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Old December 13th, 2010, 05:24 PM   #41
g.spinoza
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuclear Winter View Post
We're talking about normal, sober motorists, not drunken, speeding, drugged up idiots.

It is true, a human has good enough eyesight to identify a vehicle, what it's doing, which direction it's travelling and gauge its tragectory etc and react accordingly within a safe timeframe.
Eyesight, yes. Attention skills, no.

Quote:
Most accidents areeither caused by the driver himself losing control of the vehicle for whatever reason, drunk/speeding/drugged idiots, an obstacle on the road or malfunction of the vehicle, not because someone drove head-on into someone else because they couldn't see him in the middle of a bright sunny day.
No.
Vast majority of incidents are caused by sober, normal people, who simply were distracted by something (another car, a pedestrian, whatever) and cause accidents.
If I have to be aware of dozens of still and moving objects around me, I prefer those moving objects to be lit. It is scientifically notorious that the human eye can detect moving objects better if they are lit.
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Old December 13th, 2010, 05:37 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuclear Winter View Post
Anyone with half decent eyesight can see a car in broad daylight from several hundred metres away..... more than enough time to react to a potential accident. Anyone who can't recognise a car from 200 metres is a braindead vegetable and most likely a decaying zombie.
They could be a braindead pedestrian, which as there is no sight test to be allowed outside, is quite understandable. Road users are not just car drivers.
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Old December 13th, 2010, 06:14 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuclear Winter View Post
If someone can't see something the size of a bloody car or truck in the middle of the day, then they are any one of:

1. blind
2. Dead
3. Shouldn't be driving
4. A complete retard

These ever-increasing protectionist laws are getting more and more stupid by the day. And I thought we had ridiculous laws here in Australia
You also left out Chinese and East Indian drivers.
Both HAVE NO PLACE WHATSOEVER ON THE ROADS!!!!!
Chinese think that "The Rules of the Road" do NOT apply to them and will pull some of the most jaw droppingly suicidal maneuvers you will ever see. And that's dead sober too. Thoroughly hammered Russians can drive better than a sober Chink.

East Indians ar OK for the most part in a car, but put them in an articulated lorry... If the truck starts, they drive it. Little wonder it's their trucks that end up in a ditch. THANKFULLY some of them are starting to get the drift and do pre-trips, as well as drive according to regulations.

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Originally Posted by Magnus Brage View Post
You are my friend.
Exactly what I'm thinking, ok a motorbike without lights could be difficult to discover even in the day, but the shear size of a car makes it impossible to ignore.
What about scooters, mopeds and motorbikes? Is there a country where you don't need headlights in the day riding a motorbike?
All motorcycles have headlights that come on when you start them. Both Honda (My 81 XL 185 S) and 2009 Yamaha (My WR250R) have headlights that come on automatically. When I was out with my instructor, he recommends using the high beam during the daytime to make the bike more visible.

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Originally Posted by Magnus Brage View Post
Btw in Australia it's compulsary to wear helmet for bicyclists, in Sweden it's only law for children under the age of 15.
Same here in BC. Bike helmets for all. Not that any good has come of it. Unlike AB (Alberta) where you don't need to wear one if you're over 16.
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Originally Posted by Stainless View Post
They could be a braindead pedestrian, which as there is no sight test to be allowed outside, is quite understandable. Road users are not just car drivers.
ESPECIALLY THIS!!!!
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Old December 13th, 2010, 06:42 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Maxx☢Power View Post
You left out Negroes, who are too dumb to drive.
Where I live, they at least have a decent concept of driving.
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Old December 13th, 2010, 07:35 PM   #45
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My Jeep does not have DRL. My BMW does. I use headlights on either vehicle I'm driving during the daytime. I think it makes other drivers aware that I'm there especially in the country when I'm driving on winding, tree shaded roads.
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Old December 13th, 2010, 08:19 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuclear Winter View Post
It is true, a human has good enough eyesight to identify a vehicle, what it's doing, which direction it's travelling and gauge its tragectory etc and react accordingly within a safe timeframe. :
Yes, all people can identify moving vehicle without headlights, but that ability
deterioate if DRL is introduced. Motorists in DRL-countries have less capability to discover moving objects compared to non DRL-countries.

The ECF released a protest against DRL, people tend to focus on the lights instead on the objects, which makes bicycling dangerous.

"Daytime running light no contribution to road safety
European Cyclists’ Federation (ECF): Deceptive safety for pedestrians and cyclists

There is no evidence to date for the safety advantages that should accompany the introduction of daytime running lights.

[...]

True-to-life studies from France and Austria even allow the conclusion that daytime running light offers no positive contribution to road safety", said Hübener in conversation with the minister.
Daytime running light leads to dazzling effects, it covers the light of indicators and contributes to visual overstimulation. Also a study in Israel with two phases of six- months each with and without daytime running light came to the conclusion, that daytime running light offered no gain in safety. Following a comparable study in Australia a regulation on daytime running light was withdrawn."

Facts proof the false statements about DRL

Compare traffic-accidents in Sweden after 1977 when DRL was introduced with other non-DRL-countries. Accidents in Sweden were on the same level as other non DRL-countries even if you compensated factors that may have affected the numbers of accidents.
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Old December 13th, 2010, 10:11 PM   #47
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Yes, you can see a car from several hundred metres away but how often do drivers really look? Mostly drivers just glance because the human mind is not capable of concentrating 100% on (regular) driving for much longer than a few minutes(except when there are extreme weather conditions, for example, when one clearly notices the difference in being a lot more tired after driving). But when we talk about glancing, it's obvius that lit objects are more easily detected than unlit ones. But does it mean that drivers may get used to only looking for the lights and not the vehicles behind them? Yes, that's probably true. That's why it's necessary to have 100% DLR or no DLR at all. Bikes are a difficult case, I agree, but I don't see the reason why bikes shouldn't use DLR too. LED lights have become rather cheap and last very long(especially in flashing mode). Since we don't have a biking culture in Estonia, it's crucial to make yourself visible as a cyclist. That's why I've seen several bikes that have flashing lights on during daytime and it really helps.

One more thing: with DLR, you can easily make a difference between parking vehicles and driving vehicles which is very helpful in streets that have alot of parallel parking spaces.

And about the whining on the nanny-state: other people are not interested in paying their tax money on your medical bills when it could really be used for development not repairs.

Last edited by Rebasepoiss; December 13th, 2010 at 10:20 PM.
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Old December 15th, 2010, 09:48 AM   #48
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Mandatory or not, I always drive my dark green car with headlights on, but almost never high-beams.

I live in Virginia - daytime running lights are permitted, not mandatory, on most vehicles, but are built in to some vehicles as a standard feature. (Not how European vehicles have a random tiny lightbulb inside the headlight, i mean separated dedicated running lights.)

Motorcycles always have their headlights on. I've noticed that some with two headlights will often only use one. Also, very curiously, some motorcycles will use a flashing headlight - this is typically only found on emergency vehicles when their warning lights are turned on, and if I recall correctly, it's ONLY allowed on emergency vehicles along with their warning lights.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fargo Wolf View Post
You also left out Chinese and East Indian drivers.
Both HAVE NO PLACE WHATSOEVER ON THE ROADS!!!!!
Chinese think that "The Rules of the Road" do NOT apply to them and will pull some of the most jaw droppingly suicidal maneuvers you will ever see. And that's dead sober too. Thoroughly hammered Russians can drive better than a sober Chink.

East Indians ar OK for the most part in a car, but put them in an articulated lorry... If the truck starts, they drive it. Little wonder it's their trucks that end up in a ditch. THANKFULLY some of them are starting to get the drift and do pre-trips, as well as drive according to regulations.
You should have heard my driving instructor tell me about the Indian girl he had to try to teach to drive... She was the only person he'd ever had driving when he had to use his personal passenger-side emergency brake. *

*Driving instruction in Virginia consists of a classroom course and a behind-the-wheel course (almost exclusively on real roads) as well as 45 hours of driving with a licensed adult over 21 years old, including 10 hours at night. This was the behind-the-wheel teacher. The typical thing to do is take the classroom course, then do your 45 (or acquire some sort of reasonable skills if you weren't logging time, as I did) and then do the behind-the-wheel course, which ends in a summary driving test on real roads and then you can go to the DMV (dept of motor vehicles) and get your license. There is absolutely no requirement that you need to be able to operate a manual transmission.
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Last edited by nerdly_dood; December 15th, 2010 at 10:03 AM.
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Old December 15th, 2010, 10:34 AM   #49
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You MUST do it in Latvia and I don't see anything bad in it. Actually, as ChrisZwolle said, it is done for you to be seen. Sometimes it works very well (specially for grey cars).
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Old December 16th, 2010, 10:00 PM   #50
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Like it or not, DRL will be a requirement in the entire EU.

This also has an indirect effect on non-DRL countries as well. For instance, all new Audi vehicles sold in the Philippines have them as standard equipment (stock). Other Euro car brands are following suit.

Haha heck, even Lexus here is starting to implement them.

So yeah, whether we like it or not, we will see more and more of these DRL as standard equipment in cars in the years to come and in all over the world.

Two cents
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Old December 18th, 2010, 12:16 AM   #51
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I use headlights all the time for about a year now, I think improving visibility is important in a state filled with terrible drivers, half of them shouldn't be driving. Before that I had DRL's but to be honest they weren't very bright, the impact they had would have been minimal(my car is gold and the lights were a yellowish color because the it was the high beams using a lower energy). Aside from increasing visibility you will never forget to turn on your lights if your car doesn't automatically because it becomes habit to turn on your headlights, some people are too lazy or stupid to turn on their lights during rain or fog having a habit may prevent that. Only negative I see is burning out bulbs quicker.
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Old December 18th, 2010, 06:11 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I-275westcoastfl View Post
I use headlights all the time for about a year now, Only negative I see is burning out bulbs quicker.
What does the lineup of brands look like where you live? and what cars are equipped with DRL?

As far as I know GM is still the dominant brand of cars, toyota especially the camry is supposed to be a popular model.

Do new GM cars like Lincoln Town Car & Navigator, Cadilac Escalade have DRL?
is there a possibility to disconnect the DRL on those models?

Does Toyota Camry come with DRL ?

Do police cars use DRL?

Is there a difference of DRL use between different states?
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Old December 18th, 2010, 08:40 PM   #53
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My own preferences: when I'm doing normal city driving, don't usually bother with the lights (until mid afternoon when I switch them on - having a mountain in the middle of your city makes light conditions interesting, particularly when you live right next to it on the eastern side - gets a lot darker there at that time of day than the rest of Cape Town). On the open road, I always drive with them on. For me, it's making myself as visible as possible, especially as I drive a silver car which tends to camouflage itself pretty well, particularly from the perspective of oncoming traffic.

I've noticed that the latest Audis to hit these parts come with automatic DRL installed. Haven't seen built-in DRL anywhere else though.
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Old December 19th, 2010, 03:49 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnus Brage View Post
What does the lineup of brands look like where you live? and what cars are equipped with DRL?

As far as I know GM is still the dominant brand of cars, toyota especially the camry is supposed to be a popular model.

Do new GM cars like Lincoln Town Car & Navigator, Cadilac Escalade have DRL?
is there a possibility to disconnect the DRL on those models?

Does Toyota Camry come with DRL ?

Do police cars use DRL?

Is there a difference of DRL use between different states?
Yes I have a Chrysler and mine did not come standard with DRL in the US, only Canada, so I bought the chip for it, even then I prefer using headlights, it's brighter. All new GM's have DRL, I don't know if Ford does, Toyota's have them standard.
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Old December 19th, 2010, 08:45 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Fender56 View Post
Do you have a link to more info on this.?

I found this map on current rules in the EU, and according to that, DRL´s are prohibited in Greeze, until newyear.:



What happened to Estonia and Turkey???
In Spain is recommended, so it should be in orange and black stripes. I'm seeing more and more drivers are using DRL.
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Old December 19th, 2010, 10:58 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Spikespiegel View Post
It's not more energy consuming using headlights during day. The energy used for the headlights would have otherwise just been "wasted", as the engine transformer produces an excess amount of energy.
That's wrong. With every new consumer of electricity in the car the fuel usage goes up: AC, lights, a loud stereo, heated seats, heated mirrors/windows - you name it. It is estimated that DLR increases the average fuel consumption by 1% which is marginal compared to AC, for example.
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Old December 19th, 2010, 11:07 PM   #57
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Cold weather increases fuel consumption by 20% or more. The argument of energy saving is really thin...
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Old December 19th, 2010, 11:16 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I usually have my lights on at daytime, and so does the majority of the Dutch drivers, I assume around 60 - 70% of them. It's not to see but to be seen. I don't want somebody's passing action run sour if they crash into me. The most popular car color is gray. This is especially a color you cannot see as well as bright yellow or red. Also note there are many people on the road who do not have a good eyesight as most people, especially with the aging, yet mobile population. Lights are not only for the night, but also during adverse weather conditions. I've seen numerous people who still have no lights on during heavy rain or snowfall.
Completely off topic - if you're dutch, why do you spell english words the american way, such as color/colour and gray/grey?

When I was at school and learned spanish they always drilled into us european Spanish words, spellings and pronunciations as opposed to american ones, and I just kind of assumed they must do this all over Europe when learning each other's languages.
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Old December 19th, 2010, 11:21 PM   #59
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I'm used to American English Though they teach you British English in high school. I doubt if many people are actually aware of the spelling differences...
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Old December 19th, 2010, 11:40 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebasepoiss View Post
That's wrong. With every new consumer of electricity in the car the fuel usage goes up: AC, lights, a loud stereo, heated seats, heated mirrors/windows - you name it. It is estimated that DLR increases the average fuel consumption by 1% which is marginal compared to AC, for example.
A normal car which uses DRL consume 55W*2 (headlights)+5W*2 (rear lights)+5W (lic.plate lights) that's about 125W which is a considarble amount of energy used. Especially if the sun is shining I'd rather use that energy for something else like the AC or stereo.
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