what I'm talking about.


While on the subject of catenaries, anyone know why HSR and intercity catenary posts are on the outside of the railroad while on light rail type systems tend to have the posts in the center? I would think putting the posts in the center would save a good amount of money. I'm guessing it must be due to the strains of faster trains in both directions on the catenary post is too much for one post to handle so each direction has its own posts. Either that or it has to do with air flow but the former makes more sense. Anyone know for sure? This has to do more with simple 2 track railroads, more tracks like on the NEC necessitate the apparatus to span all tracks.
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Old May 24th, 2010, 05:29 PM   #1536
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Great pictures, Nexis, exactly what I'm talking about.


While on the subject of catenaries, anyone know why HSR and intercity catenary posts are on the outside of the railroad while on light rail type systems tend to have the posts in the center? I would think putting the posts in the center would save a good amount of money. I'm guessing it must be due to the strains of faster trains in both directions on the catenary post is too much for one post to handle so each direction has its own posts. Either that or it has to do with air flow but the former makes more sense. Anyone know for sure? This has to do more with simple 2 track railroads, more tracks like on the NEC necessitate the apparatus to span all tracks.
Might this have to do with the view and safety? Once you are between the two rows of cantenary posts, your view on both railtracks is totally unobstructed. So for workers, people passing at grade crossings and for train drivers, every train and every object is visible even when situated on the opposite track, what becomes more and more important with increasing speeds.

Just as an idea...
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Old May 25th, 2010, 10:45 AM   #1537
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You think one day freight could just be totally evicted or reduced from certain parts of the NEC? I guess there's through freights which would be complicated to bypass, and then there are locals. The CSX Pope's Creek Branch is an example, it serves multiple coal fired power plants down Maryland's western shore along with a few regular freight customers in the MD suburbs, and at Bowie long scuttlebutt coal trains come lumbering onto the NEC.

Maybe since coal is bogus anyways, the state could decommission those plants, leaving maybe one local freight which could run at 3 am or whatever time the rails are empty.

Likewise, is it just me or do the majority of spurs off the NEC, WAS-NYP, go off the eastern side of the tracks? Is that how they manage it? I've always wondered how the railroads are able to mix traffic and still have a fast schedule.

Whatever, I don't know much about the NEC so this is just speculation on the part of your typical rail enthusiast.
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Old May 25th, 2010, 07:19 PM   #1538
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You think one day freight could just be totally evicted or reduced from certain parts of the NEC?
NEC isn't likely to go high speed. Acela is as good as it gets on that line.
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Old May 25th, 2010, 08:16 PM   #1539
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NEC isn't likely to go high speed. Acela is as good as it gets on that line.

Lets hope they can go higher speed. I take this train a lot from NYP to New Haven and 110 mph service would cut a lot of time out of the ride.

BTW what does it mean when catenary "zig zags?" Also, couldnt they hang the new overhead lines from the old towers?
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Old May 25th, 2010, 08:24 PM   #1540
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Lets hope they can go higher speed. I take this train a lot from NYP to New Haven and 110 mph service would cut a lot of time out of the ride.

BTW what does it mean when catenary "zig zags?" Also, couldnt they hang the new overhead lines from the old towers?
'Zig-zags' means that the wire shifts from side to side as one progresses down the track, this to even out wear on the pick-up pans on the locomotive pantographs.

As for speed - 'tis a shame on the NEC NE of NYC - to make it any faster, especially to bring it up to 300+ km/h standards, would require an entirely new ROW which would have to be run through some of the most expensive and packed with lawyers land space in the entire USA.



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