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Old January 24th, 2012, 03:03 PM   #141
NotTarts
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Originally Posted by historyworks View Post
Who are those phantom passengers? According to the NSW Railcorp annual report 2010-2011 Cityrail moved 294.5 million passengers. On-time running has been achieved by slowing down the trains so that most services are slower than they were in the 1930s and it is now possibly one of the slowest electric train systems in the world. It barely copes with its task of serving a conurbation of 5 million people, a quarter of the population of Australia.

It is significant that it manages to do what it does but it's nowhere near enough. Underinvestment has been the main problem over the years. This is probably the best summary of the operation:

http://schwandl.blogspot.com/2011/03...-cityrail.html
I said 360 million trips, not passengers. 'Patronage' might've been the wrong word for the daily figure.

But yeah, the trains are pretty slow; it's twice as fast to drive to the city than it is to take the train. It's relatively consistent, though, which seems to be important to a lot of people. They've got the reliability down, which should allow them to slowly improve the speeds without upsetting the network. I reckon it's definitely improved over the last 5 years - in 2007 10 lines had peak loads over 135%, whereas that's been reduced to 6 as of 2011.

I'm still not able to understand the map, honestly. There are 13 lines and I have no idea where any of them go.
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Old January 25th, 2012, 01:43 AM   #142
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So what are "trips" if they're not passengers?

I don't think it will ever get faster again. The operational culture is poisoned and they've got rid of all their talent and experience. After track is upgraded, when you'd expect improvement, engineers set lower speed limits out of conservatism. Robert Lee's book on Australian transport compares interurban rail journeys out of Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane over a period of 60 years and found that the Brisbane example was 50 % faster, the Melbourne one 40% faster and the Sydney one 13% slower. He notes that there is nowadays no political sense of shame about this mediocrity in Sydney. A system that results in people spending up to 4 or 5 hours a day commuting is not one to parade with pride on SCF!

But thanks for the photos! Those unfamiliar with the system should note that the older trains shown are far more comfortable than the newer ones in spite of appearances - they were designed when there was still a sense of purpose to do things better!
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Old January 25th, 2012, 02:08 AM   #143
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Sydney's rail network is unique in that every suburban rail carriage is bilevel/double-deck. This allows each train to carry just under 1000 passengers.
Nothing unique about this commuter rail system. For instance, in the following commuter rail systems every carriage is bilevel:

Chicago (Metra)
Los Angeles (Metrolink)
Miami (Tri-Rail)
Seattle (Sounder)
Toronto (GO Transit)
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Old January 25th, 2012, 03:12 AM   #144
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Nothing unique about this commuter rail system. For instance, in the following commuter rail systems every carriage is bilevel:

Chicago (Metra)
Los Angeles (Metrolink)
Miami (Tri-Rail)
Seattle (Sounder)
Toronto (GO Transit)
Thanks, fixed. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't those all diesel locomotives?

Last edited by NotTarts; January 25th, 2012 at 04:03 AM.
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Old January 25th, 2012, 03:51 AM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woonsocket54 View Post
Nothing unique about this commuter rail system. For instance, in the following commuter rail systems every carriage is bilevel:

Chicago (Metra)
Los Angeles (Metrolink)
Miami (Tri-Rail)
Seattle (Sounder)
Toronto (GO Transit)
I think NotTarts forgot to add "electric multiple units" to "double-deck" - the above examples (correct me if I'm wrong) are probably push-pulls.

Turning to achievements now , the Intercity V sets pictured in the OP were the first fleet of fully double deck electric multiple units in the world and the model for many in Europe subsequently. They are the finest urban trains in Australia but sadly are being progressively retired, replaced by the OSCAR trains with lower speed and hard suburban bench seats on which long-distance commuters have to sit for up to 2.5 hours and over 100 km. That's "progress" Cityrail-style!
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Old January 25th, 2012, 03:55 AM   #146
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Thanks, fixed. Correct me if I'm wrong, but are those all diesel locomotives?
All are diesel except the electric Highliner on the Metra Electric District in the Chicago area. Those EMUs were introduced in 1971 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highliner), trailing Sydney by 1 year.
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Old January 25th, 2012, 04:06 AM   #147
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All are diesel except the electric Highliner on the Metra Electric District in the Chicago area. Those EMUs were introduced in 1971 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highliner), trailing Sydney by 1 year.
Sorry to be pedantic but aren't the Highliners gallery cars, not full two decks? The first Sydney prototype double deck emu (suburban) set was actually 1968. The manufacturer of the V set, Commonwealth Engineering of Sydney, sold designs to the French and it all went from there. I wonder which North American example was the first full double deck emu?
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Old January 25th, 2012, 04:32 AM   #148
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Turning to achievements now , the Intercity V sets pictured in the OP were the first fleet of fully double deck electric multiple units in the world and the model for many in Europe subsequently. They are the finest urban trains in Australia but sadly are being progressively retired, replaced by the OSCAR trains with lower speed and hard suburban bench seats on which long-distance commuters have to sit for up to 2.5 hours and over 100 km. That's "progress" Cityrail-style!
They've aged really, really well. Built 30-40 years ago and they don't even look outdated today. The OSCAR, on the other hand, really just feels like a regular suburban train with taller seats and toilets - even the vestibule seating uses the same configuration as a suburban carriage (designed for standing passengers; who's going to stand when travelling intercity!?) rather than the extra seats found in the V set. No luggage rack, even.

Just for comparison, H set on left, V set on right, notice the seating differences:


The problem is that the OSCARs are designed to run on both the suburban and intercity lines. Bad idea.

Of course, though, I'm very happy to see the L, R & S sets being replaced, finally. Ugly, jerky, outdated trains that shoud've been removed long ago.
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Old January 25th, 2012, 07:45 AM   #149
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The problem is that the OSCARs are designed to run on both the suburban and intercity lines. Bad idea.

Of course, though, I'm very happy to see the L, R & S sets being replaced, finally. Ugly, jerky, outdated trains that shoud've been removed long ago.
OSCARS like the G sets (outter suburban Tangara's) are designed to operate in outer suburban routes. They are classified medium stock so are too wide to operate in service to Newcastle or Lithgow. I beleive the issue relates the fact they have outwards opening plug doors, whereas V sets and the old silver suburban of all varieties have doors the open into cavities in the body.
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Old January 25th, 2012, 08:08 AM   #150
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How many people use the system like a metro though? You know, moving from Point A in downtown to Point B downtown?
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Old January 25th, 2012, 08:39 AM   #151
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OSCARS like the G sets (outter suburban Tangara's) are designed to operate in outer suburban routes. They are classified medium stock so are too wide to operate in service to Newcastle or Lithgow. I beleive the issue relates the fact they have outwards opening plug doors, whereas V sets and the old silver suburban of all varieties have doors the open into cavities in the body.
They might not operate on the Newcastle line, but in the south they travel all the way to Kiama, which is a 2 1/2 hour trip. Running trains designed for suburban/outer suburban services for a journey that long is a bit ridiculous, IMO.

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How many people use the system like a metro though? You know, moving from Point A in downtown to Point B downtown?
I honestly couldn't say. Bear in mind though that our 'downtown' is rather small compared to other cities with huge metro services like New York. A lot of the time you can just walk anywhere you'd want to.
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Old January 25th, 2012, 11:14 AM   #152
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More recent underground stations built as part of the Epping-Chatswood rail link (opened 2009):

image hosted on flickr



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Old January 25th, 2012, 12:15 PM   #153
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How many people use the system like a metro though? You know, moving from Point A in downtown to Point B downtown?
In fairness though, in most cities metros are not used primarily to travel within the CBD but to travel between the central area and other parts of the city.
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Old January 25th, 2012, 12:31 PM   #154
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You're posting some great photos there NotTarts, keep it up! In contrast to the blundering operation it can be said that Cityrail's public infrastructure improvements have been great. Just about all stations have been refurbished, including awnings and restoration of listed historic station buildings, and an "easy-access" program has provided many stations with stepless access, including ramps and elevators.
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Old January 25th, 2012, 01:38 PM   #155
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The Sydney Harbour Bridge is the main thoroughfare for trains coming from the north. It carries 8 lanes of traffic and 2 railway lines, with a pedestrian walkway and a bike path on the east and west side, respectively. However, these two lines have a maximum capacity of 20 trains each way per hour; currently 18 cross the bridge per hour during peak times. A second rail crossing would be needed in the future in order to cater for future network extensions.

Southern (?) end of the bridge, note the dual railway lines on the right


Tangara pulling up after crossing the harbour
image hosted on flickr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jirikoo...n/photostream/

image hosted on flickr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/christo...n/photostream/

Tangara crossing the bridge
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/squeaka...n/photostream/

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You're posting some great photos there NotTarts, keep it up! In contrast to the blundering operation it can be said that Cityrail's public infrastructure improvements have been great. Just about all stations have been refurbished, including awnings and restoration of listed historic station buildings, and an "easy-access" program has provided many stations with stepless access, including ramps and elevators.
Thanks, but I think it's important to note that most of these photos aren't mine. They're mostly from Wikimedia Commons but there are a couple from Flickr too.

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Old January 25th, 2012, 02:59 PM   #156
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Southern end of the bridge, note the dual railway lines on the right
Note that the bridge was built with 4 railway tracks. Two road lanes have replaced the ones that were on the left of the bridge in this photo. They were used by trams pending further expansion of the rail system but instead were converted to road lanes. Now additional rail tracks are required across the bridge but there is political reluctance to upset motorists by taking away the lanes even though 4 additional road lanes are now available in a tunnel under the harbour. That's Australian transport politics - dominated by roads!
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Old January 25th, 2012, 03:35 PM   #157
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Note that the bridge was built with 4 railway tracks. Two road lanes have replaced the ones that were on the left of the bridge in this photo. They were used by trams pending further expansion of the rail system but instead were converted to road lanes. Now additional rail tracks are required across the bridge but there is political reluctance to upset motorists by taking away the lanes even though 4 additional road lanes are now available in a tunnel under the harbour. That's Australian transport politics - dominated by roads!
There was a proposal in 2010 to build a deck underneath the bridge:
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/doubledeck...0213-nye6.html

They claimed that it wouldn't interfere with the looks and would fit between the existing struts, but it doesn't look to me like there's a terrible amount of space down there:
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Old January 26th, 2012, 03:14 AM   #158
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Interesting shots from CityRail (Chatswood Transport Interchange renovations):




Epping-Chatswood underground rail tunnel:
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Old March 24th, 2012, 02:02 AM   #159
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Once In A Lifetime Opportunity To Fix Transport
March 23, 2012 - 4:04PM

Sydney's 24-year-old monorail will be torn down and the city's light rail line will revert to public ownership in what the state government is calling a "once-in-a-generation" opportunity to fix transport in the city's CBD.

This morning's announcement by the Premier, Barry O'Farrell, and the Transport Minister, Gladys Berejiklian, came after months of negotiations with the shareholders of the company that owns the light rail and monorail lines.
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Damage ... Darling Park Station where the impact occurred.

The monorail is to be pulled down. Photo: Helen Nezdropa

The monorail will be torn down as soon as possible, Mr O'Farrell said, but that might be some time away.

"The real problem with the monorail, I think for most Sydneysiders, is that it doesn't actually go anywhere that you want to go," Mr O'Farrell said of the line, which opened in 1988.

"The last time I used it, it was $5, and that was whether you went 150 metres between stations or whether you did the full lap," he said.

The state government has invited tenders from construction companies to redevelop the precinct around Sydney's Convention Centre and Entertainment Centre.

The monorail was a potential impediment to the development, and was also facing major maintenance bills.

Buying the light rail, meanwhile, in a combined $19.8 million deal, means the government faces fewer obstacles in extending the network through the CBD and inner west and inner east.

The contract with Metro Transport Sydney, the previous owner of the light rail and monorail, had allowed that company first rights on any extension.

"This is a once-in-a-generation decision to get it right," Ms Berejiklian said.

"That's why we've made this decision. By purchasing the monorail and the light rail network this government has all the options before it to get it right."

Buying the line will also make it easier for the government to eventually offer the same ticketing system on the tram network as it offers on buses and trains.

A new ticketing system, to be called the "Opal Card", will start on ferries this year and buses, trains and trams by 2014.

The City of Sydney council immediately supported today's announcement, as did the state's business chamber.

Ms Berejiklian said last year's decision to allow pensioners and MyMulti holders to use their tickets on the light rail line, which the previous government had refused to do, had led to a 30 per cent to 40 per cent increase in patronage on the line.

In buying out the line, she said the government would now be able to decide whether to buy extra trams to cater for the increased patronage.

MyMulti tickets will not be made available on the monorail in the period before it is taken down.

By the middle of the year the government will release a strategic plan for a light rail extension to the CBD and possibly the eastern suburbs and Sydney University. That plan will include details on what changes to bus routes would accommodate a tram extension.

Lord mayor Clover Moore said in a statement: "This is exactly what we've been waiting for from this government - big, bold transport projects.

"I welcome the purchase of Metro Transport Sydney, which will help fully integrate the current light rail system into the expanded network now being planned.

"Removal of the ugly and intrusive monorail is also the right next step. Replacing it with efficient and effective light rail will improve transport access in central Sydney."

The monorail was mainly used by tourists, and patronage had fallen about 20 per cent in the last four years.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/onceinagen...#ixzz1pz3RPOrN
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Old March 24th, 2012, 12:11 PM   #160
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Glad to see they're finally tearing down that bloody monorail.
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