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Old September 6th, 2014, 05:08 AM   #261
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Once the North West Rail Line is up and running Sydney will finally have a world class piece of public transport infrastructure.
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Old September 7th, 2014, 12:43 PM   #262
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These are really ******* stupid...
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Old September 7th, 2014, 01:25 PM   #263
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Once the North West Rail Line is up and running Sydney will finally have a world class piece of public transport infrastructure.
Really? One that ends at Chatswood where people will need to transfer to heavy rail to get to the City. (or transfer at Epping onto heavy rail).

World class would have been just keep it part of Cityrail and through run to the city and keep metro to the inner city areas where it belongs and is needed.
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Old September 7th, 2014, 01:32 PM   #264
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Indeed. I never quite understood the rationale for not converting highly trafficked CityRail lines to full metro operation and then having a unified system with the NWRL.
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Old September 7th, 2014, 07:02 PM   #265
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Indeed. I never quite understood the rationale for not converting highly trafficked CityRail lines to full metro operation and then having a unified system with the NWRL.
This project is about being able to do that. Once it is linked up across the harbour with the Bankstown and Hurstville lines they should be able to increase capacity on the rest of the network (ie. Inner West line to 20tph). The second harbour crossing needs to be built for this to work though - arguably it should have been done first.

Many in Ozscrapers say that this project is more of a political solution. Cityrail had become a rotten brand in the eyes of Sydneysiders so this is more about bypassing that legacy organisation with it's stagnant culture, ineptitude and strong union hold. By building a privately operated driverless metro and then further converting existing lines they can bypass all this. Make of it what you will.

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Old September 8th, 2014, 12:56 PM   #266
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From Railway Gazette:

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http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/u...rail-link.html

Tunnelling starts on Sydney's North West Rail Link
08 Sep 2014



AUSTRALIA: Tunnelling for Sydney’s North West Rail Link started on September 8 with a ceremony in Bella Vista.

Elizabeth is the first of four hard rock tunnel boring machines delivered by NFM Technologies. The 120 m long, 6·99 m diameter TBM was assembled at Bella Vista over the past seven weeks, and will be joined by three more.

‘The North West Rail Link has been a top priority for this Government and I am pleased to announce today that the next two tunnel boring machines are also expected to be in the ground before the end of this year, ahead of schedule’, said NSW Minister for Transport Gladys Berejiklian

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Old September 9th, 2014, 02:14 PM   #267
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This project is about being able to do that. Once it is linked up across the harbour with the Bankstown and Hurstville lines they should be able to increase capacity on the rest of the network (ie. Inner West line to 20tph). The second harbour crossing needs to be built for this to work though - arguably it should have been done first.

Many in Ozscrapers say that this project is more of a political solution. Cityrail had become a rotten brand in the eyes of Sydneysiders so this is more about bypassing that legacy organisation with it's stagnant culture, ineptitude and strong union hold. By building a privately operated driverless metro and then further converting existing lines they can bypass all this. Make of it what you will.
Isn't the second harbour crossing completely dependent on whether the Government can sell off public assets though? It could be decades before it happens, even though it was needed two decades ago.
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Old September 10th, 2014, 10:02 PM   #268
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Isn't the second harbour crossing completely dependent on whether the Government can sell off public assets though? It could be decades before it happens, even though it was needed two decades ago.
Yes. They are seeking a mandate for this at March 2015 state election and are aiming to start construction within 2 to 3 years from now. This infrastructure is all late but we have an ambitious transport minister who so far has a very good record.
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Old September 11th, 2014, 12:28 AM   #269
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CBD and South East Light Rail

The video I posted on the previous page that was deleted by the owner has resurfaced on Youtube. Pretty much a render of the entire line.

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Old September 12th, 2014, 11:46 AM   #270
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Really? One that ends at Chatswood where people will need to transfer to heavy rail to get to the City. (or transfer at Epping onto heavy rail).

World class would have been just keep it part of Cityrail and through run to the city and keep metro to the inner city areas where it belongs and is needed.

There's a plan here in Sydney to add a second harbour rail crossing under the harbour.

This new second crossing will ultimately connect the the north west rail line taking commuter right into the heart of the city with out having to get off their asses.

Epping to Chatswood will be closed while the heavy line is converted to world class fully automated metro.

In most global cities around the world people can expect to change train at least once.

This project is only stage one of a new rail system that will end in the south west of the city in decades to come.

Got to start somewhere.
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Old September 13th, 2014, 12:07 PM   #271
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There's a plan here in Sydney to add a second harbour rail crossing under the harbour.

This new second crossing will ultimately connect the the north west rail line taking commuter right into the heart of the city with out having to get off their asses.

Epping to Chatswood will be closed while the heavy line is converted to world class fully automated metro.

In most global cities around the world people can expect to change train at least once.

This project is only stage one of a new rail system that will end in the south west of the city in decades to come.

Got to start somewhere.
Right gotta start somewhere, but this is not the route. This is the kind of route where heavy rail is what is needed. Be buggered being on a metro train for a 40km journey. Even in London the longer routes, such as the metropolitan line have trains that are more heavy rail than metro such as planned for this route.

There is plenty of Sydney that could do with a metro, the Eastern and inner western suburbs being prime examples, and maybe even out to the Northern Beaches. But this route, especially as 2/3rds of it are already build as heavy rail is really short sighted.
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Old September 14th, 2014, 12:12 PM   #272
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Right gotta start somewhere, but this is not the route. This is the kind of route where heavy rail is what is needed. Be buggered being on a metro train for a 40km journey. Even in London the longer routes, such as the metropolitan line have trains that are more heavy rail than metro such as planned for this route.

There is plenty of Sydney that could do with a metro, the Eastern and inner western suburbs being prime examples, and maybe even out to the Northern Beaches. But this route, especially as 2/3rds of it are already build as heavy rail is really short sighted.
Not really, it's a great vision for the PT future of Sydney has been lacking for a couple of decades now, this is only stage one of that vision.

By world standards 37km for the North West Rapid transit Stage 1 is rather modest.

London Underground have some of the longest lines in the world, Central line length 74km, 'Piccadilly line length 71km, District line length 64km.

Then there's Tokyo Japan with Japan Railway East, Takasaki line length 74km, Musashino line length 100km.

Why do these lines have to be built short and near the beach side suburbs or the inner west?

At the moment trams are proposed for the inner west and eastern suburbs in Sydney.
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Old September 14th, 2014, 02:23 PM   #273
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JR East is a commuter rail service, not a "European styled metro". The Musashino line is definitely not used for long distance travel on the whole - it's a circular ring line around the outside of Tokyo, so end to end is not used despite its length. It's usually used for shorter journeys. The Takasaki line is actually more of an intercity line (or at least it would be regarded so in Europe) given that Takasaki is actually a stand-alone city in Gunma. The distance of Takasaki from Tokyo means that Shinkansen commuting is an option for time saving given it is on the Shinkansen lines (Joetsu and Nagano). Plus, you're comparing a metropolitan area of 35 million people to one of 5 million, so of course line lengths, even in a dense city like Tokyo, are going to be longer. If you had used the Chuo Rapid line as a more appropriate example (going from Takao to Tokyo Station) then that is 53.1km. However, that is also a bit misleading as again, these trains are not dimensioned like a standard metro train - the E233 series are actually incredibly comfortable. Plus, given it is a "rapid" service, it is a skip-stop service with the Commuter Special Rapid only making 9 stops on its entire length, thus making it less like an all stops metro. As you know many JR lines (and private lines) are skip-stop services so commuters don't have stop-start for 50+ km - the Takasaki line is like this too. This speeds things up for commuters immensely so the line length is only one metric to use in this comparison.

Those lines in London are "pass through" lines. So half of the Central Line length lies on one side of London, and the other half passes through the other side, so in reality the longest journey one should do to get to central London (and the end stations tend to have National Rail links too, like West Ruislip, so there are other options beyond the tube). No one is going to travel from West Ruislip to Epping. Same goes for the Picc line and District line too - they are "through" lines, so for your comparison to work, you'd have to take the North Western Metro and trace a line through Sydney and back out to Liverpool station and say "that's the line length".

So no, unless the NW metro is going to be skip-stop services and complex service patterns to make up for its length, then actually 37km by a metro to the centre of the city is actually quite long.
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Old September 14th, 2014, 02:51 PM   #274
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Right gotta start somewhere, but this is not the route. This is the kind of route where heavy rail is what is needed. Be buggered being on a metro train for a 40km journey. Even in London the longer routes, such as the metropolitan line have trains that are more heavy rail than metro such as planned for this route.

There is plenty of Sydney that could do with a metro, the Eastern and inner western suburbs being prime examples, and maybe even out to the Northern Beaches. But this route, especially as 2/3rds of it are already build as heavy rail is really short sighted.
From what I understand, the seating configuration is going to be more like the Munich U-bahn trains with quite an amount of standing space near the doors. I've been guilty of calling it a 'metro' but the government is using the term 'rapid transit' perhaps to differentiate it from an MTR or Underground style seating configuration. The seating configuration is going to be tailored for long distance services. This isn't your average suburban line either - many passengers are going to disembark before Chatswood.

From the NWRL website:
Rapid transit systems like the North West Rail Link are best suited for lines where customers get on and off at various locations – in this region, workers travel to Castle Hill, Norwest, Epping, Macquarie University and Macquarie Park. A third of people using the North West Rail Link will be getting off the train before Chatswood. With a train every five minutes during the peak, the North West Rail Link will triple the frequency of services on the rail line between Epping and Chatswood...

Another issue is that if they were to extend the current double deck system, the tunnels and stations would be required to be twice as deep due to the need to cross the harbour. Having stations closer to the surface means it will be cheaper and less complex to build. For some stations, escalators wouldn't even be an option.

I'd definitely disagree with calling it short sighted, once this line passes through the CBD, we will be thankful that the ridiculous dwell times that plague the current CBD stations won't be seen here. Even more so when they convert some of the current inner city lines.

Last edited by mw123; September 14th, 2014 at 03:06 PM.
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Old September 14th, 2014, 03:06 PM   #275
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Be aware that the Munich U-bahn C wagons offer both longitudinal and transverse seating. That picture only shows part of the story. Really nice trains, though. I was there recently, and their U-bahn is the best in Europe that I've been on so far. But bear in mind that the Munich U-bahn is again a short line system (with the longest through line being U6 clocking in at under 30km for the entire through-city length). The system there is supplemented by the S-bahn which fulfils longer distance travel as a commuter rail system so that journeys by the U-bahn are not excessively long.
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Old September 15th, 2014, 03:43 AM   #276
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Not really, it's a great vision for the PT future of Sydney has been lacking for a couple of decades now, this is only stage one of that vision.

By world standards 37km for the North West Rapid transit Stage 1 is rather modest.

London Underground have some of the longest lines in the world, Central line length 74km, 'Piccadilly line length 71km, District line length 64km.
Thought someone would say that. But of course irrelevant for a couple of reasons.

Firstly you seem to have just gone to Wiki and got the total line length, never mind of course all 3 lines you mention have at least one branch line, which increases the line mileage, but doesn't necessarily increase the distance one travels or the end to end distance of the lines.

For example it would be rare for someone to travel regularly from Upminster to anywhere beyond about Victoria, a distance of about 25miles as the crow flies so about the same as the Sydney CBR to Kellyville. Though you do realise that the District line is closer to heavy rail than it is to metro? Same with the Metropolitan line in London too.

Secondly very few would, on a regular basis travel end to end on any of these lines. Whereas the NWRL is the kind of line where people will go point to point from the ends to the City. Well point to a 3rd party point (Chatswood) before then getting on another train to finish of the journey.

All could be simply avoided by making this a full heavy rail line and extend existing Chatswood to Epping services westwards, and then adding a new metro line from Chatswood through to City and beyond. Basically keep metro to the area bounded by by the A3 road which is where it belongs in a place like Sydney.
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Old September 15th, 2014, 07:23 PM   #277
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People keep bringing up the fact that the sub-surface lines are closer to heavy rail than Metro - could you clarify what you mean? Ie, rolling stock, seating layout, frequency, etc?

The reason I ask is that in all of the 3D visualisations, the NWRL has used a vehicle that resembles the Siemens stock used in Melbourne, in both size and appearance.

I guess what I'm asking, is what justifies the delineation between "metro" and "heavy rail"?
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Old September 15th, 2014, 08:00 PM   #278
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Well, the tube is quite a unique metro. The deep bore "tubes" are smaller, more cramped, run more frequently (overall) and don't generally interline (IE no branches). The London sub-surface lines are more capacious, built for longer journeys, the lines often have multiple branches (especially the district line) and as such they are quite distinct from the deep bore tubes.

Now on to the next part... The NWRL is said to be run at massively high frequencies (over those provided currently by CityRail) into an area that is nothing but sprawl. If, instead of all-stop metro service, a slightly less frequent service using skip-stop/local mixture suburban rail had been used, then it would make a lot more sense as that would give better patterns for commuters (quicker journeys on skip-stop services and proper integration with the rest of the network). Servicing low-density sprawl with a very long metro-styled line with high frequency seems incredibly wasteful to outsiders, though really the whole Sydney network is a bit topsy-turvy. In reality, it should be more like Munich, Stockholm (and many others) where the suburban rail is less frequent, branched and travels a long way out of the city with the city and dense inner suburbs being served by a true metro network at high frequency and capacity.
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Old September 16th, 2014, 06:16 AM   #279
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I think it hasn't been brought up that the areas are all slated for high density development. It was almost a condition that if this was built, areas around all of the stations will be intensively developed. Chatswood, North Ryde, Macquarie Park, Macquarie Uni and Castle Hill in particular. Macquarie Park is also set to become the second biggest employment centre in Sydney. They've announced just today that the trains will run every 10mins outside peak and every 4mins during the peak - so it's certainly not an intense metro frequency.

Anyway speaking of the trains themselves.

Sydney's new train unveiled as $3.7 billion North West Rail Link operations contract signed

NSW Premier Mike Baird and Minister for Transport Gladys Berejiklian today announced Sydney’s brand new rapid transit trains will run every four minutes during the peak on the North West Rail Link as part of a $3.7 billion contract just signed by the NSW Government.

Mr Baird said the North West Rail Link will take customer service and safety to a whole new level – bringing a world-class rapid transit rail service to Australia for the first time.

“Services on the North West Rail Link will start in the first half of 2019 with 15 trains an hour during the peak and 98 per cent on-time running – a much higher level of customer service than we first expected and an outstanding outcome for customers,” Mr Baird said.

“The NSW Government promised 12 trains an hour but we’ll be able to start with 15 trains an hour in the peak – with significant room to grow as the North West’s population increases over coming decades.”

The North West Rail Link will be Australia’s first fully-automated rapid transit rail network, delivering eight new railway stations, 4,000 commuter car parking spaces and five existing railway stations upgraded to rapid transit status.

The Public Private Partnership is the largest ever awarded in NSW and will see the Northwest Rapid Transit consortium deliver the North West Rail Link by the first half of 2019 and operate it for 15 years.

Ms Berejiklian said the contract just signed means Sydney’s new trains will be built by international train supplier Alstom who make rapid transit trains operating around the world in cities like Singapore, Hong Kong, Milan and Amsterdam.

“This project will transform and modernise public transport in Sydney forever. With tunnelling now underway and a contract signed to operate the rail network – the NSW Government is well and truly delivering,” she said.

“The country’s first new fully-automated rapid transit trains are being designed to meet the needs of Sydney.

“Our customers tell us that frequency of services is one of the most important factors when travelling on public transport – on the North West Rail Link, you won’t need a timetable, you’ll just turn up and go.

“At the start of operations, the North West Rail Link will use six-carriage trains, however more carriages and trains can be added as demand increases, with the platforms to be built long enough for eight-carriage trains.

“We’re working to fine-tune the seating configuration, but there will be plenty of seats as well as brand new innovations like multi-purpose areas for prams and luggage.

“There will also be customer service assistants at every station and they’ll also be moving through the network during the day and night.

“If we receive a mandate next March, the Rapid Transit network will be extended through the CBD and west to Bankstown, giving public transport customers right across Sydney access to fast, reliable and modern turn-up-and-go services.”

The Northwest Rapid Transit consortium is made up of MTR Corporation (Australia), John Holland, Leighton Contractors, UGL Rail Services and Plenary Group.
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Old September 16th, 2014, 06:30 AM   #280
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http://nwrail.transport.nsw.gov.au/


http://nwrail.transport.nsw.gov.au/

Interior pics



http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/new...-1227060177363

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