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View Poll Results: Should the US build or improve it's HSR network?
Yes 249 89.57%
No 29 10.43%
Voters: 278. You may not vote on this poll

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Old September 18th, 2010, 03:00 AM   #1881
Micrav
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So if you don't want Korean, Japanese, German, what do you want. French Alstom 350 km/h? Canadian Bombardier 360 km/h? Korean took their technology from the TGV of Alstom under a bad deal. Chinese took the technology from The Germans under a bad deal. I was amazed that the Koreans dared to apply for a tender in Brazil with their copy of Alstom first generation TGV. But hey, who did the bad deal here? America stopped developping railway material too long time ago. Therefore we alway say that America is under drug of petrol, us too, but not as deep as Uncle Sam... If I would caricature, I would say, the only thing that is green in America is the dollar... (untrue because the country is beautiful to see), but there is a part of truth in my sentence... I hope America would be able to develop new own technologies from scratch, start from white page to build new trains... And why not? Lacking smart people? Lacking engineers? Kennedy has sent men to the moon in less than 10 years... Not because it was easy, but because it was hard!
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Old September 18th, 2010, 03:53 AM   #1882
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Quote:
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I was amazed that the Koreans dared to apply for a tender in Brazil with their copy of Alstom first generation TGV.
And don't forget Florida and California too. Rotem will keep bidding on US HSR projects with KTX-II, and Alstom won't sue them in the US. Why? Because there is nothing to sue Rotem on. Alstom suing Rotem is like Boeing suing Airbus for designing planes that are similar-looking to Boeing. Do Airbus planes look similar to Boeing's? Yes. Are they related? No. Would Boeing be able to win in court by suing Airbus for IPR infringement? Nope. This is why Alstom whose CEO called out for a world-wide ban on Chinese train export for IPR infringement remains silent on KTX-II even in the US, because Alstom suing Rotem is like Boeing suing Airbus for IPR infringement. Rotem learned from Alstom the art of bullet train engineering, then went onto design its own one from scratch over the course of 11 years, fixing most of TGV's design errors in the process.

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I hope America would be able to develop new own technologies from scratch.
Actually the US bullet train project by former Project Constellation(The new moon rocket that Obama killed) engineers is based on KTX-II. Rotem's IPR on KTX-II even passes US government agency's standard too. http://www.sunshinestatenews.com/sto...ean-government

Last edited by HyperMiler; September 18th, 2010 at 04:05 AM.
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Old September 29th, 2010, 11:30 AM   #1883
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Amtrak's unveils a 117 Billion $$ Bos-Wash Corridor High Speed Rail Network expansion by 2040





&

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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100928/...mtrak_s_future

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en...6fa9f0421a&z=6
This with the combination of the 2030 Amtrak Northeast Upgrading and Expansion plan will put the Northeast back on the map. Also in addition with the planned 4-6,000 miles of restored and New Commuter Rail lines in New Jersey , New York , Pennsylvania , Delaware , Rhode Island , Massachusetts , New Hampshire , Maine , Vermont , Virgina , Maryland and DC.
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Old September 29th, 2010, 11:42 AM   #1884
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Getting the land for it would be hell.
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Old September 29th, 2010, 12:04 PM   #1885
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Getting the land for it would be hell.
I bet there would be so many delays that most of us would never see it complete.
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Old September 29th, 2010, 01:13 PM   #1886
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Most of this plan will use existing Railways like the Harlem line and NEC and Interstate ROW.
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Old September 29th, 2010, 01:22 PM   #1887
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The general specs for Interstates wouldn't allow, at least in the present form, enough curve radius (let alone vertical gradients if that is the case) required for 300km/h tracks. Are they coming with new technology for the new lines, like maglev?
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Old September 29th, 2010, 02:03 PM   #1888
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It'll never happen.
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Old September 29th, 2010, 02:27 PM   #1889
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The general specs for Interstates wouldn't allow, at least in the present form, enough curve radius (let alone vertical gradients if that is the case) required for 300km/h tracks. Are they coming with new technology for the new lines, like maglev?
Some Interstates can handle HSR , some can't , it varies. There is so much unused ROW here in the NE they can use , but most of that will be restored Commuter Rail. Its Regular HSR , this plan involves alot of Tunnels under Philly , NYC , Baltimore and Boston.

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It'll never happen.
Why not? If a 17 billion $$ new Subway line can be built a New HSR Network can.
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Old September 29th, 2010, 02:39 PM   #1890
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Why not? If a 17 billion $$ new Subway line can be built a New HSR Network can.
I highly doubt this new network will be build this century let alone in 2040. The US has so much debt that there will never be 117B for this project. I do not see the private sector interested in this line because most rail networks have a difficult time producing profits. The US is not China where a comparable northeast line is built in 3 years ie. Gaungzhou-Wuhan HSR line.

In 30 years; we will be hoping for this line just has CA and NV residents have been hoping for the HSR network from LA to LA Vegas. IMO, that line has a higher probability to be built than this Northeast one because it is in NV best interest to have the line for easier access to Las Vegas for Southern CA residents.
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Old September 29th, 2010, 02:51 PM   #1891
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I don't really think its going to cost 117 Billion $$ , more like 45-50 Billion $$. However all the planned Restored and Expanded Commuter Rail and Urban Rail lines will cost between 50-200 billion $$$. The 6,000 miles of restored commuter and Urban Rail usually will happen , most of it is cheap. The Urban Rail is more expensive , but i do see something like this being built in the Bos-Wash Corridor.
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Old September 29th, 2010, 05:39 PM   #1892
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Quote:
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I don't really think its going to cost 117 Billion $$ , more like 45-50 Billion $$. However all the planned Restored and Expanded Commuter Rail and Urban Rail lines will cost between 50-200 billion $$$. The 6,000 miles of restored commuter and Urban Rail usually will happen , most of it is cheap. The Urban Rail is more expensive , but i do see something like this being built in the Bos-Wash Corridor.
We're talking 2040 here. Trying to predict the cost of anything at all related to a project like this over such a long timeframe - the land costs, cost of technology, value of the dollar itself - that's practically science fiction.
It's like someone from 1980 trying to predict how many DMarken a new 21st Century station for Stuttgart might cost.

I think it's a cool plan, and I suppose we could talk a lot about the feasibility of it, but anything at all regarding the price tag - that's just fiction, nothing more.
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Old September 29th, 2010, 08:51 PM   #1893
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
The general specs for Interstates wouldn't allow, at least in the present form, enough curve radius (let alone vertical gradients if that is the case) required for 300km/h tracks. Are they coming with new technology for the new lines, like maglev?
My belief is that this will be conventional steel wheel/steel rail. Some of the I-routes on the NYC-BOS part are remarkably straight, too (I have driven all of the ones along the shown corridor), although such a line will require extensive tunneling and viaduct bridging, including the parts built along the I-routes (I-684, I-84 and I-95). Remember, for example, that many of the new true HSR routes in Germany are built roughly following autobahns and that they, too, require extensive tunneling and viaduct bridging. One interesting part, they can easily make use of I-95's median from the Foxboro, MA area to MA 128/I-93 and much of the unbuilt I-95 corridor from there almost to South Station.

Also, is developing a direct through connection between Boston South Station and Boston North Station part of these proposals?

Mike
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Old September 30th, 2010, 06:46 AM   #1894
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Yeah, maybe the US could get some advice from JR Central, SNCF or DB on how to make railway networks.
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Old September 30th, 2010, 07:05 AM   #1895
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meh..., what a waste of money, especially when we can't afford it...
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Old September 30th, 2010, 07:15 AM   #1896
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never gonna be built, they should focus more on upgrading the Northeast Corridor to 250-300km/h in all sections
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Old September 30th, 2010, 07:15 AM   #1897
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The biggest problem with this plan isn't the cost (since it would take a long time to build and is developed through 3 decades), it is the fact that there are so much NIMBYs in the way. I don't think it'll even be easy to get this thing through Connecticut, let alone the entire thing.

But at least the government is starting to be serious for HSR in the place that it would work best!
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Old September 30th, 2010, 07:36 AM   #1898
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I would rather see us upgrade local airports and promote air taxis; you wouldn't really need to worry about NIBYs and the cost would most likely be signifigantly lower.
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Old September 30th, 2010, 08:06 AM   #1899
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Actually there are a lot of NIMBYs in what you are proposing as well.

Upgrading local airports can get in messy disputes with local businesses and communities, and encouraging more air travel would make environmental groups and regulations cry foul. Moreover more airplanes in the sky would also make things worse for our already overworked air traffic controllers (especially in the NE corridor which is just SWAMPED with it and problems arisen heavily).

Moreover when it comes to dealing with infrastructure, the optimal situation isn't finding the CHEAPEST solution, it's finding the most cost-effective with the best end-result. Investing in our woefully underutilized rail system which already has most of the infrastructure already is around means less oil-dependency, a diversification of nodes, and alternatives. Nobody these days except for highly-paid professionals would take air-taxis from NY to Boston or DC.

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Old September 30th, 2010, 08:24 AM   #1900
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How the heck is it projected to cost $117 billion? China's entire HSR network by 2020, which has 16,000 km of track and dozens of new stations, is projected to cost just over twice that amount, $300 billion. Is Amtrack going to build new stations?
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