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Old December 8th, 2008, 12:14 AM   #61
Falubaz
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Show us some busways in Sydney! please
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Old December 8th, 2008, 03:24 AM   #62
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Most of my picture-taking was around Circular Quay, where many buses are parked. I don't think I have pictures of the busways (I believe one of them is along Anzac Parade).
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Old December 8th, 2008, 03:45 AM   #63
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Yes there is a busway along the side of Anzac Parade. Circular Quay and Elizabeth Street are extremely busy areas when it comes to the number of buses, and it seems like you've taken a fair number of pictures around there.
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Old December 8th, 2008, 11:21 AM   #64
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Buses in Sydney are terrible

Lots and lots of old models driving around that other cities would have relegated to school trips and low-patronage outer suburban routes years ago.

The city's public transport network is struggling to cope.
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Old December 8th, 2008, 03:44 PM   #65
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on that one bus says Prepay Only 333
what does that mean?
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Old December 8th, 2008, 04:19 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJZG View Post
on that one bus says Prepay Only 333
what does that mean?
You have a to buy a ticket in advance before boarding. For the other routes, you can purchase on-board and drivers will provide change.
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Old December 9th, 2008, 06:26 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by city_thing View Post
Buses in Sydney are terrible

Lots and lots of old models driving around that other cities would have relegated to school trips and low-patronage outer suburban routes years ago.

The city's public transport network is struggling to cope.
Perhaps as a resident in Melbourne you can tell me why the buses in Sydney and Melbourne are rather terrible compared to Brisbane for example?

I know that Melbourne in particular focuses more on rail based transit, but buses are still necessary!

Oh, and great photos HKSkyline!
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Old December 9th, 2008, 09:30 AM   #68
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I'm not entirely sure Svart - perhaps because smaller cities (like Perth and Brisbane, which have much more modern fleets) aren't quite as rail focused. They have smaller networks, so therefore they rely on buses more?

That could be the reason, but I think the real factor is that both cities privatised their bus services to a certain extent. Melbourne seems to have hundreds of different companies running at-loss services, with nice Government subsidies providing a profit.

I know Sydney does have a number of private operators, but I'm not sure of the extent. It's supposedly the reason why SYD is having so much problems implementing their smart ticketing system (the T-Card) - everyone wants a say in how it will run. However, the bus networks of Perth and Brisbane are still Government owned.

There should be a thread in the Ozscrapers transport thread - they guys in there will probably be able to help you more than I can
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Old December 9th, 2008, 11:08 AM   #69
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I imagine that's definitely it. The arguments for privatisation kind of fall over when the subsidising government carries all the risk anyway. It must be pretty cruisy running a bus service knowing that if you mess it up to the point that you can't make money out of anymore, you can always just go crying to the local government and they'll bail you out. A guaranteed money-spinner surely.
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Old December 9th, 2008, 11:15 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falubaz View Post
Show us some busways in Sydney
No, please don't, coz that'd just be showing de-cultured ways -- limit the shots to bus-only streets, if ya must...



Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
I don't think I have pictures of the busways
Good.
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Old December 10th, 2008, 07:42 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jarbury View Post
I imagine that's definitely it. The arguments for privatisation kind of fall over when the subsidising government carries all the risk anyway. It must be pretty cruisy running a bus service knowing that if you mess it up to the point that you can't make money out of anymore, you can always just go crying to the local government and they'll bail you out. A guaranteed money-spinner surely.
Am glad to see my incoherent points made sense to someone!

As far as I know, Sydney and Melbourne are kinda in the same boat in regards to bus networks. Melbourne seems to have about 20 different companies, all focused on small areas so there's no 'city wide integration' with them aside from a few cross-city routes. I just briefly glanced at Wiki and apparently Melbourne's never had any Government bus authorities at all, so I guess it's always been like this (whereas Perth for example, has its buses coming under Transperth which also runs the trains and ferries, so timetables are all working in conjunction with each other).

Anyway, here's the link to Melb's buses...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buses_in_Melbourne

A quick look at the Sydney buses page on wiki reveals they have 13 companies running their buses. So it looks like it's the exact same problem.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buses_in_Sydney

Sydney isn't a city that's exactly famous for investing in public transport either (and whenever they do, they usually f*ck it up or let a private company do it which ten results in all sorts of problems) so I'm not entirely surprised that such ancient buses are still running around on the streets of Central Syd.
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Old December 13th, 2008, 08:25 AM   #72
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Old December 13th, 2008, 11:36 AM   #73
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Quite a few misconceptions in this post.

Firstly with Melbourne it used to have a government bus operation which was part of the MET. It was sold as part of the privitisation of the train and tram networks 10 or so years ago.

With both Sydney and Melbourne government bus operations were done in the inner city area's, the outter suburban runs were always private operators. Other cities such as Brisbane and Adelaide do the same, except because the cities are smaller it is not quite as noticable.

In Sydney all operators (including the government owned STA) must now tender for regions which are under the control of the state government. The state government is also providing funding for private operators to buy and operate buses on their behalf. So in effect the whole of Sydney is now under full government control.

Last edited by ajw373; December 14th, 2008 at 08:31 PM.
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Old December 14th, 2008, 03:03 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
These buses are awesome! They remind me so much of my childhood and have developed over the years into the new cittaros that are operating now. I love the sound of them and travelling on them. The articulated versions were brilliant. Especially travelling from Wynyard to Palm Beach over the harbour bridge.They are slowly being phased out but will always be a part of Sydney's city scape.
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Old December 15th, 2008, 10:49 AM   #75
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Auckland doesn't have quite so many bus companies. However, all their ticketing systems are incompatible. How stupid do you get?
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Old December 16th, 2008, 08:51 PM   #76
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In Zaragoza, (SPAIN) buses are served by TUZSA, the major operator, who launched an inteligent card, TarjetaBus, very attractive because of the price reduction (90cts Euro for a standard ticket, 50cts Euro for TarjetaBus trips) and allowing 60 minutes allowance for transfer to other routes within the city, without any additional charge.

There are 4 other companies (Ágreda Automóvil, Alosa, Automóviles Zaragoza and Samar Buil) who operate a few services to the suburbs that also joined the system HOWEVER, if you are heading out of the city, you can get on the selected stops, BUT you cannot get off within the TUZSA area. Also, if you are heading in, you are allowed to get off at any selected stops within the TUZSA area, but not get on.

Sometimes you are waiting for your bus, that seems to have disappeared, and you see the one from the other companies passing by, with plenty of room, but that doesn't stop because it is within the city limits. At the end of the day, why should it matter who operates the line if the service is subsidised as the other one is, by the Council?

That is what I call, GOOD SERVICE. I will keep on complaining...

Now... match that!
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Old December 17th, 2008, 08:17 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajw373 View Post
Quite a few misconceptions in this post.

Firstly with Melbourne it used to have a government bus operation which was part of the MET. It was sold as part of the privitisation of the train and tram networks 10 or so years ago.

With both Sydney and Melbourne government bus operations were done in the inner city area's, the outter suburban runs were always private operators. Other cities such as Brisbane and Adelaide do the same, except because the cities are smaller it is not quite as noticable.

In Sydney all operators (including the government owned STA) must now tender for regions which are under the control of the state government. The state government is also providing funding for private operators to buy and operate buses on their behalf. So in effect the whole of Sydney is now under full government control.
Another misconception (or, to put it another way, a correction overlooked) is that Melbourne still has a large tram network, so the operation of buses within the inner suburban areas is confined to a fairly small number of routes. I'd be surprised if more than 5% of PT passengers out of inner Melbourne were carried by bus: probably rather less.

By my count (I used Melways & Sydways Street Directories and stand to be corrected) there are 41 railway stations within a 10 km radius of the centre of Sydney: whereas there are 80 in Melbourne. Melbourne of course doesn't have a ferry network, but while 11 suburban railway lines cross that 10 km circle in Melbourne (the inner 300 sq. km & a bit) only 6 lines cross that perimeter in Sydney. I haven't counted the Epping-Chatswood line in here.

By my reckoning, Melbourne also has an additional 8 tram-lines crossing that 10km circle (it would be much more for the next inner circle drawn on the map at 7km). Hence, a lot of buses (and ferries, which are a lovely way to travel) in Sydney.

What I'd like from Sydney is a decent bus-map. Like this:



or this:



or this:


Last edited by Yardmaster; December 17th, 2008 at 08:32 PM.
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Old December 17th, 2008, 09:44 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yardmaster View Post
Another misconception (or, to put it another way, a correction overlooked) is that Melbourne still has a large tram network, so the operation of buses within the inner suburban areas is confined to a fairly small number of routes. I'd be surprised if more than 5% of PT passengers out of inner Melbourne were carried by bus: probably rather less.

By my count (I used Melways & Sydways Street Directories and stand to be corrected) there are 41 railway stations within a 10 km radius of the centre of Sydney: whereas there are 80 in Melbourne. Melbourne of course doesn't have a ferry network, but while 11 suburban railway lines cross that 10 km circle in Melbourne (the inner 300 sq. km & a bit) only 6 lines cross that perimeter in Sydney. I haven't counted the Epping-Chatswood line in here.

By my reckoning, Melbourne also has an additional 8 tram-lines crossing that 10km circle (it would be much more for the next inner circle drawn on the map at 7km). Hence, a lot of buses (and ferries, which are a lovely way to travel) in Sydney.

What I'd like from Sydney is a decent bus-map.
At the end of the day, it doesn't matter how many stations are within a certain area if no one uses them. The patronage difference between Cityrail and Connex Melbourne is actually quite shocking.

Melbourne
Connex Melbourne: ~187.4 million journeys

Sydney
Cityrail: ~328.5 million journeys.

Couple this with the fact that Melbournes trams and buses togther just manage over the patronage of the STA buses in Sydney (which aren't all of the buses in Sydney) and it paints quite a different picture again.

Melbourne:
Yarra Trams: ~150 million trips
Buses: ~86.7 million trips

Sydney:
STA Buses: ~202.2 million trips
Private Buses: ~133.9 million trips
Metro Light Rail: ~3.5 million trips

What Melbourne does do better is integrated ticketing. The ticketing system that exists in Melbourne is so obviously superior to Sydney that it hurts!

Anyway, this thread was about Sydney buses, not "what does Melbourne have compared to Sydney".
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Old December 18th, 2008, 09:25 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chusanch View Post
In Zaragoza, (SPAIN) buses are served by TUZSA, the major operator, who launched an inteligent card, TarjetaBus, very attractive because of the price reduction (90cts Euro for a standard ticket, 50cts Euro for TarjetaBus trips) and allowing 60 minutes allowance for transfer to other routes within the city, without any additional charge.

There are 4 other companies (Ágreda Automóvil, Alosa, Automóviles Zaragoza and Samar Buil) who operate a few services to the suburbs that also joined the system HOWEVER, if you are heading out of the city, you can get on the selected stops, BUT you cannot get off within the TUZSA area. Also, if you are heading in, you are allowed to get off at any selected stops within the TUZSA area, but not get on.

Sometimes you are waiting for your bus, that seems to have disappeared, and you see the one from the other companies passing by, with plenty of room, but that doesn't stop because it is within the city limits. At the end of the day, why should it matter who operates the line if the service is subsidised as the other one is, by the Council?

That is what I call, GOOD SERVICE. I will keep on complaining...

Now... match that!
Talk about spam... what has this post got to do with anything??
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Old December 20th, 2008, 09:11 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by city_thing View Post
Buses in Sydney are terrible
Wrong - better than your beloved Melbourne, home of 30-60 minute frequencies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by city_thing View Post
Lots and lots of old models driving around that other cities would have relegated to school trips and low-patronage outer suburban routes years ago.
Nothing wrong with the Merc O305s and O405s that are still in service now that the Mk2s are gone. I'd rather better services and less shiny vehicles than the other way around.

I take it you'd prefer to wait an hour for a shiny new low floor, as you do in Melbourne.

Don't worry, I'll make a new OzScrapers thread on this in due course.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yardmaster
I'd be surprised if more than 5% of PT passengers out of inner Melbourne were carried by bus: probably rather less.
Yes, because there is trams on most routes in those areas.

What's your point?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yardmaster
By my count (I used Melways & Sydways Street Directories and stand to be corrected) there are 41 railway stations within a 10 km radius of the centre of Sydney: whereas there are 80 in Melbourne.
w00t, we have more railway stations than youse!!!!!!!!!!!!!111

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yardmaster
What I'd like from Sydney is a decent bus-map. Like this:
There are PDF bus maps, sorted by STA region on http://www.sydneybuses.info that are much better than those Metlink ones.

Funny that the Melbourne ones you quoted were for areas with crap services.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Svartmetall
At the end of the day, it doesn't matter how many stations are within a certain area if no one uses them. The patronage difference between Cityrail and Connex Melbourne is actually quite shocking.
Thanks for the statistics Svart.

Quote:
Originally Posted by city_thing
Talk about spam... what has this post got to do with anything??
Nothing.
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