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View Poll Results: Should the US build or improve it's HSR network?
Yes 249 89.57%
No 29 10.43%
Voters: 278. You may not vote on this poll

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Old September 16th, 2010, 11:09 AM   #1861
hans280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dl3000 View Post
I understand that you are comparing fiscal impacts of the two projects, but are you seriously going to insinuate that labor standards, environmental standards, and material costs are comparative between the two periods?
Well, prices have gone up between 1931 and today, but "only" by a factor 15. The Hoover Dam, in our days' money, cost 9 billion USD. That said, I'm not sure it makes sense to compare dams with railway lines. My hunch would be that railways generally cost more (perhaps not in 1931, but these days a major part of the cost is the electrical alimentation, and computerised communications and safety systems...) Does anybody have recent figures?

Let me also remind our "Amerrican brethren" that the largest federal spending on railways in US history was signed into law in the early 1860s by Abraham Lincoln. Surely we're not accusing Mr. Lincoln of being "anti-American"?
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Old September 16th, 2010, 12:10 PM   #1862
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Originally Posted by HyperMiler View Post
You and the Chinese do not understand the US and European intellectual property law then. What Chinese did is a derivative work on a prior art. Chinese modifications do not make Kawasaki's original art disappear or make it Chinese, it's still there and Chinese are infringing on Kawasaki's intellectual property under the US and EU intellectual property laws.
Perhaps you still cannot understand that US and European intellectual property law do not apply in this case. We are talking about indigenous Chinese designed trains here. The Chinese did gain experience with Kawasaki. But they then started their own indigenous design from scratch and that is why they can sell their own technology to whoever they want. The Chinese design has been tested extensively for speeds over 270km/h and crash situation.

Now you are claiming that the American IPR lawyer should have advised his Chinese client that they should seek a license. But are you a US lawyer yourself and have you looked at the CRH380 design in person at all? If you are not a lawyer and have not looked at the design, then your wild claims are totally baseless here.

Last edited by maldini; September 16th, 2010 at 12:18 PM.
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Old September 16th, 2010, 12:22 PM   #1863
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Originally Posted by The Chemist View Post
Your analogy assumes the only thing that was changed was the engine. If I take that civic and upgrade the brakes, the tires, the suspension, the aerodynamics, and increase the downforce, and run it on the smoothest race track designed for high speed driving available, as well as increasing the power, the original top speed would have little relevance to my new Civic, which I could now safely run at a much higher speed than 140mph thanks to my vast changes to the design and my use of the most advanced race track around.
Then your car is no longer a Honda Civic. It is a different car.
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Old September 16th, 2010, 12:25 PM   #1864
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Why do you bother arguing with that HyperMiler guy? You know the type: the Korean nationalist who claims Confucius was a Korean (reminds me of the claim that Jesus was black. Same kind of inferiority complex at work). No specification of the various versions of CRH380 has been made public, and now he already claims he knows how much of the components is Chinese and how much is foreign.

He's on my ignore list where he belongs. Wish he's on yours as well, so that I can be spared of reading him even in quotes
yeah, these Koreans claiming Confucius (and other famous Chinese persons) as Koreans is just hilarious and embarrassing for them.
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Old September 16th, 2010, 01:45 PM   #1865
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Originally Posted by The Chemist View Post
Your analogy assumes the only thing that was changed was the engine. If I take that civic and upgrade the brakes, the tires, the suspension, the aerodynamics, and increase the downforce, and run it on the smoothest race track designed for high speed driving available, as well as increasing the power, the original top speed would have little relevance to my new Civic, which I could now safely run at a much higher speed than 140mph thanks to my vast changes to the design and my use of the most advanced race track around.
While you're at it you'll need to change the gear box since the original gear box will probably not be able to transfer the extra power to the tires and if the power is twice the amount of the original then you'll need to change the power train altogether.

Amusing analogy as it is but one problem, there are no manufacturers that sales stand alone engines and even if there is one, the possibility of it fitting into the engine room is slim. Another problem in real life situation is that the chassis would probably not maintain integrity with the added power.

Cars, train, power driven vehicle all require the balance of chassis, engine, and brakes to maintain it's expected lifetime.
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Old September 16th, 2010, 05:04 PM   #1866
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maldini View Post
yeah, these Koreans claiming Confucius (and other famous Chinese persons) as Koreans is just hilarious and embarrassing for them.
Just to remind you that these accusations were fabricated by the qinese themselves at a time when qinese historians and the qcp were distorting Korean history claiming Koguryo was qinese in an attempt to steal other countries' sovereignty and if possible N. Korea, just to be at even stand and be able to reciprocate accusations. And how qinese feel good about themselves when they are able to do so.

Last edited by kominam; September 16th, 2010 at 06:10 PM.
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Old September 16th, 2010, 05:04 PM   #1867
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Originally Posted by maldini View Post
Then your car is no longer a Honda Civic. It is a different car.
Indeed.

What the Chinese did to the Kawasaki design to make the CRH2/CRH380 is probably akin to what Ruf Automobile did to the Porsche 911 to make it into the Ruf CTR2 (which was so changed in all respects from the original Porsche design that it wasn't even sold as a Porsche anymore).
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Old September 16th, 2010, 05:52 PM   #1868
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Originally Posted by BarbaricManchurian View Post
China has the best HSR in the world. This is an undeniable fact.
I wouldn't say so. We may have the longest HSR network, but there is not much original technology involved. The tracks are amazing and the modification of the locomotives is impressive, but that is not enough. Let's focus on China's ability to build High-speed railways really fast with relatively low cost, after all the biggest challenge to US HSR is the funding. I can't wait to see a fully Chinese designed high-speed train but it is not going to happen soon. If we can't develop more technologies, what are we going to do after the current ones are outdated? Buy new technologies again?

The experience I had when riding the Amtrak trains was pretty good, the only problem is, too slow.....
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Old September 16th, 2010, 05:57 PM   #1869
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Originally Posted by fragel View Post
I wouldn't say so. We may have the longest HSR network, but there is not much original technology involved. The tracks are amazing and the modification of the locomotives is impressive, but that is not enough. Let's focus on China's ability to build High-speed railways really fast with relatively low cost, after all the biggest challenge to US HSR is the funding. I can't wait to see a fully Chinese designed high-speed train but it is not going to happen soon. If we can't develop more technologies, what are we going to do after the current ones are outdated? Buy new technologies again?

The experience I had when riding the Amtrak trains was pretty good, the only problem is, too slow.....

Well china is already developing its high speed rail technology. You can see the 380km/h trains.
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Old September 16th, 2010, 06:24 PM   #1870
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Originally Posted by foxmulder View Post
Well china is already developing its high speed rail technology. You can see the 380km/h trains.
Ok, I admit I am more than greedy I would really like to see a Chinese big name like Siemens or Bombardier, hope oneday both China South Locomotive & Rolling and China North Locomotive & Rolling can compete with the current market leaders.
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Old September 16th, 2010, 06:47 PM   #1871
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Originally Posted by Smooth Indian View Post
Even the Maglev is actually German. It was designed by transrapid.
You do understand there are high-speed maglev and low-speed maglev, don't you? And you do understand he is talking about Maglev trains (in this case high speed Maglev trains) rather than the Shanghai Maglev line built with German technology?
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Old September 17th, 2010, 05:57 AM   #1872
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I was referring to the Shanghai Maglev. I though Beijing Maglev was shelved because of high cost and public concern over safety.

Sorry for going a little off topic here, but generally i do agree with your point of indigenous vs foreign technology
What a clown. You don't even have any clue what Beijing Maglev is, and yet you can comment based on your ignorance.
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Old September 17th, 2010, 04:04 PM   #1873
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As far as I know California has already secured 2.5 billion from federal government for the high speed rail. That is more than enough for feasibility studies. It also proves there is a high chance of this thing being built. If the biggest concern is the price, China has a real chance. Technology transfer will not be a problem for any of the bidders since all of them willing to do so. I think it will be between Germany, Japan and China. I dont think Italy, France or Korea can pull this thing. My odds:

Germany=Japan=China>France>Korea>Italy
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Old September 17th, 2010, 05:50 PM   #1874
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I think the whole project won't happen until a long long time.
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Old September 17th, 2010, 09:10 PM   #1875
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I think the lack of tweets from Arnie could just be to do with the incompatibility of the Japanese mobile phone system with the rest of the world. I believe unless you have a Japanese phone it simply won't work.
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Old September 17th, 2010, 09:45 PM   #1876
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I think the lack of tweets from Arnie could just be to do with the incompatibility of the Japanese mobile phone system with the rest of the world. I believe unless you have a Japanese phone it simply won't work.
Arnold still tweeted about other stuffs from Japan, like meeting Tokyo governor and ministers, but didn't tweet anything about his Shinkansen ride. Arnie's Shinkansen ride may have been underwhelming because it ran at 110 km/hr or something like that, so nothing memorable to speak about.
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Old September 17th, 2010, 10:05 PM   #1877
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I think the whole project won't happen until a long long time.
The Northeast Core High Speed Network will be done before this.....
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Old September 17th, 2010, 10:50 PM   #1878
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Yeah the only place you'll probably see HSR in the US is in the east coast. Look at the San Francisco Oakland Bay Bridge construction. Should've been done by now and is going to cost multiple times more than originally estimated simply because of all the bureaucracy that California is known for. What HSR will turn out to be is a big pricey white elephant.

Last edited by Bandit; September 17th, 2010 at 10:56 PM.
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Old September 18th, 2010, 12:19 AM   #1879
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Originally Posted by HyperMiler View Post
Germany : The Original Nazis.
Japan : Abused US and allied POWs during WWII.
China : Human rights abuser. Doesn't own the technology they are trying to sell.
I think no country should give the US HSR technology because of all the illegal wars, oil wars, war crimes, tortures, coup d'etat in other countries, invasions, non respect of International Laws, spying, bombing civilians with nuclear and bacteriological weapons (weapons of mass destruction), napalm, industrial spying that the US has been doing/is still doing around the world!
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Old September 18th, 2010, 12:53 AM   #1880
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Isn't this thread about US HSR? Not China Vs. Korea, etc.
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