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View Poll Results: Is there Islamic Architecture
Yes 137 74.05%
No 36 19.46%
I don't know! 12 6.49%
Voters: 185. You may not vote on this poll

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Old December 29th, 2010, 06:10 PM   #261
Mekky II
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And not to sound critical, but it is a bit presumptuous of you to think that you know more about this subject than the people from the last hundred years (at least) who have devoted their entire lives to the study of architecture.
You know, big thinkers have good ideas only between 10 or 20 years. All other years of their lifes are only conservative ones and try to make thinking other peoples they are right. For me, there is no fixed history, nore there is a fixed architecture, and even more a fixed religion... what will be atheist architecture ? this ?

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Old December 29th, 2010, 06:41 PM   #262
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The main problem with "islamic architecture" is that it is a flat expression without core... Islamic civilization was based on too pillars : Persia on one side and Iberia on the other. Byzantine Empire was not conquered, so byzantine architecture can't be integrated in initial movement. In middle of those two pillars, it was a desert (in all senses of the term), there was no typical "islamic architecture" that came from arabian peninsula. There was absolutely no "arabic architecture" to put in conquered lands. On other hand, when ancient greeks, romans or when british, spanish or russian expanded their respective empires, they imposed their core architectures...

I did read in previous pages that architecture is linked with philosophy... yes why not, however islamic philosophy is part of western philosophy... islamic thinkers were unable to pass over old greek heritage, something that could maybe be a proof that the great library of Alexandria was maybe not completely destroyed, and it simply turned only a legend to make afraid foreigners.

Another example said here was that "stupa" is a typical 100% buddhist architecture... Actually it's wrong, and again, it's greeks, or more precisely indo-greeks that did make evolve it and helped to sprawl buddhism through Asia. In beginning, the stupas were simple mounts :



For me, "islamic architecture" is more linked with Yemen, that with Iran, Turkey or Egypt.

The Ummayad (2nd Caliphate), which was based in Damascus and Meditarranean-leaning, was much more influenced by Byzantium than by Sassanian Persian architecture. And, yes, large parts of the Byzantine Empire WERE conquered by the Muslims, initially: Egypt, the Levant, Eastern Anatolia....etc. And, yes, Arabs were building cities before Islam! What are you talking about? The Sabeans, the Thamudians, the Nabatians, the Palmyrenes and so on were living in lavish cities hundreds, if not thousands, of years before Islam.
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Old December 29th, 2010, 06:58 PM   #263
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i believe that there is no specific islamic architecture. to me islamic architecture is based on its principal as well as the functions of that specific building. islamic architecture exist but in temrs of its principal. sorry for poor english.
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Old December 29th, 2010, 07:11 PM   #264
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What is this kurgan? it is not related to stupa. Please not make your new theory.

Greco-Buddhism only influence some region, not all region.
Certainly influenced most of North India. Before Islam made inroads into the region there was a heavy greek influence on the local art form. Read about the Gandhara civilization in Northern Pakistan - they were making splendid statues of buddhist motifs in the greek sculptural style!

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Even the above wikipedia article you quote about Graeco-Buddhism acknowledges that stupas were Buddhist and that the Greeks recognized them as such. Specifically, the article states:

A large Greek city built by Demetrius and rebuilt by Menander has been excavated at the archaeological site of Sirkap near Taxila, where Buddhist stupas were standing side-by-side with Hindu and Greek temples, indicating religious tolerance and syncretism.
Completely true. The Greeks who came and settled in Afghanistan / North Pakistan had a tremendous influence on the art and architecture of the region and after some time got fully integrated in regional society. There were buddhists making stupas before as well as after the Greek influence and the tremendous difference in form can be seen in the architecture of the Gandhara civilization of Northern Pakistan. By the way, the Greeks became buddhists as well (and later Muslim) so its only obvious that their architecture would reflect some of their influence. Same case with Persia and Islamic architecture of former Persian lands.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gandhara


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Originally Posted by Mekky II View Post
You know, big thinkers have good ideas only between 10 or 20 years. All other years of their lifes are only conservative ones and try to make thinking other peoples they are right. For me, there is no fixed history, nore there is a fixed architecture, and even more a fixed religion... what will be atheist architecture ? this ?

I would rather believe somebody who has at least studied the subject rather than a layperson.

By the way, by your definition, since the Willis Tower was designed by a Muslim, it would be Muslim architecture.




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Originally Posted by Mekky II View Post
Yes, because europeans did give a name to their evolutions (like catalan modernism for gaudi works in Barcelona), and not simply put into "christian architecture".
May I remind you that sub-categorization exists in ISLAMIC architecture as well? This grouping is accepted by world scholars of architecture like it or not. And like it has been repeated thousands of times before in this thread, there exists categories like Mughal Architecture, Ottoman Architecture, Moorish Architecture, Mameluk architecture, Timurid Architecture, Safavid Architecture, etc etc. as well which are on the whole grouped in the Architecture of Islamic lands. But maybe either your curriculum didn't cover those or you were asleep in class when these were being studied.

Last edited by swerveut; December 29th, 2010 at 07:22 PM.
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Old December 29th, 2010, 07:21 PM   #265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by memot_jr_jr View Post
i believe that there is no specific islamic architecture. to me islamic architecture is based on its principal as well as the functions of that specific building. islamic architecture exist but in temrs of its principal. sorry for poor english.
Yes your post same as my post before. Islamic architecture is some rules for build mosque and other building. Other decoration and detail and construction method cannot say "Islamic" or religious.

Islamic mosque can be made from glass and steel also like modern building, but then we cannot call the style as "islamic". Same for older method also.
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Old December 29th, 2010, 07:32 PM   #266
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I would rather believe somebody who has at least studied the subject rather than a layperson.

By the way, by your definition, since the Willis Tower was designed by a Muslim, it would be Muslim architecture.

May I remind you that sub-categorization exists in ISLAMIC architecture as well? This grouping is accepted by world scholars of architecture like it or not. And like said thousands of times before, there exists categories like Mughal Architecture, Ottoman Architecture, Moorish Architecture, Mameluk architecture, Timurid Architecture, Safavid Architecture, etc etc. but maybe either your curriculum didn't cover those or you were asleep in class when these were being studied.
I would prefer to follow an inventor with new ideas that an archaist that studied very hard the past. That's one reason why industrial revolution was in Europe. But everyone has the right to choose its path.

I gave no definition at all, so putting words in my mouth is pure allegory.

Skyscrapers did take their modern form in USA and are originally from Bologna, towers were symbol of family powers, and modern skyscrapers are still a symbol of power for some families and especially companies.

Bologna in middle-age :



Also for infos, it's westerners that classified sub-groups of the supposed "islamic" architecture, a little correction in the big bazar
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Old December 29th, 2010, 08:05 PM   #267
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I notice that the delusional ones are not just the iranis here.

Awesome.

Shortage of IQ and ignorance abounds in all corners of the world.
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Old December 29th, 2010, 08:06 PM   #268
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We are not specifically talking about contemporary architecture here.

We are talking about the art and architecture of more than a THOUSAND YEARS -- an architecture where distinct elements remained the same for centuries. Have you lived a thousand years, perhaps? And how long have you been in this planet to voice your "expert" opinion, may I ask? Have you spent most of your life studying architecture? Clearly NOT.

And how many times do you have to be told that Islam is more than a religion: it is a CULTURE.

If there is no fixed architecture, can you tell me what the Basilican plan is? Has it changed in the last 2000 YEARS, may I ask?

Frankly, your comments are a bit ridiculous...


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Originally Posted by Mekky II View Post
You know, big thinkers have good ideas only between 10 or 20 years. All other years of their lifes are only conservative ones and try to make thinking other peoples they are right. For me, there is no fixed history, nore there is a fixed architecture, and even more a fixed religion... what will be atheist architecture ? this ?

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Old December 29th, 2010, 08:07 PM   #269
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Originally Posted by end2012 View Post
Yes your post same as my post before. Islamic architecture is some rules for build mosque and other building. Other decoration and detail and construction method cannot say "Islamic" or religious.

Islamic mosque can be made from glass and steel also like modern building, but then we cannot call the style as "islamic". Same for older method also.
that is the beauty of it. it is diverse. islamic architecture is like the religion itself. it will be suitable for mankind until the end of time. it is flexible but still abide to the principal of Islam. you can make anything as your imagination goes but make sure that it doesnt contain human/animal forms. plants are good inspirations because they are just beautiful.

building method is a form of technology.

besides, architecture is a branch of art. so, it must follow the rules of art in islam.
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Old December 29th, 2010, 08:13 PM   #270
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that is the beauty of it. it is diverse. islamic architecture is like the religion itself. it will be suitable for mankind until the end of time. it is flexible but still abide to the principal of Islam. you can make anything as your imagination goes but make sure that it doesnt contain human/animal forms. plants are good inspirations because they are just beautiful.

building method is a form of technology.

besides, architecture is a branch of art. so, it must follow the rules of art in islam.
I pretty much agree with what you say here.
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Old December 29th, 2010, 08:37 PM   #271
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This is false argument. Religion is not suitable for mankind firstly, so Islam superstition not better than Zoroastrian superstition or Christianity superstition or Buddhism supertition.

Islam very aggressive. Try to make everybody Muslim forcefully.
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Old December 29th, 2010, 08:40 PM   #272
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And how many times do you have to be told that Islam is more than a religion: it is a CULTURE
The culture of Persia is as close to Saudi Arabia as USA is close of China.
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Old December 29th, 2010, 08:43 PM   #273
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I notice that the delusional ones are not just the iranis here.

Awesome.

Shortage of IQ and ignorance abounds in all corners of the world.
Beware of your insane words ! Some parts of the world lost their IQ either when people moved from Indus to Ganga.
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Old December 29th, 2010, 08:49 PM   #274
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Are these apartment blocks in Antalya counted as a part of "Islamic" architecture?
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Old December 29th, 2010, 09:01 PM   #275
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Not now. Maybe after 100 year it become part of "Ancient Islamic architecture"
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Old December 29th, 2010, 09:31 PM   #276
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The culture of Persia is as close to Saudi Arabia as USA is close of China.
Islamic culture contains many cultures. As has been said many many times on this thread, not all Persian culture is Islamic, and not all Islamic Culture is Persian. Similarly, not all Buddhist culture is Chinese, and not all Chinese culture is Buddhist. Not all Byzantine culture is Christian, and not all Christian culture is Byzantine.

Is this very difficult to understand?
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Old December 29th, 2010, 09:33 PM   #277
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Generalization is not always good for Muslims, the same westerners who call different architectures of Muslims as "Islamic Architecture", also talk about "Islamic Terrorism" and extend the false actions of some Muslims to the whole Muslims of the world.
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Old December 29th, 2010, 09:34 PM   #278
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Please read all previous posts before you waste people's time posting such nonesense.

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Are these apartment blocks in Antalya counted as a part of "Islamic" architecture?
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Old December 29th, 2010, 09:41 PM   #279
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So you are now linking architecture with terrorism?

Seriously, please think over what you want to post before actually posting it. Else, you will end up embarrassing yourself with such rubbish.

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Generalization is not always good for Muslims, the same westerners who call different architectures of Muslims as "Islamic Architecture", also talk about "Islamic Terrorism" and extend the false actions of some Muslims to the whole Muslims of the world.
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Old December 29th, 2010, 10:05 PM   #280
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So you are now linking architecture with terrorism?

Seriously, please think over what you want to post before actually posting it. Else, you will end up embarrassing yourself with such rubbish.
I talked about "Generalization" and "Islamic Terorism" was just an example, anyway I think architecture and terrorism can be linked to each other too, If you link the architecture of some people in a village in Indonesia in the south east Asia with the architecture of some other people in Senegal in the west of Africa just because both of them are Muslims!!!
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