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Old March 8th, 2013, 03:07 PM   #241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cfredo View Post

Exactly!
It's also interesting how reports about the ultimate Chinese "ghost town" Ordos are becoming very rare. What's the reason? Well, it isn't a ghost town anymore...sometimes it just needs some time to fill a new district.
Now everybody uses Ordos as the example since it's the last good example. Before they had more alternatives to choose from.
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Old March 8th, 2013, 03:15 PM   #242
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Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
When you're building several million sq m of residential and commercial space in one go it will stay empty for a while because it is physically impossible to fill it in an instant. Those who criticize China's 'ghost towns' simply do not understand what urban development system China is undertaking and how it works.
They want China do it how it's done in the west. Build it block by block when demand exceeds supply. That's the law of economics. It's not economical motivated to build something that will lose money the first 2-3 years.
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Old March 8th, 2013, 03:57 PM   #243
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Originally Posted by BarbaricManchurian View Post
Yes, Tianjin has very serious plans to expand to 25 million people. Already has expanded from about 10 to 15 million.
Right now Tianjin's population is about 7-8 million and about 9 with Binhai included so it will take a while until Tainjin becomes a true megacity.
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Old March 8th, 2013, 04:34 PM   #244
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Tianjin's official population is 13,545,800 and is probably higher due to migrant workers.

Last edited by BarbaricManchurian; October 7th, 2013 at 06:52 PM.
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Old March 8th, 2013, 06:30 PM   #245
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I am not trying to be a troll or lie. This is what I have read and analysed by looking at maps and streetviews.
I am not counting the rural areas. Only the urban core and suburb districts. Fornce people living in Ji or Baodi county may rarely go into the Tianjin so they don't contribute any population increase anything to the proper city like suburb dwellers do. For instance Beijing's total pop. is 20 million but the itself including the metropolitan area is about 18-19 million. So Tianjin still isn't a megacity yet. For Shanghai it's 20-21 while the municipality have 23.

Check here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ons_of_Tianjin

Where did you get the 13.5 million figure? In 2010 the pop was 12 938 224.
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Old March 9th, 2013, 06:26 PM   #246
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One can find multiple answers to population figures on the net. It isn't necessary to call someone a "liar". Post a source for your figures. The true figure is probably close to what's posted below. Urban population numbers flucuate all the time. That's true all over the world.

"At present, Tianjin has a population of 10.43 million permanent residents"
source http://www.tj.gov.cn/english/About_t...Nationalities/

Population (2010 census)
• Municipality 12,938,224
• Urban 4,342,770
• Metro 10,290,987
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tianjin

Tianjin 11,090,314 Municipality (National central city)
http://worldpopulationreview.com/pop...of-china-2012/

And there are a dozen more figures available online as well. Which one is correct? Who knows.
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Last edited by spectre000; March 9th, 2013 at 08:24 PM. Reason: grammar
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Old March 10th, 2013, 05:42 PM   #247
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China isn't that exceptional, though the scale is larger. There have been massive building booms in Europe and America as well, where whole neighbourhoods, whole cities, were built from scratch in a decade or so. The houses all got filled, eventually, but they all had massive property crashes in the meantime. These booms and crashes were predominantly privately financed.

Will these Binhai projects complete without a massive crash in the middle? I couldn't say. I am sure these buildings will fill eventually, but this is not only the biggest, but also the riskiest construction project in China today.

However it turns out, Binhai will likely be the biggest city development in Chinese history. There won't be a bigger one. If there were it would most likely be in India, Indonesia or somewhere in Africa.
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Old March 10th, 2013, 06:12 PM   #248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by :jax: View Post
China isn't that exceptional, though the scale is larger. There have been massive building booms in Europe and America as well, where whole neighbourhoods, whole cities, were built from scratch in a decade or so. The houses all got filled, eventually, but they all had massive property crashes in the meantime. These booms and crashes were predominantly privately financed.

Will these Binhai projects complete without a massive crash in the middle? I couldn't say. I am sure these buildings will fill eventually, but this is not only the biggest, but also the riskiest construction project in China today.

However it turns out, Binhai will likely be the biggest city development in Chinese history. There won't be a bigger one. If there were it would most likely be in India, Indonesia or somewhere in Africa.
I'd like to see the figures of urban/rural population in Western Europe back in the days (1950-1960/70's I suppose?) and compare it to nowadays China.

China still has half a billion or so people who eventually will be moving to cities. Hence the need for residential housing. Something that never happened on such a scale and speed in Europe.

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However it turns out, Binhai will likely be the biggest city development in Chinese history. There won't be a bigger one.
What about Qianhai in Shenzhen? Isn't it of comparable scale?
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Old March 11th, 2013, 09:05 AM   #249
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VECTROTALENZIS View Post
They want China do it how it's done in the west. Build it block by block when demand exceeds supply. That's the law of economics. It's not economical motivated to build something that will lose money the first 2-3 years.
It would make economic sense if the land and construction cost is significantly cheaper now compare to three years down the road, and the saving will outnumber the initial loss due to higher vacancy rate. They are doing it with a long term plan, just like Airbus still hasn't break even making the A380 six years after delivering the first aircraft, but that doesn't mean it's a poor business decision not motivated by basic economics, it's common for long term investments.
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Old March 11th, 2013, 12:25 PM   #250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
I'd like to see the figures of urban/rural population in Western Europe back in the days (1950-1960/70's I suppose?) and compare it to nowadays China.

China still has half a billion or so people who eventually will be moving to cities. Hence the need for residential housing. Something that never happened on such a scale and speed in Europe.



What about Qianhai in Shenzhen? Isn't it of comparable scale?
The comparable time in Europe would be around 1880-1900 for most countries, a little later for the US. This is before EU and Eurostat, so while there probably are web sites with aggregate information I don't have it. This was the age of science, technology, and rapid social change, industrialisation and urbanisation. The population explosion leading up to this, and the lessened need for rural workers, led to a huge influx of poor migrant workers to the cities, and a growing emigration to America. This was also the age of colonisation.

We have been here before, but those who could have remembered are dead. There is a memory in architecture. When you go to European cities today there is a good fair the house you are looking at is from that period. (Most buildings are made in the 20th century, but that is a longer time period, there are also around 2000 years of building history leading up to the late 1800s, but in building mass this is tiny.) The science taught in school is largely from that period, as is much literature, theatre and culture. This was a time of misery and optimism, rational and irrational exuberance followed by a number of crashes and long depressions.

Of course the population in Europe more than a century ago was much smaller than the population of China today, and they were much poorer than today's Chinese. The scale was smaller, but the phenomena the same. Like with Europe, whatever part of the building mass which isn't shoddy, in the way for future projects, or poorly located or planned, will remain for a century or more. This includes Yujiapu/Xiangluowan. That doesn't mean that the investors will get their money back, or that there couldn't be a depressed decade or two with low-paying tenants and high vacancy, or that this won't be a drag of the Tianjin economy or the economy as a whole.

I don't know the Qianhai project that well, but my impression is that it is significantly smaller in scale both in absolute terms and relative to the economy (Hong Kong/Shenzhen vs Tianjin).
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Old March 11th, 2013, 05:49 PM   #251
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What are the figures of Binhai development? Such as anticipated population, building area and land area?
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Old March 16th, 2013, 03:06 PM   #252
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How many people will work in every day Xiangluowan Yujiapu Business District and Business District? What is the expected date of completion of all the stages?
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Old April 26th, 2013, 05:48 AM   #253
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Old May 26th, 2013, 05:10 AM   #254
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Old May 26th, 2013, 05:51 AM   #255
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ok, now that is impressive.
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Old May 26th, 2013, 06:22 AM   #256
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Looks like the media reports were right. Either some projects are on hold or they are moving extremely slow.
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Old May 26th, 2013, 06:29 AM   #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guldkanalen View Post
ok, now that is impressive.
Those buildings are on the Xiangluowan side. The really impressive ones are behind the camera !

Typical of new CBDs in China. It's the bigger/taller towers of Yujiapu (background) that will be really impressive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by idoke View Post
Looks like the media reports were right. Either some projects are on hold or they are moving extremely slow.
They are building CBDs - not one, two or a few towers.

Last edited by skyridgeline; May 26th, 2013 at 09:59 AM. Reason: Yujiapu/Xiangluowan site image correction
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Old May 26th, 2013, 06:51 AM   #258
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Originally Posted by skyridgeline View Post
Those buildings are on the Xiangluowan side. The really impressive ones are behind the camera !
Foreground is Xiangluowan (great progress on the park!), the background is Yujiapu.
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Old May 26th, 2013, 06:52 AM   #259
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Looks like the media reports were right. Either some projects are on hold or they are moving extremely slow.
Mid-2014 opening to coincide with the opening of the high speed rail station. It's been this plan all along.
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Old May 26th, 2013, 08:34 AM   #260
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Originally Posted by BarbaricManchurian View Post
Mid-2014 opening to coincide with the opening of the high speed rail station. It's been this plan all along.
i.c.
so until then, no building will be opened?

Many buildings were t/o long ago, but didn't start cladding.
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