Is there Islamic Architecture?

[tpe]

Originally Posted by hadeer992

I think the mosques represent the true Islamic architecture, which usually consist of domes and minarets

Domes are not necessary. to be sure.

And so long as there is a high enough place to perform the call to prayer, minarets too can be thought of as incidental. But as Islamic architecture evolved, minarets indeed became fixtures.

One would think that water was necessary for the required ablutions. But ablution using sand is permissible. Still, fountains also became a fixture.

Lastly, the requirement of a mihrab simply came about with the need for proper orientation.

[minba]

Originally Posted by Muttie

Then again, these kind of topics tend to pop-up during these days when anti-islamism is abundant.

anti-islamism?, get over your self my friend. You guys started those trouble yourselves. Don't be such a hater man Keep the topic clean and sober.

[end2012]

Originally Posted by tpe

Domes are not necessary. to be sure.

And so long as there is a high enough place to perform the call to prayer, minarets too can be thought of as incidental. But as Islamic architecture evolved, minarets indeed became fixtures.

One would think that water was necessary for the required ablutions. But ablution using sand is permissible. Still, fountains also became a fixture.

Lastly, the requirement of a mihrab simply came about with the need for proper orientation.

Still people say...arch is "Islamic", dome is "Islamic'....everything is Islamic. Very imperialistic....

Maybe "Christian architecture" exist but usually term Baroque, Gothic, Classical etc. is being used that is appropriate. Nobody claim that everything belong to Christianity religion because such technique and style used in secular building and some other religion also.

[desertpunk]

No. There is adaptive Mughal architecture that may be called "Islamic" by some. Not that it's a big deal either way...

[tpe]

Although Mughal incorporates art and architecture derived from the subcontinent and even Europe, it is largely Persianate, and above all else, Timurid.

After all, Babur claimed to be the heir of the Timurid hemogeny, and, by ultimate deduction, to the great Chinghiz Khan himself.

[KWT]

Originally Posted by minba

anti-islamism?, get over your self my friend. You guys started those trouble yourselves. Don't be such a hater man Keep the topic clean and sober.

LOL. Look at the pot calling the kettle black.

[end2012]

Mughal architecture also very diversified. The open pillar hall type palace is derived from the Indian template of pillar halls (thou it exist in other cultures also). Maybe the style of Gates, Mosques, Tombs is mostly Persian but Emperor Akbar built his capital Fatehpur Sikri in Hindu (Gujarat) -style carving and construction technique. So it is different in different period. The Mughal pavilion type is derived from Bengal-type pavilion and so on...

[Adrian12345Lugo]

I dont see what the fuss is, most styles of architecture derive from older styles of architecture.

[tpe]

Originally Posted by end2012

Mughal architecture also very diversified. The open pillar hall type palace is derived from the Indian template of pillar halls (thou it exist in other cultures also). Maybe the style of Gates, Mosques, Tombs is mostly Persian but Emperor Akbar built his capital Fatehpur Sikri in Hindu-style carving and construction technique. So it is different in different period.

The Court of Akbar was very cosmopolitan. And many devout moslems would also claim: heterodox. He encouraged debate among the religions -- the Jesuits took particular care to be properly represented at his court, as did the Buddhists and the Hindu religions.

The art is similarly heterodox. Mughal painting in the court of Akbar showed heavy influence in European modeling -- certainly very different from the more brilliant and decorative but flatter Persian miniature painting of the period. The art and architecture was certainly influenced by the subcontinent, as well as by persian and european models and even Chinese (as in the so-called Mughal style of Jade carving.)

[KWT]

Originally Posted by end2012

Still people say...arch is "Islamic", dome is "Islamic'....everything is Islamic. Very imperialistic....

Maybe "Christian architecture" exist but usually term Baroque, Gothic, Classical etc. is being used that is appropriate. Nobody claim that everything belong to Christianity religion because such technique and style used in secular building and some other religion also.

There are different types of Islamic architecture too! Abbassid, Mamluke, Umayyad, Ayyubid, Fatimid, Safavid, Ottoman, Seljuk, Mughal, Andalucian and so on (did you know that? Or do you just say things without knowing what you're talking about?), and they are references, influences and continuations of each other, not seperate entities that have nothing to do with each other, and guess what the common denominator is?....

...It's Islam.

I understand that the terminology is somewhat problematic, but so is the term "Western" architecture, it's just the nature of naming things. But to deny an entire artistic culture and claim it as your own (our friend Cyrus here, and many other Iranians, hypothesises that all "Islamic" architecture is actually Sassanian - LOL), it just reaks of an inferiority complex and malicious revisionism.

[end2012]

I think tpe is expert and he is also sincere. KWT you are become defensive and accusative.

Personally, I think architecture should not be named as per dominant religion, but other criteria should use. Anyway, I think I am convinced.

Maybe Cyrus is Persian nationalist but he is correct also. Persian influence is dominant in so-called Islamic architecture so it is unfair to not recognize. Without Islam Persian architecture would be on same lines, maybe bit different for purpose sake. Islam mosque design was very different before conquest of Persia and Anatolia.

[KWT]

Originally Posted by Adrian12345Lugo

I dont see what the fuss is, most styles of architecture derive from older styles of architecture.

I know, seriously. But that's of no interest to the person who started this poll.

[idiamindada]

Originally Posted by KWT

I think Cyrus thinks this is a rhetorical question, so I'm not sure why he's even bothering to ask people if he thinks he knows the answer. Unless this is just a thinly veiled pretext to convey obvious contemptuous sentiments. Against whom does he harbor this contempt? I can only take a wild guess LOL.

Cyrus, do you propose we change the name from Islamic architecture to Persian architecture because some regions of the Abbassid Empire (mainly Iran and modern-day Iraq) had Sassanian influences? Should we change the name of Roman, Baroque and Renaissance architecture to Greek architecture? Because, you know, they borrowed a lot more from Greece than "Islamic" architecture did from the Sassanians. Actually the Greeks borrowed from even earlier civilizations and developed their own unique architecture. This sort of thing happens everywhere, but nobody makes a big deal out of it. Only when it comes to Islamic architecture do people like you start saying preposterous things like (I'm paraphrasing here) "Islamic architecture doesn't exist...everything is Persian" or some other moron says "the Taj Mahal is Italian and Hindu". Ridiculous.

If you have a problem with the nomenclature, then give us an alternative (please don't say Persian, because you're gonna put your foot in your mouth). But obviously you don't give a shit about that because by posting this thread you think you're doing some sort of "service" to Persian culture.

100% agree with you.

i can see a moron here too. he has 0 knowledge in architecture yet still wanna argue about it. shameful.

if someone don't know any particular subject, one must either:

1. Ask politely what it is; or
2. Shut up!

[KWT]

Originally Posted by end2012

I think tpe is expert and he is also sincere. KWT you are become defensive and accusative.

Personally, I think architecture should not be named as per dominant religion, but other criteria should use. Anyway, I think I am convinced.

Maybe Cyrus is Persian nationalist but he is correct also. Persian influence is dominant in so-called Islamic architecture so it is unfair to not recognize. Without Islam Persian architecture would be on same lines, maybe bit different for purpose sake.

Nobody here is saying that there are no Sassanian influences in Islamic architecture.

[Cyrus]

Unfortunately ignorant people, especially biased religionists, exist everywhere, they usually consider their own beliefs as the most important things in the world and ignore other facts, the fact is that architecture is a social art which can be influenced by many factors like climate, geography, culture and of course religion, so we can talk about the architecture of a society, like Moroccan architecture, but not Warm architecture, Desert architecture, Arabic-speaking architecture and Islamic architecture, because there are different architectures in the societies of warm climate, desert, Arabic-speaking and Islamic regions.

[Muttie]

Originally Posted by Cyrus

Unfortunately ignorant people, especially biased religionists, exist everywhere, they usually consider their own beliefs as the most important things in the world and ignore other facts, the fact is that architecture is a social art which can be influenced by many factors like climate, geography, culture and of course religion, so we can talk about the architecture of a society, like Moroccan architecture, but not Warm architecture, Desert architecture, Arabic-speaking architecture and Islamic architecture, because there are different architectures in the societies of warm climate, desert, Arabic-speaking and Islamic regions.

You use some weird reasons to claim Islamic Architecture does not exist. Just like you said we are able to speak about Islamic societies. Hence it is possible to speak about Islamic Architecture. Islamic societies are different from region to region, but this does not mean there cant be Islamic architecture. It simply means that just like with the Islamic societies, the Islamic architecture will be different. The word Islamic architecture features as an umbrella. Within Islamic architecture there is a wide range - Moorish to Persian of architecture. The only condition is that the architecture has been created, invented or extremely modified within an Islamic society - and has therefore suffered a lot of influence from Islamic culture.

Actually Wikipedia explains it pretty well:

Islamic architecture encompasses a wide range of both secular and religious styles from the foundation of Islam to the present day, influencing the design and construction of buildings and structures in Islamic culture.

On that page you will see a small list of types of architecture within the Islamic civilizations:

Persian architecture
Azerbaijani architecture
Moorish architecture
Turkistan (Timurid) architecture
Ottoman Turkish architecture
Fatimid architecture
Mamluk architecture
Islamic (Mughal) architecture
Sino-Islamic architecture
Sahelian-Islamic architecture
Somali-Islamic architecture


Although the architecture will be different from society to society, throughout the Islamic civilizations you will find architectural traits that are the same in nearly every (Islamic) society:

Distinguishing motifs of Islamic architecture have always been ordered repetition, radiating structures, and rhythmic, metric patterns. In this respect, fractal geometry has been a key utility, especially for mosques and palaces. Other significant features employed as motifs include columns, piers and arches, organized and interwoven with alternating sequences of niches and colonnettes.[

As someone else already said before in this thread (which you seem to ignore) most styles of architecture derive from older styles of architecture. As is also the case in most of the Islamic architecture. It's the combination and refinement of these other styles which makes Islamic architecture different.

The best example of Islamic architecture is in my opinion the Moorish architecture which refined the Arab architecture during the rule of the Islamic caliphate. Note that within the Moorish architecture the mosques do not have multiple minarettes and dont have a dome.

[Cyrus]

That is nonsense, Persian architecture is Persian architecture, not Islamic architecture, if there is Islamic architecture then there should be also Christian architecture, Zoroastrian architecture, atheist architecture, ... in fact I don't know what the direct relation between religion and architecture is! Do Quran and other religious books of Islam talk about the methods of architecture?!! I think the problem is "Ummah", some Muslims fool themselves into believing this imaginary concept, it is a clear that Muslims are among the most diverse peoples and societies in the world, even there are big differences between religious beliefs of Muslims, such as Sunni, Shia, Shafii, Wahaabi, Hanafi, Hanbali, Ismaili, Zaidiya, Maliki, ...

[brightside.]

Originally Posted by Cyrus

Islam is the name of a religion and Muslims from Indonesia to Morocco are followers of this religion, after the conquest of Persia, most of Zoroastrian domed fire-temples were converted to mosques and they became the prototype of early Islamic mosques, also Zoroastrian fire-towers which are called Minaret in Arabic, from the root نار (Nar) "fire", were also used as Islamic buildings. You can see Mihrab, the Persian name of Mithraeum, in the mosques too. Other types of mosques, like the ones in Istanbul, were also adopted from the architecture of other peoples, so I believe there is no Islamic architecture, what do you think?

Everything any human being has ever built since we started drawing pictures in caves has had something to do with other people, so I don't get your point. Islamic architecture is unique and even if there are elements of other cultures in there, it has still lots of unique elements in it, it is just as distinct as Christian influenced architecture.

[guy4versa4]

islamic architecture is not a religion moron! its a style.....what wrong with u cyrus..islamic architecture doesnt mean islamic religion architecture..islamic architecture comes from country that have been rules by islamic..its and influance, its shouldnt be about alquran or Prophet,u need to realize,if islam do not conquer persian,there be no persian architecture.....u need to learn more about architecture...dont fool your self

[guy4versa4]

Islamic architecture encompasses a wide range of both secular and religious styles from the foundation of Islam to the present day, influencing the design and construction of buildings and structures in Islamic culture

A specifically recognisable Islamic architectural style emerged soon after Muhammad's time, developing from localized adaptations of Egyptian, Persian/Sassanid and Greek Byzantine models, the Germanic Visigoths in Spain also made a big contribution to Islamic architecture They invented the Horseshoe arch in Spain and used them as one of their main architectural features, After the moorish invasion of spain in 711 AD the form was taken by the Ummayyads who accentuated the curvature of the horseshoe. An early example of Islamic architecture may be identified as early as 691 AD with the completion of the Dome of the Rock (Qubbat al-Sakhrah) in Jerusalem. It featured interior vaulted spaces, a circular dome, and the use of stylized repeating decorative patterns (arabesque).-wikipedia