Is there Islamic Architecture?

[spongeg]

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5 Ridiculous Things You Probably Believe About Islam

[KWT]

Originally Posted by guy4versa4

islamic architecture is not a religion moron! its a style.....what wrong with u cyrus..islamic architecture doesnt mean islamic religion architecture..islamic architecture comes from country that have been rules by islamic..its and influance, its shouldnt be about alquran or Prophet,u need to realize,if islam do not conquer persian,there be no persian architecture.....u need to learn more about architecture...dont fool your self

Persian architecture existed thousands of years before Islam existed. That doesn't mean there is no Islamic architecture.

[Cyrus]

Would someone please tell me what the characteristics of Islamic Architecture are? For example what is an Islamic castle? I mean how can I define that a castle is of Islamic architecture or not? This is an ancient Persian castle, hundreds years before Islam:



Ho do you find that this is an Islamic castle or not?

[guy4versa4]

i mean there is persian architecture,but if islamic dosnt conquer persian..it will not spread around the world..it will became unfamous...
and that picture u show is not islamic architecture at all,perhaps it also doesnt look like persian architecture.its ancient architecture..most of castle wether in europe,spain,asia and even australia hav this style of castle..

[end2012]

Originally Posted by Cyrus

That is nonsense, Persian architecture is Persian architecture, not Islamic architecture, if there is Islamic architecture then there should be also Christian architecture, Zoroastrian architecture, atheist architecture, ... in fact I don't know what the direct relation between religion and architecture is! Do Quran and other religious books of Islam talk about the methods of architecture?!! I think the problem is "Ummah", some Muslims fool themselves into believing this imaginary concept, it is a clear that Muslims are among the most diverse peoples and societies in the world, even there are big differences between religious beliefs of Muslims, such as Sunni, Shia, Shafii, Wahaabi, Hanafi, Hanbali, Ismaili, Zaidiya, Maliki, ...

Yes, Nothing like "Islamic" architecture.

Architecture belong to country and people, not to religion.

Religion people justify conquer and subjugation by stealing local thing and saying it belong to them.

[KWT]

Originally Posted by Cyrus

Would someone please tell me what the characteristics of Islamic Architecture are? For example what is an Islamic castle? I mean how can I define that a castle is of Islamic architecture or not? This is an ancient Persian castle, hundreds years before Islam:



Ho do you find that this is an Islamic castle or not?

Are you for real? You're just trying to nitpick. Look up Mamluke, Ayyubid, and Fatimid architecture...see a link between them? These three styles are named after dynasties of three different ethnicities: Arab, Kurdish, and Turkic. Yet they are extremely close aesthetically. Give me an example of an architecture that has existed before them, that are 100% exactly the same (not vague references).

Muqarnas, many different types of arches, columns, and domes, geometric desings, masonry work, woodwork and so on...some of these have some precedent in previous cultures but SO F***ING WHAT?...Jesus.


There are muqarnas in Sevilla and there are muqarnas in Samarkand....what a coincidence!

PS: That castle could be in southern Europe as well. Does that mean they copied Sassanian architecture as well LOL? Look up the citadel in Aleppo...that's an Islamic castle.

[KWT]

Originally Posted by end2012

Yes, Nothing like "Islamic" architecture.

Architecture belong to country and people, not to religion.

Religion people justify conquer and subjugation by stealing local thing and saying it belong to them.

You know nothing.

[Cyrus]

Islam is just a religion, nothing more, and this religion doesn't talk about the architecture, your religious bias is really ridiculous, for what reason you relate the natural developments in the science of architecture to your holy religion?!! Maybe if a Muslim architect changes his religion and converts to another religion then his knowledge of architecture will be changed too?!! I think talking about "Islamic Architecture" gave good reasons to some Arabs to steal the architectural styles of Persians and introduce them as their own architecture, like Persian Badgirs (Wind Towers), Kariz (Qanat), ....

[Anabase]

Originally Posted by Cyrus

That is nonsense, Persian architecture is Persian architecture, not Islamic architecture, if there is Islamic architecture then there should be also Christian architecture, Zoroastrian architecture, atheist architecture, ... in fact I don't know what the direct relation between religion and architecture is! Do Quran and other religious books of Islam talk about the methods of architecture?!! I think the problem is "Ummah", some Muslims fool themselves into believing this imaginary concept, it is a clear that Muslims are among the most diverse peoples and societies in the world, even there are big differences between religious beliefs of Muslims, such as Sunni, Shia, Shafii, Wahaabi, Hanafi, Hanbali, Ismaili, Zaidiya, Maliki, ...

You don't seem to be well informed about Islam, and this aspect distorted all the rest downstream. Putting Shia, Sunni, Hanafi, Maliki in the same range illustrate your complete ignorance of the subtleties of this religion. First of all the Hanafi, Hanbali, Maliki and Shafii schools are not "religious beliefs" within sunnism, but simply schools of jurisprudence, witch it means they share the same dogmatics beliefs, but they differ slightly and exclusively in the ramifications of some jurisprudential points. Which is not the case of Shiism or other sects who differs from Sunnis in the Dogma itself. Anyway, the Ummah (Nation) concept concerns exclusively Sunni (90% of the World Muslims) and the diversity of their jurisprudential schools doesn't question in any way their common beliefs or fraternity.

Secondly, Islam is not strictly speaking a religion. It's more, It's a whole system where the profane and the sacred are inextricably mixed in the base, unlike Christianity where the demarcation between the two concepts exist from the beginning. You should know that not only the prophet of Islam was a religious chief, but he was also a head of state, so there is no distinction in Islam between secular affairs and spiritual ones. Thus, you can see there is a Family law in Islam, a Commercial law, a Civic law…etc. and all those different institutional packages rule and regulate the public life of muslims and the affairs of their State. This is the reason why we talk about Islamic finance, and why you'll never hear something about Christian finance. So knowing that don't be outraged or appalled about the utilization of the "Islamic Architecture"'s terminology.

In the past, diverse peoples converted to Islam, in different parts of the world and brought their specificities, traditions and technics to this civilization. Just like the contribution of the Etruscans, the Sabellians and the Greek peoples to the Roman culture and architecture; Though nobody takes offense and deny the "Roman architecture"'s terminology to the monuments and structures that Roman People have built, just because it's partly inherited from people they conquered...

[tpe]

Suffice to say for now that for me, the term "Islamic Architecture" and "Christian Architecture" are valid terminologies.

It's not like this topic hasn't been discussed before, you know. There are numerous books about the subject, and the terms and conditions are more rigorously defined than what has been discussed here so far.

Remember that "religious architecture" is architecture applied to meet the requirements and conditions applied in the service of religion.

The styles don't have to be the same.

The perfect example of this in "Christian Architrecture" is the BASILICAN PLAN in Chruch architecture, consisting of a central nave and 2 or 4 side aisles. The basilican plan started out as a ROMAN plan for a type of building that served as the Emperor's or King's legal/magisterial court -- hence BASILICA or KING's HALL. But this plan was appropriated and modified as THE architecture of worship in the Christian church, and this plan helped determine the form of the liturgy in the Catholic Church for centuries to come.

There are similar arguments on how Mosque architecture evolved to suit the needs of what was then a new religion (Islam). I can discuss this in greater length if there is sufficient interest.

Otherwise, please consult the standard literature of the past 100 years (at least!) regarding this subject.

[Anabase]

Originally Posted by tpe

Remember that "religious architecture" is architecture applied to meet the requirements and conditions applied in the service of religion.

Like I've said before, there is no distinction in Islam between spiritual affairs and terrestrial ones. For muslims, a mosque is not a temple but a public place where we perform religious rituals as well as educational, social activities and political meetings (Don't forget that the oldest universities in the world was in fact mosques, for example Al-Azhar University). Your postulate would be true if islamic architecture was circumscribed and limited only to "religious" building. Otherwise how can you explain, the utilization of this architecture in non-religious function building?

Examples:
The mayor of Beirut


Government building Constantine, Algeria

[tpe]

Does the mayor's palace in Beirut contain a mihrab? Why should a building have one in the first place?

And "service of religion" does NOT mean just worship. Did you know that the University of Paris started in a CHURCH building?

The point I was making with my comments on BASILICAN architecture is that it was perfect for bringing together a large number of people for lectures and sermons -- not always liturgical.

As I said, please refer to the standard literature of the last 100 or more years. The definitions there are not as narrow and vague as the ones discussed here.

Originally Posted by Anabase

Like I've said before, there is no distinction in Islam between spiritual affairs and terrestrial ones. For muslims, a mosque is not a temple but a public place where we perform religious rituals as well as educational, social activities and political meetings (Don't forget that the oldest universities in the world was in fact mosques, for example Al-Azhar University). Your postulate would be true if islamic architecture was circumscribed and limited only to "religious" building. Otherwise how can you explain, the utilization of this architecture in non-religious function building?

Examples:
The mayor of Beirut


Government building Constantine, Algeria

[tpe]

For those of you who are too lazy to be up to date on the subject matter, may I suggest that you start with The Hermeneutics of Sacred Architecture: Experience, Interpretation, Comparison by Lindsay Jones.

This is philosophical enough to apply to ALL religions -- dead or alive.

[Anabase]

Originally Posted by tpe

Does the mayor's palace in Beirut contain a mihrab? Why should a building have one in the first place?

I don't get your point, is the presence of a mihrab the ultimate criterion for you to determine wether it's islamic or not ? As you know, the presence of a mihrab isn't mandatory for the "viability" of a mosque in Islam as well as the minaret, their role in amplification of the Imam's voice (respectively inside and outside) can easily be replaced by speakers. And their presence in the mosque nowadays respond more to an aesthetical need then to a practical one. Do I have to understand that for you a mosque without those elements can't be related to "islamic architecture", knowing that any simple room or hall can do the trick?

[swerveut]

Guys, no architecture developed in isolation. Even the ancient Greeks developed their use of columned spaces and post-and-lintel massing taking inspiration from Egypt. Arches and domes existed in Anatolia and Persia LONG before Rome adopted them for its use. The Gothic vault and pointed arches were directly inspired from Muslim Spain and contact with the Muslim East during the crusades.

There is no architecture that can directly be called a religious architecture. However religion has a tremendous influence on architectural motifs which can have a tremendous impact on the style - thus resulting in the labelling of religious architecture.

For example:
- Christian architecture uses a lot of statuary in its motifs. This is entirely unheard of in Muslim architecture.

- Muslim architecture makes extensive use of Geometric motifs, plant inspired filigree, and colored tiling in its architecture that directly is inspired from the fact that Islam bans the use of statuary and paintings of living forms in its religious buildings. You do find paintings of girls dancing in persian palaces, however those are distinct from actual religious architecture and is more of a secular architecture that is of the region itself.

- In Muslim architecture, there is heavy use of calligraphy in decorative or sculptural form that is not used in Christian architecture.

- Whereas Christian architecture primarily borrows from ancient greco-roman or gothic forms for its inspiration, Muslim architecture draws from a very vast diversity of older architectural traditions and successfully adapts them for its use. Therefore, there is the Hagia Sophia and the Blue mosque - where the latter is inspired from the former, however is entirely different in expression. Whereas the Hagia Sophia strove to create an ambience of mystery in its layout (inspired by Christianity), the Blue mosque follows more of an open, bright plan (consistant with the lack of such mystery in Islam). Also, the decorative motifs are vastly different where the Hagia Sophia used mosaics and icons of religious figures and stories, and the Blue Mosque used floral tilework and calligraphy. Also another case: If the Taj Mahal were not inspired by religion, it would have been open to having statuary, painting of people or animals or the like in its motifs. However, the heavy Islamic influence meant that most of the decorative work is either floral or plant form, or religious calligraphy.

- Massing in every religious architecture depends upon what the building is to be used for. Whereas western christian massing is more like the latin cross (for building layout) and the orthodox ones are more like the greek cross layout, muslim buildings usually have no linear plan but instead concentrate on creating a more hall-like space for the prayer rows.

- Another feature only existing in Muslim architecture is the use of courtyards with central ablution fountains, and the profuse use of fountains in palace gardens which is directly inspired from the Islamic imagery of heaven. You may say that water features existed in Pasargadae long before (even though its not for sure and this city was destroyed long before the Muslims came), however they were not as prevalent earlier and did not reach maturity as they became after the influence of Islam. Chehel Sotun (Isfahan) and the Alhambra (in Spain) use "gardens graced with flowing streams (or fountains)" which is the direct translation of the imagery of heaven in the Koran (therefore religiously inspired). The Badshahi Mosque (Pakistan), Ibn Tulun mosque (Egypt), Suleymaniye (Turkey) all use courtyards with ablution fountains in their layout - something that is not present in Christian architecture.

- Also, as pointed rightly earlier, the Christian use of Bell Towers and Muslim use of Minarets is directly inspired by religious utility. Any building that uses such forms afterwards, can be said to be drawing inspiration from religious architecture (case in point Taj Mahal that uses minarets profusely - an architectural element developed exclusively due to Islam).

- Conversely, exclusively non-religious architecture could be akin to the large use of wind-towers in Persian and Gulf Arab architecture which is entirely utilitarian and even though employed by Muslims, has no inspiration from Islam and cannot be called religious architecture.

These are just few points, however I can expand on this and write a whole essay if you want - however, I believe you have got the point. If not, just pick up some good book on Islamic architecture and increase your knowledge.

[Cyrus]

I believe calling Persian, Byzantine and other architectures as Islamic architecture, is an insult to them, the architecture of Muslims can be seen in those tents of the Arabs in the desert, of course Arab tents were set up before Islam too but it is true that Muslims spread them to some other regions.

Courtyard of ancient Persian Tarikhaneh Temple:







More info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarikhaneh_Temple

[end2012]

Islam, like other religion, borrow from other architecture or modify to suit its needs.

Maybe classification should be - "Persian architecture in Islamic style" or "Byzantine architecture in Islamic style". That is correct. Maybe can name after dynasty also like "Mughal".

But wrong to say "Islamic architecture in Persian style". It is misleading. Because origin is Persian. Islam only modify it.

[tpe]

So do you agree that the mihrab is an architectural feature unique to Islam, and is not seen in Christian or Buddhist buildings?

Still not getting it?

Originally Posted by Anabase

I don't get your point, is the presence of a mihrab the ultimate criterion for you to determine wether it's islamic or not ? As you know, the presence of a mihrab isn't mandatory for the "viability" of a mosque in Islam as well as the minaret, their role in amplification of the Imam's voice (respectively inside and outside) can easily be replaced by speakers. And their presence in the mosque nowadays respond more to an aesthetical need then to a practical one. Do I have to understand that for you a mosque without those elements can't be related to "islamic architecture", knowing that any simple room or hall can do the trick?

[tpe]

If some of you persist in still not getting it, I'll try another track.

If there is no such thing as Christian or Islamic, or Buddhist architecture, then can you name me a mosque or a christian church that has a STUPA?

So would you agree that a STUPA is unique to Buddhism, having been (so the story goes) defined by the historical Buddha himself?

[Conqnot]

Masjid El - Nabawi, built by the prophet Mohammed



Masjid El - Haram, built by prophet Ibrahim (Abraham)