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View Poll Results: Is there Islamic Architecture
Yes 137 74.05%
No 36 19.46%
I don't know! 12 6.49%
Voters: 185. You may not vote on this poll

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Old December 29th, 2010, 04:25 AM   #241
Adrian12345Lugo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mekky II View Post
Hm... sorry but when tourists come in Greece, France, Spain or Italy, they don't come visiting same architecture, there is common features (domes, archs etc), but there was clear regional evolutions
The same exact thing can be said for "Islamic Architecture". yet you are against the term "Islamic Architecture".



any building built by European settlers that is considered moderately Beautiful or not, has this same style incorporated into it. and if for any strange reason a European building doesnt have this style incorporated into it, in anyway, is because it lacks a style all together.


image hosted on flickr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/archer1...7624951040662/

image hosted on flickr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/archer1...7603783207840/

image hosted on flickr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/chikitosam/4258148322/


What makes Colonial buldings beautiful is not the [B]"regional design" that you speak of, but the Greek/Roman Styles incorporated into them[/B].

Last edited by Adrian12345Lugo; December 29th, 2010 at 04:48 AM.
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Old December 29th, 2010, 05:05 AM   #242
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The Stupa is older than the Greek incursion into the Subcontinent . The fact that you see it in Indo-Greek and Bactrian coinage is because the Greeks under Alexander tried to assimilate and adapt to the native cultures that they conquered. In carved Greek gems and coins from all over the conquered lands, you see images that are local to the cultures: images of the God Serapis in Egypt, the Hellenistic rulers in the garb of the Persian Kings, etc.

You will NOT see images of the stupa in Greek coinage in the Mediterranean world because it NEVER existed in those lands.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mekky II View Post
Another example said here was that "stupa" is a typical 100% buddhist architecture... Actually it's wrong, and again, it's greeks, or more precisely indo-greeks that did make evolve it and helped to sprawl buddhism through Asia. In beginning, the stupas were simple mounts :


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Old December 29th, 2010, 05:10 AM   #243
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What is this?

Are you saying that the architecture of the Spanish Empire cannot be distinguished from the architecture of the Roman Empire? That French Classicism is EXACTLY the same as the architecture of Classical Greece? And that the Roman and Hellenistic Style of architecture is the same as the architecture of the time of Pericles?

To say THAT would be ridiculous. It smacks as total ignorance in the history and evolution of architecture.


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Originally Posted by Adrian12345Lugo View Post
Saying Spanish, French, British, etc Architecture is as erroneous as sayin Islamic Architecture. All one can see in these styles is Greek/Roman Architecture. One can also argue, that it is all Greek Architecture.

It is some what incorrect to say, "You can see Spanish Architecture in Latin America" The more correct way of stating it would be "You can see the Architecture utilized by the Spanish in Latin America".
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Old December 29th, 2010, 06:11 AM   #244
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mekky II View Post
Another example said here was that "stupa" is a typical 100% buddhist architecture... Actually it's wrong, and again, it's greeks, or more precisely indo-greeks that did make evolve it and helped to sprawl buddhism through Asia. In beginning, the stupas were simple mounts :

The picture/diagram is for ONE stupa (Butkara Stupa in Pakistan), not ALL stupa.

Please use common sense? ONE = ALL?

Also, it is speculative drawing. Not based from real excavation. Actual, it is rubbish drawing.
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Old December 29th, 2010, 06:39 AM   #245
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islamic arcitecture iself is heavily based on sassanid persian architecture

regardless, islam is a theory, but the architecture is infact under an umbrella. eg: a mosque in amsterdam would be built with dutch architecture, therefor one can say dutch architecture is also islamic? not really. in many cases since buildings hat have been built in muslim countries have some shared elements, in general the existence of such elements makes islamic architecture, but really islamic architecture can be rather an umbrella.

its a hard question to answer. eg there is no such thing as christian architecture, or else all of europe would have "christian" architecture. the case is that usually in the west they lump all of the middle east together therefor they lump all their architecture together under the name of their religion. im persian, and we never consider our architecture the same as "arab architecture". we are both majority muslim, but our culture as well as our architecture arent the same, they are distinct.
Yes. Agree. Western Scholar lump all middle-east architecture into 'islamic'.
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Old December 29th, 2010, 08:53 AM   #246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tpe View Post
What is this?

Are you saying that the architecture of the Spanish Empire cannot be distinguished from the architecture of the Roman Empire? That French Classicism is EXACTLY the same as the architecture of Classical Greece? And that the Roman and Hellenistic Style of architecture is the same as the architecture of the time of Pericles?

To say THAT would be ridiculous. It smacks as total ignorance in the history and evolution of architecture.
No i didnt say any of that, but altering a style of architecture a bit doesnt make it your own nor a unique one. I find it some what offensive and ignorant to say "French, Spanish, Dutch, Etc Architecture", when all they are is the continuation of Roman Architecture, which was the continuation of Greek architecture. and lets not forget that there are other civilizations who had their influence and deserve credit, such as the Moors in southeren Europe.

This is a building in Mexico built around 1900, would this be considered Mexican Architecture?
image hosted on flickr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gib_l/48658624/

Last edited by Adrian12345Lugo; December 29th, 2010 at 08:58 AM.
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Old December 29th, 2010, 10:35 AM   #247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoroushPersepolisi View Post
islamic arcitecture iself is heavily based on sassanid persian architecture

regardless, islam is a theory, but the architecture is infact under an umbrella. eg: a mosque in amsterdam would be built with dutch architecture, therefor one can say dutch architecture is also islamic? not really. in many cases since buildings hat have been built in muslim countries have some shared elements, in general the existence of such elements makes islamic architecture, but really islamic architecture can be rather an umbrella.
Sorry to remind you this but:
  • The Mesopotamians were using bricks for architecture long before Sassanids.
  • The arch form can be heavily found in Babylon, other fertile crescent cities before Persia.
  • Where did Sassanids use the hypostyle hall for their architecture?
  • Where did the Sassanids group a hypostyle hall with a courtyard for example?
  • What about the Nabatean tradition and hundereds of roman architectural forms in the Middle East and North Africa? (It was an integral portion of the Roman Empire before Islam)
  • What about the architecture of ancient Egypt and of the Egyptian Christians?

If you are ignoring these like most Iranians seem to be doing on this thread, I would be inclined to think that you are all being delusional.

In fact the architecture of the first mosque in Islam (after Medina) - the mosque of Damascus - borrowed heavily from the Roman tradition. Same goes for the Dome of the Rock. Many of the early mosques (eg. Ibn Tulun) even recycled the columns existing in Roman architectural sites.

In short, to believe that most Muslim architecture is Sassanid influence is just delusional thinking and extreme ignorance.
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Old December 29th, 2010, 01:33 PM   #248
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Edit: my initial posting here was a bit harsh, and so I edited it to make the tone less confrontational. I sometimes get a bit too impatient here...

-----------------

Edited post:

They are not a continuation of Roman Architecture.

First, don't forget the almost 1000 years separating late antiquity and the reinterpretation of the classical idiom.

Second, there ARE major differences between the classical schools of the different nations.

Third, several styles co-existed in all these countries with classicism, and all of these styles (classicism included) showed major variations within themselves.

There is a difference between the classicism of Palladio with that of Alberti, for example.

The same with Palladio and Robert Adam, as is with Robert Adam and Inigo Jones.

And BTW, I can see at least 5 Vitruvian rules that the building from Mexico violates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrian12345Lugo View Post
No i didnt say any of that, but altering a style of architecture a bit doesnt make it your own nor a unique one. I find it some what offensive and ignorant to say "French, Spanish, Dutch, Etc Architecture", when all they are is the continuation of Roman Architecture, which was the continuation of Greek architecture. and lets not forget that there are other civilizations who had their influence and deserve credit, such as the Moors in southeren Europe.

This is a building in Mexico built around 1900, would this be considered Mexican Architecture?
image hosted on flickr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gib_l/48658624/

Last edited by tpe; December 29th, 2010 at 03:27 PM.
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Old December 29th, 2010, 02:30 PM   #249
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taj mahal can be considered as a biggest islamic structure , and it is also a wonder of the world .
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Old December 29th, 2010, 03:18 PM   #250
Mekky II
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrian12345Lugo View Post
The same exact thing can be said for "Islamic Architecture". yet you are against the term "Islamic Architecture".

Any building built by European settlers that is considered moderately Beautiful or not, has this same style incorporated into it. and if for any strange reason a European building doesnt have this style incorporated into it, in anyway, is because it lacks a style all together.

What makes Colonial buldings beautiful is not the [B]"regional design" that you speak of, but the Greek/Roman Styles incorporated into them[/B].
Yes, because europeans did give a name to their evolutions (like catalan modernism for gaudi works in Barcelona), and not simply put into "christian architecture".

Mayan revival architecture does have roman/greek in it ? =>

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Old December 29th, 2010, 03:54 PM   #251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tpe View Post
The Stupa is older than the Greek incursion into the Subcontinent.
For sure it is :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurgan

But the modern form is not :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graeco-buddhism


Quote:
Originally Posted by tpe View Post
The fact that you see it in Indo-Greek and Bactrian coinage is because the Greeks under Alexander tried to assimilate and adapt to the native cultures that they conquered. In carved Greek gems and coins from all over the conquered lands, you see images that are local to the cultures: images of the God Serapis in Egypt, the Hellenistic rulers in the garb of the Persian Kings, etc.

You will NOT see images of the stupa in Greek coinage in the Mediterranean world because it NEVER existed in those lands.
They not only tried, they did assimilate local cultures. Hellenism has this particularity, an example so far, lot of scholars put the origin of western civilization in ancient egypt, because lot of basic similarities, but also considering the impact that did have ptolemaic dynasty, the last ancient dynasty of Egypt.
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Old December 29th, 2010, 03:59 PM   #252
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What is this kurgan? it is not related to stupa. Please not make your new theory.

Greco-Buddhism only influence some region, not all region.
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Old December 29th, 2010, 04:11 PM   #253
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Originally Posted by Mekky II View Post
Even the above wikipedia article you quote about Graeco-Buddhism acknowledges that stupas were Buddhist and that the Greeks recognized them as such. Specifically, the article states:

A large Greek city built by Demetrius and rebuilt by Menander has been excavated at the archaeological site of Sirkap near Taxila, where Buddhist stupas were standing side-by-side with Hindu and Greek temples, indicating religious tolerance and syncretism.
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Old December 29th, 2010, 05:28 PM   #254
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What is this kurgan? it is not related to stupa. Please not make your new theory.

Greco-Buddhism only influence some region, not all region.
Wikipedia is not for people read it ? It is related to stupas since it originates to indo-europeans that gave vedic religion, itself giving hinduism, itself giving buddhism.

Religion (with a bit R) is only a long evolution.
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Old December 29th, 2010, 05:32 PM   #255
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Mekky II You writing nonsense. Please do not create personal theory.

Maybe Atlantis give civilization also
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Old December 29th, 2010, 05:33 PM   #256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tpe View Post
Even the above wikipedia article you quote about Graeco-Buddhism acknowledges that stupas were Buddhist and that the Greeks recognized them as such. Specifically, the article states:

A large Greek city built by Demetrius and rebuilt by Menander has been excavated at the archaeological site of Sirkap near Taxila, where Buddhist stupas were standing side-by-side with Hindu and Greek temples, indicating religious tolerance and syncretism.
Hm, "buddhist architecture" is as idiot term as "islamic architecture".
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Old December 29th, 2010, 05:40 PM   #257
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Mekky II You writing nonsense. Please do not create personal theory.

Maybe Atlantis give civilization also
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurgan_hypothesis

Of course it's a personal theory... from a period i was not yet born.

It is so hard to take knowledge that europe and india rule the world ? better to start saying "jesus-christna (krishna)" that to continue be blind man !
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Old December 29th, 2010, 05:43 PM   #258
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"jesus-christna (krishna)"


you are mad. Like crazy theory..
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Old December 29th, 2010, 05:45 PM   #259
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Hm, "buddhist architecture" is as idiot term as "islamic architecture".
They are NOT. These terms have been used for ages, and there is a VAST literature defining and elucidating the meaning and scope of these terms.

Please read my previous posts, and some of the references I have cited.

And not to sound critical, but it is a bit presumptuous of you to think that you know more about this subject than the people from the last hundred years (at least) who have devoted their entire lives to the study of architecture.
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Old December 29th, 2010, 06:03 PM   #260
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"jesus-christna (krishna)"


you are mad. Like crazy theory..
It's not mine too this one...

And another, it will make you thinking i am mad again (but who is really ?) :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhis...ddha_and_Jesus

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