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Supertalls Discussions of projects under construction between 300-599m/1,000-1,999ft tall.
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Old November 5th, 2015, 03:27 PM   #501
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The Inner Mongolian pipe-dreaming governors sit on more coal than they can ever eat. Likewise Beijing and the Bohai Sea are two power regions Binhai straddles. I too expect it will fill up eventually, no matter what happens. Worst case it is not that far off Tianjin city. It's a bit comparable to Shanghai Hongqiao in that regard. Cheap office space with excellent connections to the port and the city will find a use.

Filling up like that would still constitute failure, as it would be a near-total writedown on investment. The goal isn't cheap rent office space, but extremely expensive rent office space encircled with an outer core and suburbs. I think the goal is reachable, but it will not be automatic or guaranteed.

Jing-Jin-Ji has no shortage of office space. Any city has it and some, like Tianjin, has several. Prime office space is in shortage (and extremely expensive), but prime office space in this region of China means Guomao, the Beijing CBD. The couple dozen others are, to make a weak pun, sub-prime. Tianjin is a lesser city, which has built forests of office buildings that it has trouble renting out, and this is not even the city of Tianjin, but a distant suburb.

The government will use a combination of carrot and stick to persuade state-owned enterprises and private companies to move there. This will likely cannibalise other CBDs, including Tianjin's own CBD. SOEs have also been extolled to actually focus on making profit, not to participate in vanity projects, also by the government. It's not going to be easy, but it should work out, if not without cost. Not only to the developers and the backers, but also to SOE setting up offices here when they should rather be elsewhere making money.

There is an upside too. Many established cities in the developed world wait too long and develop in too small scale, to a great cost of business not done. When they finally build it is because they have to, and by then the market is so heated that construction costs are at their maximum. Then, if they are especially lucky, the market crashes and the investment is only worth fractions of what it would have been if they had started years earlier. Greenfield developments also should mean that construction, especially of infrastructure, should be cheaper. Digging ditches in an empty field is a lot cheaper than in a living, working city.
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Old November 5th, 2015, 04:01 PM   #502
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If "never" means "not lately" this is true, otherwise not. China is not the first country to do large-scale urbanisation, neither will it be the last. The scale is different and unprecedented, just like it was with the US, Britain and other precedents.
Which other countries besides China, USSR (and other former Communist countries) and Singapore have undergone mass planned urbanization more or less in line with Le Corbusian planning ideology?
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Old November 5th, 2015, 04:03 PM   #503
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If "never" means "not lately" this is true, otherwise not. China is not the first country to do large-scale urbanisation, neither will it be the last. The scale is different and unprecedented, just like it was with the US, Britain and other precedents.
Which other countries besides China, USSR (and other former Communist countries) and Singapore have undergone mass planned urbanization?
I'm not aware of any. Perhaps Sweden to some extent? A few separate examples in UK (Milton Keynes)?
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Old November 5th, 2015, 05:38 PM   #504
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Most of this discussion, and my comments, has been on the risks, potential and viability of this project, an independent issue from how it is designed. Are we talking the next financial capital of East Asia, or is it just another castle in the swamp? (Or, which is by far most likely, something in between.)

I am not sure of the Corbusian connection, but planned greenfield cities are about as old as cities themselves. My avatar picture is from Prague, where I've lived some years, not far from the New Town. Today a city district, but when planned and constructed 650 years ago it was outside the existing city/cities, in fact many times larger than them.

People might say that Charles who planned the city was crazy to build such a huge city in the middle of a field, but he also happened to be the Holy Roman Emperor, and that helped a lot.

Planned cities inspired by Corbusier include Brasília, Brazil and Chandigarh, India. The former is a typical motivation, "we need a new capital, the old one is full of people". European countries have tended to keep their capital, and only build new districts when the urge takes them, or tear down the old ones when they get bored by them.
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Old November 5th, 2015, 05:50 PM   #505
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Most of this discussion, and my comments, has been on the risks, potential and viability of this project, an independent issue from how it is designed. Are we talking the next financial capital of East Asia, or is it just another castle in the swamp? (Or, which is by far most likely, something in between.)

I am not sure of the Corbusian connection, but planned greenfield cities are about as old as cities themselves. My avatar picture is from Prague, where I've lived some years, not far from the New Town. Today a city district, but when planned and constructed 650 years ago it was outside the existing city/cities, in fact many times larger than them.

People might say that Charles who planned the city was crazy to build such a huge city in the middle of a field, but he also happened to be the Holy Roman Emperor, and that helped a lot.

Planned cities inspired by Corbusier include Brasília, Brazil and Chandigarh, India. The former is a typical motivation, "we need a new capital, the old one is full of people". European countries have tended to keep their capital, and only build new districts when the urge takes them, or tear down the old ones when they get bored by them.
Sure but none of that was even remotely comparable in terms of scale bar the Communist era mass urbanization in Europe's Warsaw Pact/USSR and elsewhere which incidentally echoes that of China today (just the latter being much more in line with contemporary standards and common sense of course).
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Old November 5th, 2015, 06:12 PM   #506
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Which other countries besides China, USSR (and other former Communist countries) and Singapore have undergone mass planned urbanization more or less in line with Le Corbusian planning ideology?
the us played around with it in the 50s and 60s.
towers in a park.
failed pretty hard.
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Old November 5th, 2015, 06:24 PM   #507
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the us played around with it in the 50s and 60s.
towers in a park.
failed pretty hard.
That's what I mean. There were isolated attempts here and there. But it never became a mass mainstream phenomenon as it is in China, Singapore or Hong Kong. It is essentially an alien ideology in the West.
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Old November 5th, 2015, 09:25 PM   #508
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no there were some pretty sizable attempts. most of them have been demolished and redeveloped.
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Old November 5th, 2015, 09:35 PM   #509
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no there were some pretty sizable attempts. most of them have been demolished and redeveloped.
So it hasn't become a mainstream urban development strategy despite the 'sizeable attempts', right?
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Old November 5th, 2015, 10:00 PM   #510
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So it hasn't become a mainstream urban development strategy despite the 'sizeable attempts', right?
it was.
it failed.
it was not continued.
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Old November 5th, 2015, 10:08 PM   #511
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it was.
it failed.
it was not continued.
So which countries have conducted such planning as their mainstream planning ideology (not just 'attempted') and which major cities were built by using it?
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Old November 6th, 2015, 11:07 AM   #512
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The scale is absolutely special, I think it is a privilege to watch it live. The economic, social, and technological change in the late 19th century Europe, particularly Britain, was unprecedented as well. Never before or after has science and technology advanced faster, including today. Much of what today is quaint, traditional and cozy in today's Britain (and Hong Kong) was high tech and modern 100-150 years ago. This was the age that invented modern, that invented invention.

The US came later, in the early 20th century, but when they did, they came grander. Theirs were the age of skyscrapers, functionally divided city plans (the Corbusier reference?), and the automobile.

China is the US of the 21st century, on a much greater scale. Not just more people, faster urbanisation, but higher technology.
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Old November 6th, 2015, 12:29 PM   #513
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Beautiful Collection of the images.
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Old December 18th, 2015, 11:13 AM   #514
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by Hi industry



















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Old December 18th, 2015, 06:23 PM   #515
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As someone who lives about 5 minutes away from there by car (I live opposite TEDA's developing MSD CBD complex I can confirm that things are moving along here. Some projects such as the twin towers haven't shown any sign of progress since I arrived, but there's clear progress throughout the Yujiapu district and a lot of builders getting on with things across several different construction sites.

And yeah I'd say it's short sighted to consider these projects a failure if they're not full on day 1. Skyscrapers are incredibly expensive investments with planned returns for decades and decades. Whether or not they are turning a profit immediately needn't determine how successful they are as a project because it's not really a requirement for them to ultimately become good investments and successes - that's clearly a mid and long term issue.

It's much the same with the MSD complex where more and more offices are being built and stand empty, but one by one they are filling up and then the next building opens its doors. It's frustrating as a westerner to see shiny new buildings sitting unused but as long as they don't stay that way for another 5 years (which seems very unlikely) then they will be be successful in the end

On a side note the CTF is flying up and I'm privileged that I can see it from my front door!
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Old December 18th, 2015, 08:09 PM   #516
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Great to have someone from Binhai here in the forum, please help us updating these projects Best wishes from Germany
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Old December 18th, 2015, 11:54 PM   #517
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Just wanna ask the people who know more than me about this district, are these buildings completed:

- Yujiapu Business District 1-10
- Yujiapu Bohai Bank Tower

and I'm not sure if this building is part of the district..

- Tianjin Rural Commercial Building

Please it would be good to get a response images are a bonus !
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Old December 22nd, 2015, 06:13 PM   #518
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Thanks my German friend!

Unfortunately I'm not good with names so I am not sure which building is which (besides the supertalls in Tianjin).

The CTF down the road (across the road from my place!!!) is growing really fast. It was barely breaking ground level this time last year and is now the tallest building in the MSD complex... It's shaping up really nicely but I guess that's not for this thread

The yujiapu high speed train station is nice though. Used it the other day
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Old December 22nd, 2015, 07:39 PM   #519
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People are everywhere!!!
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Old December 24th, 2015, 08:16 AM   #520
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The building in the second last photo is unreal

Is it an office building ?
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