daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Railways

Railways (Inter)national commuter and freight trains



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


View Poll Results: Should the US build or improve it's HSR network?
Yes 249 89.57%
No 29 10.43%
Voters: 278. You may not vote on this poll

Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old September 2nd, 2010, 12:11 AM   #1741
Ariel74
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Frankfurt am Main
Posts: 414
Likes (Received): 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by miamipaintball View Post
jews need to stop being cry baby's, what about the millions of German and soviet citizens who suffered under Stalin and Hitlers rule?

my family is from Germany, and they had to fight during ww2, as it was either death of your whole family for "going against the government" or fighting the war. they need to get over it already, if i was a law maker and that shit was brought up, i would sure be on all news networks for the outburst i would have.
That's the craziest thing I have heard for a long time.

The jews had no choice in their being gassed. Your german ancestors had the choice between doing an immoral thing on the one hand, and risking their lives for not following immoral orders, on the other. The right choice would have been the second of the two. That most germans didn't make the right choice only speaks against them, it doesn't make the right choice wrong, the wrong choice right. That the right choice was dangerous doesn't change these facts either.

Honestly, saying what you are saying, you've got no business staying in America.
Ariel74 no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old September 2nd, 2010, 12:44 AM   #1742
Apoc89
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 287
Likes (Received): 55

^

It's easy to talk about how terrible all the Germans were when you live in a relatively free society with access to near-unlimited media sources through the internet. In WW2-era Germany, where all Nazi atrocities such as the Holocaust were kept strictly quiet and the media was completely controlled by the state and pumping out propaganda 24/7, it's not difficult to see why people would not have even considered joining the military to be immoral. Neither you nor I are immune to the effects of living in such conditions. Also, the Allies committed plenty of atrocities, many of them government-sanctioned, would you blame every single Allied soldier for them as well? I wouldn't, the responsibility for atrocities lies with those who directly ordered and committed them and them alone.

Anyway, this is going horribly OT and doesn't change the fact that this bill, even if it doesn't directly exclude any companies, doesn't do California's HSR project any favors. In this economic and political atmosphere it needs all the good press it can get, but the local politicians seem to want to do the opposite.
Apoc89 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 2nd, 2010, 01:17 AM   #1743
Ariel74
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Frankfurt am Main
Posts: 414
Likes (Received): 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apoc89 View Post
^

It's easy to talk about how terrible all the Germans were when you live in a relatively free society with access to near-unlimited media sources through the internet. In WW2-era Germany, where all Nazi atrocities such as the Holocaust were kept strictly quiet and the media was completely controlled by the state and pumping out propaganda 24/7, it's not difficult to see why people would not have even considered joining the military to be immoral. Neither you nor I are immune to the effects of living in such conditions. Also, the Allies committed plenty of atrocities, many of them government-sanctioned, would you blame every single Allied soldier for them as well? I wouldn't, the responsibility for atrocities lies with those who directly ordered and committed them and them alone.

Anyway, this is going horribly OT and doesn't change the fact that this bill, even if it doesn't directly exclude any companies, doesn't do California's HSR project any favors. In this economic and political atmosphere it needs all the good press it can get, but the local politicians seem to want to do the opposite.
Yes, we are going off-topic, and your mentioning of the Allies didn't help it either. The only point I was making is that it is outrageous to make the argument that since the Germans aren't complaining about their (grand-)parents' having to go through WWII, the Jews have no business complaining about their treatment in the WWII. That is what I call an outlandish, if not completely shameless argument.
Ariel74 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 2nd, 2010, 04:00 AM   #1744
miamipaintball
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 229
Likes (Received): 50

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariel74 View Post
That's the craziest thing I have heard for a long time.

The jews had no choice in their being gassed. Your german ancestors had the choice between doing an immoral thing on the one hand, and risking their lives for not following immoral orders, on the other. The right choice would have been the second of the two. That most germans didn't make the right choice only speaks against them, it doesn't make the right choice wrong, the wrong choice right. That the right choice was dangerous doesn't change these facts either.

Honestly, saying what you are saying, you've got no business staying in America.
sorry for going OT but..... anyways what someones generation did in the past shouldn't be on them, its about now and the future not the past, rail is needed simple the us has the worst transit system for a developed country, except the northeast which is really good on par with Europe.

what would you have done? die? lose generations of your family? tell me please. and my granpa didn't even kill jews he fought on the eastern front, the most brutal part of the European war. was captured by Russians and tortured/starved, cam back with stomach cancer, never complained, yea what happened to the jews is bad, but what about the 21 million who died under stalins rule, he killed millions of jews himself, what about the maybe half a million to a million Germans who were put in the death camps for "going against the goverment" to? what about the Japanese who killed millions of Chinese for social genocide aswell? i can go on and on, the jews weren't the only victims is all im saying, and i see your home town is frankfort, do you even know what happened after ww1? what the allies did to Germany? in the end war sucks, my grandparents lost half their family to the war.

Last edited by miamipaintball; September 2nd, 2010 at 04:12 AM.
miamipaintball no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 2nd, 2010, 04:46 AM   #1745
SamuraiBlue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,232
Likes (Received): 195

This law is turning CA local politicians into "PC Naked Kings" not daring to speak out against it fearing to be seen as a racist by their constituents.
SamuraiBlue no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 2nd, 2010, 06:24 AM   #1746
HyperMiler
BANNED
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 240
Likes (Received): 0

California holocaust law is spreading to Florida.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/09/0...t-answers.html

Quote:
Holocaust survivors want answers from bidder on Florida's high-speed rail

Associated Press

ORLANDO -- The French national railway is being scrutinized by Holocaust survivors for its involvement in transporting Jews and others to Nazi death camps during World War II. The company is bidding for the U.S.' first high-speed rail project in Florida.

Survivors plan to raise the issue Thursday when the Florida Department of Transportation holds a public meeting in Orlando on the $2.6 billion project. They are asking SNCF to formally apologize, give full access to its records and reparations.
HyperMiler no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 2nd, 2010, 06:53 AM   #1747
miamipaintball
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 229
Likes (Received): 50

Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperMiler View Post
California holocaust law is spreading to Florida.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/09/0...t-answers.html


so ridicules, like i said in my other post i would have an outburst, yeah it sucks what happened, but why should they apologize, they didnt do, and the older generations most likely had to because of the gestapo and SS

this only hampers the development of the US and further sliding it down the chain of developed countries. its about the future and the issues of todays world, not what happened decades ago
miamipaintball no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 2nd, 2010, 07:35 AM   #1748
K_
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,744
Likes (Received): 243

Quote:
Originally Posted by miamipaintball View Post
this only hampers the development of the US and further sliding it down the chain of developed countries. its about the future and the issues of todays world, not what happened decades ago
Indeed. Even Israel buys trains from Siemens. Why shouldn't the US because of what happend 70 years ago?

Last edited by K_; September 2nd, 2010 at 07:40 AM.
K_ no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 2nd, 2010, 07:41 AM   #1749
Svartmetall
Ordo Ab Chao
 
Svartmetall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Past: Northampton, UK (19 years), Auckland NZ (7 years), Now: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 14,074
Likes (Received): 8794

Quote:
Originally Posted by miamipaintball View Post
sorry for going OT but..... anyways what someones generation did in the past shouldn't be on them, its about now and the future not the past, rail is needed simple the us has the worst transit system for a developed country, except the northeast which is really good on par with Europe.
No, it doesn't. New Zealand does.
Svartmetall no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 2nd, 2010, 02:11 PM   #1750
miamipaintball
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 229
Likes (Received): 50

Quote:
Originally Posted by Svartmetall View Post
No, it doesn't. New Zealand does.
hmm did a quick Google search, it maybe sucks, but its an island what do you expect? cant really compare to japan, since japan is over populated. plus most major US cities have horrible PT especially from suburbs to the inercity. at least you have the most livable cities in the world.

but you still got these cute animals though


miamipaintball no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 2nd, 2010, 05:04 PM   #1751
HyperMiler
BANNED
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 240
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by miamipaintball View Post
what about the Japanese who killed millions of Chinese for social genocide as well?
JR East too must disclose the wartime transportation record of JGR if they wish to bid.

Observers in Japan are expecting JR East to not disclose and just skip California.
HyperMiler no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 2nd, 2010, 06:07 PM   #1752
SamuraiBlue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,232
Likes (Received): 195

Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperMiler View Post
JR East too must disclose the wartime transportation record of JGR if they wish to bid.

Observers in Japan are expecting JR East to not disclose and just skip California.
Uhh, most probably JR East would not hold any record of actual events since the change of entity through out the years.
They would probably not be able to defend, deny nor verify any fact which may appear during the screening process after submitting documents making this whole exercise meaningless, biased or both.
SamuraiBlue no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 3rd, 2010, 03:09 AM   #1753
endrity
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,494
Likes (Received): 720

Stupidity at its best, that's what these laws are. 70 years after WW2!!!!!!
endrity no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 3rd, 2010, 09:05 AM   #1754
mgk920
Nonhyphenated-American
 
mgk920's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Appleton, WI USA
Posts: 2,583
Likes (Received): 68

Quote:
Originally Posted by endrity View Post
Stupidity at its best, that's what these laws are. 70 years after WW2!!!!!!
Heck, there are some left-wing hotheads here in the USA who are demanding reparations for SLAVERY, which was outlawed nationwide in 1865. - that's 145 years ago!



Mike
mgk920 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 3rd, 2010, 05:30 PM   #1755
FlyFish
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 352
Likes (Received): 83

Lots of good (and some really shameless) stuff here, but the issue is political correctness run-amoke in the US.

We have groups in this Country whose only purpose in existence is to find something to be offended about and then run around blabbing to a willing and lapdog media in order to scare politicians into doing the what the little loud group wants just so they don't get called anything ending in "ist".

Last edited by FlyFish; September 3rd, 2010 at 05:53 PM.
FlyFish no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 3rd, 2010, 06:41 PM   #1756
nemu
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 292
Likes (Received): 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benn View Post
Sounds like a pretty damaging bill to everyone involved except Bombardier (I know most of the technology was adtranz, but most of our politicians aren't bright enough to look into it) and Rotem.....
.
Bombardier Transportation's HQ is in of all places, Berlin.

Also , if the bill is 'damaging' to the French, (who will argue that they are acting under duress from their occupational masters) the same could potentially apply to Korea.


At the end of the day, the bill is a complete farce and made for those still living in the stone ages.
nemu no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 5th, 2010, 02:10 AM   #1757
èđđeůx
Still Comin' Out Strong
 
èđđeůx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 15,695
Likes (Received): 1978

Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperMiler View Post
According to Japanese rightwingers(who were furious at this law), no.

Chinese government took over Manchurian Railway and Korean government took over Korea Railway constructed and operated by Imperial Japanese government post-war, so they too should be held accountable as much as JGR and its successor JR East are.
I'm sure it wouldn't matter. The Chinese bidders probably use technology given from the Japanese (that's if J-Rail companies had to transfer tech when operating in China), just upgraded. So in a way the Japanese bidders' trains will posibly be gliding across california.
__________________
Èddeůx »» *
èđđeůx no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 6th, 2010, 05:43 PM   #1758
èđđeůx
Still Comin' Out Strong
 
èđđeůx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 15,695
Likes (Received): 1978

Obama to Announce Transportation Infrastructure Fund
Quote:
President Barack Obama today will propose a six-year plan to rehabilitate the nation’s transportation infrastructure with an initial $50 billion to help spur an economy that’s lost jobs for three straight months.Obama will announce the program to fix the nation’s roads, railways and runways to union families at a Labor Day rally in Milwaukee scheduled for 3:10 p.m. New York time, the White House said in a statement.

Two months before congressional midterm elections, Obama will call for the formation of an “infrastructure bank” and request money to rebuild 150,000 miles (241,400 kilometers) of roads, construct and maintain 4,000 miles of rail, and overhaul 150 miles of runways, the statement said.

This plan would build on the investments we have already made under the Recovery Act, create jobs for American workers to strengthen our economy now, and increase our nation’s growth and productivity,” according to the statement.

The administration will work with Congress to ensure the plan is fully funded, and a “significant portion of the new investments would be front-loaded in the first year,” according to the statement.

Today’s remarks to members of the AFL-CIO, the largest U.S. labor federation, kick off a week in which Obama promote his economic agenda in two Midwest states where incumbent Democrats are in close contests.

Mixed Economy

Faced with the prospect of Democrats losing control of Congress in the November elections and a series of mixed economic reports, Obama will offer proposals that combine tax breaks and additional spending to help an economy that’s struggling to recover from the worst recession in more than six decades.

Last week’s jobs report showed that private payrolls climbed 67,000 in August, more than forecast, easing concerns that the world’s largest economy is sliding back into a recession. Even so, overall employment fell by 54,000 the unemployment rate rose to 9.6 percent from 9.5 percent as more people entered the labor force.

Later this week, the president will also urge Congress to permanently extend and expand a research-and-development tax credit for businesses, according to two administration officials. The plan, which he’ll announce in Cleveland Sept. 8, would cost about $100 billion over a decade.

Research Credit

Every president since Bill Clinton has backed a permanent extension of the research tax credit, which Congress only temporarily extends because of its high cost.

Obama’s proposals, many of which he has introduced before, will run up against a tight congressional calendar and election- year politics. The Senate is scheduled to return to Washington Sept. 13, and the House the next day. Lawmakers will be at work for about three weeks before leaving again to campaign.

The economic stimulus package approved last year allocated $38.6 billion for the Transportation Department and so far $18.5 billion has been paid out, according to a government website that tracks the spending.
The Milwaukee trip is Obama’s third visit to Wisconsin since June. The state’s unemployment rate, at 7.8 percent, is lower than the national average, even with pockets of greater economic stress, such as in the southern part of the state, where a General Motors Co. assembly plant closed in 2008.
Only $18.5 billion of the infra funding has been paid out?
Wonder what the rest of that $20 billion would do.
Anyways, good news. I was hoping that the $50 billion would go directly to rail, but at least its getting more than the miniscule $8 billion in the stimulus package.
__________________
Èddeůx »» *
èđđeůx no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 6th, 2010, 07:50 PM   #1759
Smooth Indian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 812
Likes (Received): 241

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariel74 View Post
That's the craziest thing I have heard for a long time.

The jews had no choice in their being gassed. Your german ancestors had the choice between doing an immoral thing on the one hand, and risking their lives for not following immoral orders, on the other. The right choice would have been the second of the two. That most germans didn't make the right choice only speaks against them, it doesn't make the right choice wrong, the wrong choice right. That the right choice was dangerous doesn't change these facts either.

Honestly, saying what you are saying, you've got no business staying in America.
BTW I am just curious. The law says that the companies bid for HSR contracts have to explain their role in the holocaust. But what is the purpose of that? Will it somehow set right injustices of the past? Also why is the holocaust the only important event? Surely there have been other ghastly events in history? Don't they need to be accounted as well? And What if in some of them the jews/israelis were the perpetuators? will that mean that is the basis for obstructing american economic ties with israel? Also how many people will think about the right and the wrong when they face the prospect of being killed in cold blood for doing the right thing?

Last edited by Smooth Indian; September 6th, 2010 at 07:56 PM.
Smooth Indian no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 6th, 2010, 09:34 PM   #1760
SpeedoPro
Registered User
 
SpeedoPro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 192
Likes (Received): 21

this bill sounds pretty ridiculous to me. shouldn't this law be applied to the auto industry too? while we are at it, why dont we ban all products made by any company that associated themselves with germany and japan during wwii?

this is about the hsr. let's select the most capable and fitting system for ca. i would crap myself if the chinese or the korean get selected..

Last edited by SpeedoPro; September 6th, 2010 at 10:14 PM.
SpeedoPro no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
amtrak, desertxpress, fly california, high speed rail, northeast corridor, texas triangle, united states

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 04:47 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium