Is there Islamic Architecture?

[swerveut]

Originally Posted by Marathaman

People will believe anything if they are indoctrinated properly. If it is indeed the case that very few muslims become atheists/agnostics openly, it's because they are indoctrinated much more effectively, not to mention social and family pressures. Nothing to do with some inherent awesomeness of Islam.

Thats bogus. If you believe this indoctrination is really good, then obviously, it appeals to people's rational senses. There can be no explanation otherwise.

Originally Posted by Marathaman

There is too much emphasis on strengthening the perceived link between Islamic beliefs and so-called Islamic architecture, as if the architecture was spawned from the religion itself. Nothing of the sort of course. Muslim architects simply modified and developed styles available at the time, just like they do today.

If you would read the thread earlier, nobody is claiming that Muslims (a VERY DIVERSE group of people) invented this architecture. Obviously it was regional architecture modified according to Islamic rules and in order to serve Islamic purposes due to which some distinctive stylistic elements developed which would not have done so otherwise to the same extent.

Originally Posted by b3ta

I think the term 'Islamic Architecture' is very Euro-centric. It lumps in the architecture of all the vast Islamic world into one broad categorization, when in fact the regions have different architectural styles. This is why I voted No.

Nobody is claiming otherwise. It is indeed an overall grouping signifying the architecture of the Islamic regions. There are thousands of sub-classifications within this broad grouping.

Originally Posted by SoroushPersepolisi

and also, u mentioned islamic philosophy influencing persian architecture??? LOL persian philosophy is arguiably what even caused islamic philosophy to exist. man u need to do some reading

science and technology of the "islamic golden age" is mostly of iran, as prophet muhammad said "If learning and Knowledge were suspended in the highest parts of heaven, the Persians would attain it" - Muhammad (pbuh)

Read what I said again:
"As I have said many times before, only thing that warrants a certain styles inclusion in the Islamic group is because it follows a philosophy molded by any of the Islamic rules - patterns as opposed to pictures, gardens of heaven, towers to call people to prayer, hypostyle or valuted halls to accomodate rows of worshippers, symmetry depicting the unity of god, etc. etc."

We are not talking about existential philosophy here but more about a lifestyle or way of thinking molded by the restrictions or the requirements of Islam.

Cheers.

[Marathaman]

Originally Posted by swerveut

Thats bogus. If you believe this indoctrination is really good, then obviously, it appeals to people's rational senses. There can be no explanation otherwise.

Indoctrination appeals to the emotions, not to rationality. That's called science. "Good indoctrination" is a result of repetition, social isolation and groupthink.

If you would read the thread earlier, nobody is claiming that Muslims (a VERY DIVERSE group of people) invented this architecture. Obviously it was regional architecture modified according to Islamic rules and in order to serve Islamic purposes due to which some distinctive stylistic elements developed which would not have done so otherwise to the same extent.

Fair enough, but I have encountered this attitude myself on several occasions. Hence my post.

[Leander]

No, but it'd be pretty ugly.

[Cyrus]

Let's see some pics of Islamic sculpture and painting from about 500 years ago, you can see Islamic nudity, Islamic dancing, Islamic drinking wine and some other Islamic things in these pics:

[Face81]

Some examples from the United Arab Emirates:

1) Turkish Mosque, Sharjah, United Arab Emirates







[IMG]http://i51.************/21lsns0.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i56.************/9a372d.jpg[/IMG]


2) Jumeirah Mosque, Dubai, United Arab Emirates









[IMG]http://i56.************/iwk8r7.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i55.************/2zi79f8.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i52.************/18ochg.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i56.************/21jce1h.jpg[/IMG]


3) Sheikh Zayed Bin Sultan Al Nahyan Mosque, Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates

[IMG]http://i26.************/95vfc3.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i32.************/98h6cy.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i32.************/308y844.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i29.************/2hqukxv.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i53.************/rizxbq.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i51.************/nlyi5e.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i51.************/676p9f.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i53.************/2ce45eq.jpg[/IMG]

[Triple C]

Anyone knows the historical section plans of Haram mosque of Mecca, where Kaaba is located?

Or, is there any Islamic urban planning?

[SoroushPersepolisi]

Originally Posted by Triple C

Anyone knows the historical section plans of Haram mosque of Mecca, where Kaaba is located?

Or, is there any Islamic urban planning?

to be honest its hard to find the old plan, az the new mosque has just trumpled over they old ones

and islamic urban planning?? i would say no, the urban planning would be relevant to the country it would be in, rather than religion

same thing with europe, theres no real "christian urban planning", lol but rather related to the country it is in

[SoroushPersepolisi]

Originally Posted by idiamindada

where did you learn architecture, my friend?

Skyscraper is American invention to be precise.

Taj Mahal is indeed Indo-Persian.

what make things 'Islamic' is….the philosophy in designing the architecture. then it becomes Islamic Architecture.

do you understand?

skyscrapers arent inventions, their innovations,

and americans arent the only ones that innovated them, tall buildings were developed over time in many places , although maybe the first modern looking skyscrapers were in america, the build up to that stage was not american, maybe the application was though

[SoroushPersepolisi]

Originally Posted by Face81

Some examples from the United Arab Emirates:

1) Turkish Mosque, Sharjah, United Arab Emirates




[IMG]http://i29.]

that looks really cool

[Face81]

The Al Noor Mosque in Sharjah lit up as part of the Sharjah Light Festival 2011:


[IMG]http://i52.************/osxuu1.jpg[/IMG]

[AbuAseel]

It seems to me from reading this post that the writer has a combination of ignorance in architecture history and theory and possibly extremism to his/her own culture and hateful of others.
it's very simple; Islamic architecture does exist and it did brow from Persians (which existed before Islam, no one denying this) byzantine and others. Islamic architecture/art borrowed from those cultures some features but made it very beautifully because it eliminated the extensive decoration and figure art. while applying unique geometrical shapes and Arabic calligraphy. This my opinion not because i am a Muslim but because i am an architect and i appreciate art. you can ask other s about this, ask Jorn Utzon and other architects who were influenced by Islamic architecture.

now your concerned why is it called Islamic architecture and most people have answered your question and because this was developed when islam dominated most of the world and applied its principles. it does not have anything to do with the faith. every architecture "type" in history was evolved and influenced by its precedents. Persian architecture for example did not exist from nothing and certainly it wasn't the first civilization in the world. you have Mesopotamian, Babylonians and other civilization that existed prior.

another concern of yours was about why when Islamic architecture barrows from Persian like minraht or whatever else you said, why is it still called "Islamic"?. well you can call it whatever you want, you can remove the word "islamic" and call it the "architecture of the people who were muslims and borrowed from ancient Persian architecture". if that's going to make sense to you can call it that. However it doesn't change anything about the architecture and its beauty. it will still be known throughout history as Islamic architecture to Muslims and non-Muslims because that is the name it became known as. Early Christian architecture and gothic architecture is an example. it borrowed from Romans but it doesn't change its name.

Islamic architecture is vey generic term and many other types of architecture falls under Islamic architecture including Persian architecture.
but you can say that ancient Persian architecture is not Islamic architecture you certainly can because it isn't. But after Islam dominated Persia and it became part of the Islamic empire the architecture of that region is now falls under Islamic architecture. this how history works we don't have the power to change it.

Lastly when you say the Arab has no architecture before Islam and they only had tents i say you are very ignorant. you are probably referring at the desert which is now largely Saudi Arabia but have you ever bothered to study the Arab civilizations that existed in what is now Yemen and were one the most rich and advanced kingdoms in history.

[Rev Stickleback]

I think it would be daft to not recognise mosques as being islamic architecture. They are the very embodiment of it, just as churches and cathedrals are examples of Christian architecture.

Nobody though talks of architectural styles in Europe (beyond churches) as being Christian architecture. So what is the style of building in the Arabic world if you don't include mosques? What would be the best other examples of architecture of the region?

[El_Greco]

Most of the new mosques are absolutely tragic, but Al Nahyan Mosque seems to be an exception - it looks great - I like all the whiteness!

[Deco]

I don't know.
Soon I'll read this thread.

[tallmark]

Originally Posted by tpe

Are you saying that a mihrab is equivalent to a Mithraic altar?

If so, then please name me ONE Mithraeum that was intentionally oriented towards MECCA (as is the case with all mihrabs).

Answer: there are NONE. Do not be ridiculous.

Moral of the story: do not confuse Etymology with Architecture.

Just because "Paradise" is derived for the Persian word for Garden does not mean that Heaven is LITERALLY a Persian Garden!

Muslims prayer towards Jerusalem for the first 10 years of Islam. It was the Prophet himself that changed the direction to Mecca when he fell out with the Medinan Jews following the Battle of Badr. So, the Mehrabs faced Jerusalem not Mecca. After that, they face Mecca. So, the idea of a Mehraba is Iranian, but various religions can choose where it faces. Islam itself switched it twice. The Mosque of Two Qiblas in Medina actually has two: one facing Jerusalem, another facing Mecca. It is a reminder that it was in this Mosque that the Prophet switched the direction.

[tallmark]

Originally Posted by guy4versa4

u need to admit the existed islamic architecture..if tajmahal is moghul,samarra mosque tower is persian..what type of architecture is this>

An American Mega Church, all glass and all steel. One must be blind to see this as "Islamic": it is purely modern Western architecture, based on Greek and Roman (notice the columns all around it, exactly as the ancient Greek temples had it)

[manhuelofspain]

Valencia (Spain) "baños del almirante"image hosted on flickr

Puerta de los Baños del Almirante. Valencia por Trix: El finde al balneario con mi mami y mi tita, en Flickr

[CNB30]

you might as well ask if there is Greek architecture, of course there is Islamic architecture.

Is this a joke?

[SoroushPersepolisi]

ok then , if there is such un-clarity, we should all call newton, galileo, davinci and edison christian scientist, or lump them all even in a more general way, as scientists of the "world of christianity"

heck, the tower of london , big ben and all of paris and rome etc are all part of "chrisitan architecture"

why we oppose such thought is not merely by technical aspects, but culturally and for IDENTITY.

the west lumps us all together by sheep, calling our buildings, people etc all as "islamic", but for themeselves, they always respect the ethnicity, nationality etc of the person/place or thing

calling avincenna just an "islamic" scholar is like spitting on persians/iranians
not that islamic is bad, but u guys are stripping all of our national identity by such a small statement
not to mention many of the scientists and poets were pretty much against theocratic ideologies
some were even anti religion , like omar khayyam, which is labeled as an islamic poet

[tanklv]

Of course there is/was.

To claim anything else is ridiculous!

And that is not just my opinion.