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View Poll Results: Should the US build or improve it's HSR network?
Yes 249 89.57%
No 29 10.43%
Voters: 278. You may not vote on this poll

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Old June 3rd, 2010, 11:40 PM   #1581
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sorry, but what's the difference, its it shorter?
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Old June 3rd, 2010, 11:49 PM   #1582
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poshbakerloo View Post
why would they have 2 locos at one end, and not 1 at each end!?
Don't know too much details, but apparently, this is one of the first
appearance of those new locs in revenue service, right ? It might then
very well be that the train operator requested that two locs are used
in order to minimize the probability of a service interruption in case of
malfunction. We in Belgium frequently operate that way when new
locs are put in production. Iron the problems out without risking too
much incidents in the field. Expensive practice, but worth it in my
opinion...

And no, I don't believe that it was just one loc being brought back to
the barn, because in that case, such loc would not have its pantograph
raised. Here obviously both locs were operating in M.U. Gives nice muscle,
though... never saw so long a car rake start up so fast !
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Old June 4th, 2010, 02:03 AM   #1583
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You are probably right.

Even though they look the same it's only the 4629 that us the new loco, the 4601 at the back of the train is an old loco that has been in service since 2001.
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Old June 4th, 2010, 10:59 AM   #1584
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcVD View Post
Don't know too much details, but apparently, this is one of the first
appearance of those new locs in revenue service, right ? It might then
very well be that the train operator requested that two locs are used
in order to minimize the probability of a service interruption in case of
malfunction. We in Belgium frequently operate that way when new
locs are put in production. Iron the problems out without risking too
much incidents in the field. Expensive practice, but worth it in my
opinion...
Well, the NMBS seems to be more suffer more from teething problems with new material than most railways. Other railways just put new stock in service without any problems.

Quote:
And no, I don't believe that it was just one loc being brought back to
the barn, because in that case, such loc would not have its pantograph
raised.
A lot depends on what the common practices of the railway are. I know that in Belgium "pantograph up" means "loc in operation", and that the engine driver can't even leave his position without lowering the panto. But other railways operate in different ways. In Switzerland I've seen consists of just engines (which are thus obvious engine moves) with each engine having its panto up. I don't know what the practices are in New Jersey though.
One advantage of having the panto up, even when an engine is just being moved in a consist, is that you can use the dynamic brake more efficiently (pushing energy back in the overhead). Many engines don't have enough braking power otherwise.
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Old June 4th, 2010, 04:44 PM   #1585
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I can give you a long list of new rolling stock with serious teething problems from most railway companies around Europe but I don't feel like it right now. The reality is that it happens too often, especially nowadays with all the high tech electronics and computer systems. So it's definitely not just a Belgian problem, but a overall problem of the railway manufacturing industry.
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Old June 5th, 2010, 02:09 AM   #1586
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momo1435 View Post
I can give you a long list of new rolling stock with serious teething problems from most railway companies around Europe but I don't feel like it right now. The reality is that it happens too often, especially nowadays with all the high tech electronics and computer systems. So it's definitely not just a Belgian problem, but a overall problem of the railway manufacturing industry.
Entirely agree with you, it happens far too often. A few examples

SNCF dual system locs BB 26000 (alstom) - took years to work OK
SNCF tri system locs BB36000 (alstom too) - still not working to spec now
SNCF motorcoaches X75000 (no, I'm not an alstom basher)
Prima locs in Iran (worn out after less than 10 years)
German ICE3 - still plagued with problems after what ? 10 years ? of service
DB E184 that never worked properly under DC current
DB E 120 with their chassis failing after 20 years of service
Italian pendolinos
The EE60 horror story in the US (old horse, I know, but still worth mentioning)
AMTRAK's SDP40F derailmments

And the list goes on and on. If car manufacturers behaved like this, they
would go out of business. Railway operating companies should press their
suppliers much more seriously.
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Old June 9th, 2010, 08:50 PM   #1587
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http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/...entry_id=65346

Arnold Schwarzenegger is heading to China, Japan, and Korea in September, with the focus of trip on California HSR project.
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Old June 10th, 2010, 04:59 AM   #1588
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Building a High-speed rail hub would not be very difficult in Chicago. There are lots of excess rail tracks that are being under used. These can be rebuilt as dedicated HSL tracks within the city limits and going to union station. But just outside the city in the suburbs dedicated new tracks will be required as well as expensive land acquisition. We did it in the 50s with highways and I dont see why we cant do it again with rail.
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Old June 10th, 2010, 02:03 PM   #1589
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Here's some stuff i pulled form the Northeast Master Rail plan , some of which has already started. It shows how bad and how much is needed. I don't think there aiming for HSR anymore , but More Capacity / on time performance.

http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2...rail-planning/

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Full NEC upgrade

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Current NEC & Feeder lines

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Massachusetts / Rhode Island

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Eastern Connecticut

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Western Connecticut

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New York City

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New Jersey

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Southeastern PA / Delaware

image hosted on flickr


Maryland / DC

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Northeast Regional Improvements in Virgina

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Keystone Corridor Extension

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Hudson River line (NY)

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Springfield - New Haven corridor improvements

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Old June 10th, 2010, 05:21 PM   #1590
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexis View Post
Here's some stuff i pulled form the Northeast Master Rail plan , some of which has already started. It shows how bad and how much is needed. I don't think there aiming for HSR anymore , but More Capacity / on time performance.
HSR was never an option for NE corridor. Just too expensive to build.

You will see HSR in FL and CA, but the rest is uncertain.
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Old June 10th, 2010, 06:59 PM   #1591
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http://www.sbsun.com/ci_15239527

Some interesting info.

Chinese are pushing Maglev train for SoCal - Las Vega Desert Express link, and China's Export Import bank committed $7 billion funding for it.

The catch is that Maglev tracks cost a lot more to build than conventional high speed rail tracks, so that means China's $7 billion wouldn't stretch too far.
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Old June 11th, 2010, 11:22 PM   #1592
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperMiler View Post
HSR was never an option for NE corridor. Just too expensive to build.

You will see HSR in FL and CA, but the rest is uncertain.
It's not expensive to the point where we can't afford it. Just look at our military expenditures.

The political environment just isn't there to support such a project. Sure, a few government officials like the idea, but that doesn't mean everyone will play along.

We've become too lazy, too short-sighted, and too caught up with our current way of life that we don't see the competition.

I think the best thing that can happen to the U.S. right now is for China, Europe, and other truly forward-thinking countries to eliminate American competition. Only then will we wake up and finally realize how far behind we are. I'm sorry, I love this country. We have so much potential and I want the best for it, but there's no point in continuously supporting a country that has become so unable to listen and move foward.

What we need is a giant whip, and if it has to come from other nations, then so be it.
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Old June 12th, 2010, 01:03 AM   #1593
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HAWC1506 View Post
It's not expensive to the point where we can't afford it. Just look at our military expenditures.

The political environment just isn't there to support such a project. Sure, a few government officials like the idea, but that doesn't mean everyone will play along.

We've become too lazy, too short-sighted, and too caught up with our current way of life that we don't see the competition.

I think the best thing that can happen to the U.S. right now is for China, Europe, and other truly forward-thinking countries to eliminate American competition. Only then will we wake up and finally realize how far behind we are. I'm sorry, I love this country. We have so much potential and I want the best for it, but there's no point in continuously supporting a country that has become so unable to listen and move foward.

What we need is a giant whip, and if it has to come from other nations, then so be it.
The Northeast is different , alot of Republicans and Democrats are for more Rail / Transit vs. more Highways. So the Political atmosphere is different here then the rest of the Country , the only problem is the $$$$. Hench why the Feds have funded half the Master plan outside the Main NEC and funding other systems.
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Old June 12th, 2010, 07:00 AM   #1594
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What's the cost of a full-out HSR network in the NEC?
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Old June 12th, 2010, 10:27 AM   #1595
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Quote:
We've become too lazy, too short-sighted, and too caught up with our current way of life that we don't see the competition.

I think the best thing that can happen to the U.S. right now is for China, Europe, and other truly forward-thinking countries to eliminate American competition. Only then will we wake up and finally realize how far behind we are. I'm sorry, I love this country. We have so much potential and I want the best for it, but there's no point in continuously supporting a country that has become so unable to listen and move forward.

What we need is a giant whip, and if it has to come from other nations, then so be it.
Pretty much agree. I think Winston Churchill (himself of half-American background) summed it up well when he said:

"We can always count on the Americans to do the right thing, after they have exhausted all the other possibilities."

The question is, when they do, will it be too late??
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Old June 12th, 2010, 08:13 PM   #1596
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What's the cost of a full-out HSR network in the NEC?
Much less than widening I-95 or building new airports.
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Old June 12th, 2010, 08:17 PM   #1597
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Quote:
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Although I understood your idea, I respectfully disagree with it. HSR is meant to be a competitor to air travel in short haul routes, mainly. Then, as people can rent cars in airports, they could rent cars in HSR stations, if they were properly built near major interchanges instead of being cramped in a CBD or a downtown.
So downtowns are not located near major highway interchanges? Are you this stupid intentionally?

Putting HSR stations in the Central Business District of cities ensures accessibility to the most people and ALL forms of transportation while not catering to the private automobile.
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Last edited by hoosier; June 12th, 2010 at 08:23 PM.
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Old June 12th, 2010, 08:23 PM   #1598
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If I, a reasonable person willing to discuss the issue carefully, can spot this problem (using HSR as a corollary to impose top-down restrictions on development or to "fight" the suburban way of life, restricting choice for American citizens), you can easily imagine how easy would it be for a regular Tea Partier to grab the argument and run an ad accusing HSR projects as being "social engineering orchestrated by the liberal-in-Chief".
The regular tea-bagger couldn't even spell "high speed rail" much less debate its merits.

So building HSR is a form of government control and imposition of a certain way of life but spending over a trillion dollars on the freeway network is not?


You do realize that the federal government received almost 100 BILLION in funding requests when it opened up the bidding for the paltry $8 billion it allocated in the stimulus for HSR. There is a demand.

It's pretty obvious from your posts that you are an ignorant hack desiring to force your unsustainable, oil-guzzling, anti-environment worldview on the rest of society. You are as much to blame for the gulf oil spill as TransAmerica or Halliburton.
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Old June 12th, 2010, 08:29 PM   #1599
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Then, the conditions to the system to flourish were already there. Construction was cheap, land was easy to buy or preempt by eminent domain, and NIMBY's, thank God, were nuts. Astutely, most interstate design in urban areas was set through plagued, blighted and decaying neighborhoods to avoid political controversy, doing those neighborhoods a favor to many of them by dismantling them as "communities" with no future anyway but crime and chronic poverty.
Wrong again. Many interstate highways were intentionally routed through MINORITY districts that were thriving prior to their destruction. Do a little bit of goddamn research for once.

The interstate highway system was one of the single largest factors in the decimation of the inner-city and urban decline. It is government social engineering at its grandest. Rich white people could move out of the city to cheap land zoned by the government for low density housing. Government lending programs allowed many people to get financing to purchase these suburban dwellings.
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Old June 12th, 2010, 08:32 PM   #1600
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Then, you had a self-sustaining financing mechanism, the Highway Trust Fund... Had the trust fund been managed properly, it could still be used as the main source of finance for highway projects.

But raising the gas tax would undermine the core enabling aspect of suburbanism- cheap oil. People would finally be forced to bear the true cost of their autocentric, suburban lifestyle and once they felt the impact in their wallets- they would drive a lot less, move closer to work, and (GASP!) take mass transit. We saw this when gas prices zoomed to over $3.50/gallon a couple of years ago.
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