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View Poll Results: Is there Islamic Architecture
Yes 137 74.05%
No 36 19.46%
I don't know! 12 6.49%
Voters: 185. You may not vote on this poll

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Old December 23rd, 2010, 09:13 PM   #121
end2012
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How can hippie be like religious soldier .

Hippie want peace, religious soldier want to kill other religion people. Opposite.
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Old December 23rd, 2010, 09:20 PM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomarandlee View Post
Of course it would appeal to you because its a contrived historical whitewash!

That army was about as peace loving and "tolerant" as the Confederate army was progressive in racial acceptance.
For its time in history it was remarkably tolerant. If you want equal (actually unequal comparisons since it was much later in time), compare it to the Christian armies that went on the crusades. Notably ones that sacked Byzantine and Jerusalem. You seem to forget that it was a CONQUEST in the SEVENTH century. We are not talking about post world-war II United Nations times here after the US had already dropped the nuclear bomb and wiped out two entire cities.

Seriously, the tunnel vision of Europeans sometimes amazes me.

Whitewash? please read an unbiased history textbook. This is all fact.

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How can hippie be like religious soldier .

Hippie want peace, religious soldier want to kill other religion people. Opposite.
And we have a literalist here.
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Old December 23rd, 2010, 09:21 PM   #123
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Once again, Islam is not a religion like the others, it's also a culture. You'll never hear someone speaking about a christian finance, but there is an islamic one.
What I am about to say is OT.

Actually, Muslim finance is NOT finance in the traditional sense.

For centuries, Christians and Muslims could not engage in traditional (interest-driven) financial activities because of religious strictures.

Much of finance was in the hands of the Jews who did not have such strictures.

Hence, the first counting houses in Christian and Muslim countries were built by the Jewish diaspora. This is one instance when religion helped define commercial architecture!
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Old December 23rd, 2010, 09:26 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by tpe View Post
Actually, Muslim finance is NOT finance in the traditional sense.
Which is why its called Muslim finance.
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Old December 23rd, 2010, 09:26 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by jb_nl View Post
There is very beautifull architecture in countries with an islamic background. And islam has influenced some religious buildings by their functions: like the waqf (charity, with fountains and schools) system and that mosques are built in the direction of mecca and have some aspects like the mihrab etc.

But as said, it is as impossible to say that a skyscraper in Rotterdam is christian or atheistic in essence like qasr il-3adam would be an islamic building. Yes it was built in an islamic area, so it's all about naming! Mostly we call something islamic when it was built in a region of which the majority is islamic or in a period in which it was islamic or when it was built by islamic craftsman. So that is what we mostly indicate by "islamic". But as said, objectively looking at most buildings (with the exception of some patterns, like mosque functions and waqf systems that are almost the same everywhere), there is nothing specificly islamic about it. A lot has been built or decorated by Byzantinian craftsmen (both in Syria, Palestina and Spain) in their own style, and as said, a lot of elements, like a high tower (minaret, originally same function as a church tower, to recognize it by it's elevation), decoration styles etc. have been lend from societies before islam came over there of have been taken over from others and evoled during some islamic empires and spread. Just like mostly with history, there are some changes in history, but a lot remains the same or gets adopted by the new dynasties, just the same was the case with the architectural styles the empires copied from their preceders when islamic rulers got in power.


So shortly said: if you see islamic architecture als architecture created in what we seem to call the islamic world and a mixture of styles in different areas during islamic empires, then yes, there is some kind of islamic architecture, even though it is very diverse. But if you would like a building in principle islamic atheistic or christian, then no, there isn't. A building doesn't have a religion, only the people who use it or made it.
Good post, countries which are considered as Islamic countries are in fact the lands of the oldest civilizations in the world, these countries were conquered by the peoples of the west and the east, like Greeks and Mongols, the architecture of this region can be said to be the outcome of the mixture of almost all major architectures in the world, and that is really beautifull but it doesn't relate to any religion. Without religious bias, you will see both the impressiveness of European architectre and the artistic of East Asian architectre in a mosuqe or a church, like Vank Cathedral.
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Old December 23rd, 2010, 09:27 PM   #126
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-delete-

Last edited by guy4versa4; December 23rd, 2010 at 09:34 PM.
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Old December 23rd, 2010, 09:29 PM   #127
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Wow this is really beautiful! What is this?

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Old December 23rd, 2010, 09:33 PM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anabase View Post
Once again, Islam is not a religion like the others, it's also a culture. You'll never hear someone speaking about a christian finance, but there is an islamic one.
agree..islam is RELIGION...but for non muslim,its more like culture..a healty way of life

ISLAMIC FASHION

ISLAMIC FOOD

ISLAMIC FONT

ISLAMIC SONG

ISLAMIC FINANCE


Last edited by guy4versa4; December 23rd, 2010 at 09:43 PM.
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Old December 23rd, 2010, 09:36 PM   #129
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Wow this is really beautiful! What is this?
its putrajaya waterfront..highend residence..
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Old December 23rd, 2010, 09:40 PM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tpe View Post
What I am about to say is OT.

Actually, Muslim finance is NOT finance in the traditional sense.

For centuries, Christians and Muslims could not engage in traditional (interest-driven) financial activities because of religious strictures.
Sorry, but I am about to say no too. Where Christians could, doesn't mean Muslims could too, for the simple reasons that Islam prohibits the use of illicit money, whatever its source. And the simple treatment and the mixture of this money with interest-based-structures suffice to make it illicit for muslims, whether the guy who stirs the money is Buddhist/Jews/Raelian or not. So the Jews structure's solution can't make it for muslims.
Plus, I really don't see the link between the banking in the middle ages and the inexistence of an Islamic Finance now.

Last edited by Anabase; December 23rd, 2010 at 10:01 PM.
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Old December 23rd, 2010, 09:59 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by swerveut View Post
You make it sound like all architecture came from Persia. I also know the persian word "Ab" which means water. So Mihr-ab from your concoction is Mithra's water.
LoL! Did you know that Islamabad, capital of Pakistan, also means watery Islam?!
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Old December 23rd, 2010, 10:09 PM   #132
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Again dude, you messed up the etymology. Its not Islam-Ab-ad here, its actually Islam-abad.

Abad means dwelling. And its not a persian word.

Dont embarass yourself. Really.
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Old December 23rd, 2010, 10:29 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by swerveut View Post
Again dude, you messed up the etymology. Its not Islam-Ab-ad here, its actually Islam-abad.

Abad means dwelling. And its not a persian word.

Dont embarass yourself. Really.
The suffix "-abad" is not Persian? so what is it?!!! You seem to be a great etymologist! What is the meaning of "Shahr-ab"? dominion's water?!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran : The Sassanids established an empire roughly within the frontiers achieved by the Achaemenids, referring to it as Erânshahr or Iranshahr, , "Dominion of the Iranians", (i.e. of Iranians), with their capital at Ctesiphon.[64] Unlike the diadochic Seleucids and the succeeding Arsacids, who used a vassalary system, the Sassanids—like the Achaemenids—had a system of governors (MP: shahrab) personally appointed by the Emperor and directed by the central government.
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Old December 23rd, 2010, 10:56 PM   #134
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OT:

In case you didn't know, Western Christians were forbidden to charge interest long before the coming of Islam. Hence, they could not participate in traditional Finance for centuries. It was only AFTER the Middle ages when this rule started to break down as a means to control the financial power of the Jews in Europe. But before that, it was a mortal sin in Western Christianity to use money obtained through interest-driven instruments and money-lenders. Many kings and princes were excommunicated by the Popes by simply using money borrowed from the Jews.

And I guessed you missed my point. I said that modern-day Muslim Finance is NOT traditional Finance. Hence, there is indeed no link between banking in the Middle Ages and Muslim Finance today -- because Traditional Finance was NOT practiced by Christians AND Muslims in earlier centuries.

Is that clear enough?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anabase View Post
Sorry, but I am about to say no too. Where Christians could, doesn't mean Muslims could too, for the simple reasons that Islam prohibits the use of illicit money, whatever its source. And the simple treatment and the mixture of this money with interest-based-structures suffice to make it illicit for muslims, whether the guy who stirs the money is Buddhist/Jews/Raelian or not. So the Jews structure's solution can't make it for muslims.
Plus, I really don't see the link between the banking in the middle ages and the inexistence of an Islamic Finance now.

Last edited by tpe; December 23rd, 2010 at 11:04 PM.
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Old December 23rd, 2010, 11:35 PM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tpe View Post
OT:

In case you didn't know, Western Christians were forbidden to charge interest long before the coming of Islam. Hence, they could not participate in traditional Finance for centuries. It was only AFTER the Middle ages when this rule started to break down as a means to control the financial power of the Jews in Europe. But before that, it was a mortal sin in Western Christianity to use money obtained through interest-driven instruments and money-lenders. Many kings and princes were excommunicated by the Popes by simply using money borrowed from the Jews.
Of course I know and its precisely in the light of this point that I answered you, the History of Islamic Finance can't be assimilated to the Christian one who occured in the Renaissance, for the simple reason that the latter resulted from its contact with the Muslim Finance. In case you didn't know, the first forms of islamic finance products and tools like mufawada (partnership), mudaraba (limited partnership), cheques (who came from the persian word shakk), wakfs (trusts)...etc, appeared in the Islamic Golden ages (who correspond to the Middle ages in Europe) and was spread later in Europe from Andalusia. Experts gave the name of "Islamic capitalism" to the economic system in order this period, witch it can be assimilated to a form of proto-capitalism who was lately developed by Europeans. And I guess you didn't get my last point, if there is no link between Islamic banking in the Middle ages and the inexistence of Islamic Finance now, its because the last one does exist. In brief, the modern islamic Finance is a continuation and refinement of the traditional one.
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Old December 24th, 2010, 05:03 AM   #136
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This will be my last comment on the subject, as this is clearly OT.

You certainly have pride in Islamic achievments, and I respect that.

But please note what I said: that the underpinnings of Medieval Finance in Europe and the East Roman (Byzantine) Empire go back to Late Antiquity -- certainly BEFORE the advent of Islam.

Please refer to the sections on financial and administrative reforms in the Corpus Juris Civilis compiled in the reign of the Roman Emperor Justinian from the 6th century before you talk over your head and spout out such nonesense.

Any person who is literate in the history of banking and Finance knows this. It is not arcane knowledge, you know. And Finance and the history of Finance happen to be my area of professional expertise, so do not make a fool of yourself here.



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Of course I know and its precisely in the light of this point that I answered you, the History of Islamic Finance can't be assimilated to the Christian one who occured in the Renaissance, for the simple reason that the latter resulted from its contact with the Muslim Finance. In case you didn't know, the first forms of islamic finance products and tools like mufawada (partnership), mudaraba (limited partnership), cheques (who came from the persian word shakk), wakfs (trusts)...etc, appeared in the Islamic Golden ages (who correspond to the Middle ages in Europe) and was spread later in Europe from Andalusia. Experts gave the name of "Islamic capitalism" to the economic system in order this period, witch it can be assimilated to a form of proto-capitalism who was lately developed by Europeans. And I guess you didn't get my last point, if there is no link between Islamic banking in the Middle ages and the inexistence of Islamic Finance now, its because the last one does exist. In brief, the modern islamic Finance is a continuation and refinement of the traditional one.

Last edited by tpe; December 24th, 2010 at 05:09 AM.
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Old December 24th, 2010, 08:29 AM   #137
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in long time ago islam religion was spread around he world including persian,rome,nusantara,indian,spain..
in architecture term,its call Heat Pad infuence...its not steal or borrowed..and once again islamic achitecture is exist
Islam architecture is really amazing...
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Old December 24th, 2010, 09:00 AM   #138
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an example of islamic architecutre.. umm al qura mosque in Baghdad







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Old December 24th, 2010, 09:38 AM   #139
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well well well,

78% so far say - "YES There is Islamic Architecture".

I have to say i'm not [email protected] surprised.

By far one of the most unnecessary threads if there ever has been one.

What's next? "Is there Islam" thread?
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Old December 24th, 2010, 09:53 AM   #140
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You totally ignore the alteration of these styles. Second, this response backs up my earlier remark about anti-Islamic sentiments. Thanks for proving my point.

Third Islamic architecture is an umbrella, it features styles from different Islamic civilizations. Thats why its called Islamic architecture. Its also called "Islamic architecture" because it often contains some distinct features, like caligraphy and returning patterns.
It just your ignorance of ancient Persian art and architecture, this is a Persian Inscription in Pahlavi script hundreds years before Islam:

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