Victoria Tunnel, Quayside Railway Tunnel – and all other SUBTERRANEAN NEWCASTLE

[forsakenarchitecture]

Originally Posted by Steve Ellwood

Had a tour around Lower Steenberg Yard back in April 2010 to see if we could find anything that indicates the route of the Victoria Tunnel - nothing found but still an ideal opportunity to haver a good nose about!

I see you're attempting to locate Victoria Tunnel, have you had much success?

.

[Steve Ellwood]

Originally Posted by forsakenarchitecture

I'm looking forward to seeing this development complete as the renderings look promising. It's good to see an old building being restored instead of demolished for a change.

I see you're attempting to locate Victoria Tunnel, have you had much success?

Well to be more succinct, it was the course of the Victoria Tunnel after it is cut off by Glasshouse Bridge (South end of the Tunnel). Appears to be some disagreement as to where it goes (directionally) at that end of the Tunnel. Apart from that the route is 100% known as it still exists

[GBDT]

Originally Posted by Steve Ellwood

Well to be more succinct, it was the course of the Victoria Tunnel after it is cut off by Glasshouse Bridge (South end of the Tunnel). Appears to be some disagreement as to where it goes (directionally) at that end of the Tunnel. Apart from that the route is 100% known as it still exists

An excert from 1st Edition OS map shows the entrance by Quayside. Must be a curve up to the known entrance on Ouse Street.

image hosted on flickr


GBDT

[GBDT]

Originally Posted by Steve Ellwood

Well to be more succinct, it was the course of the Victoria Tunnel after it is cut off by Glasshouse Bridge (South end of the Tunnel). Appears to be some disagreement as to where it goes (directionally) at that end of the Tunnel. Apart from that the route is 100% known as it still exists

For those that do not know, the known or approximate line of the Victoria Tunnel is shown in red below. Due to motorway construction and sewerage works not all of it exists.

image hosted on flickr


GBDT

[Steve Ellwood]

Originally Posted by GBDT

For those that do not know, the known or approximate line of the Victoria Tunnel is shown in red below. Due to motorway construction and sewerage works not all of it exists.

GBDT

Sorry, got to totally disagree with your comment that the VICTORIA TUNNEL does not exist in the area of the Central Motorway. The WHOLE of the VT is in situ between Ouse Street (Ouseburn) and the intersection of Claremont Road and Hunters Road (Spital Tongues).

The Central Motorway did NOT cut the VT and the 'sewerage works' simply made use of the existing tunnel by the insertion of pre formed concrete rings to form an overflow sewer as part of the Pandon Sewer System.

So rest assured the VT is still there beneath our feet, apart from small sections at either end which are lost forever.

Just a reminder that the Ouse Street stretch of the VT up to Crawhall Road is open to the Public for Tours - just book online @ http://ouseburntrust.org.uk/index.php?page=booking-form

[GBDT]

Originally Posted by Steve Ellwood

Sorry, got to totally disagree with your comment that the VICTORIA TUNNEL does not exist in the area of the Central Motorway.

My comments come from talking to City Engineers over the years. It may be that new research has changed this view. I bow to your specialist knowledge - saw your name on the Ouseburn website!

cheers

GBDT

[Steve Ellwood]

[QUOTE=GBDT;71233953]

Originally Posted by Steve Ellwood

Sorry, got to totally disagree with your comment that the VICTORIA TUNNEL does not exist in the area of the Central Motorway.
QUOTE]

My comments come from talking to City Engineers over the years. It may be that new research has changed this view. I bow to your specialist knowledge - saw your name on the Ouseburn website!

cheers

GBDT

No its an easy thought, even had it myself when I saw how deep the Central Motorway had been cut, but no, it survives and also survived the Metro Tunnel coming within feet of it when it was being built. Only construction that 'damaged' the VICTORIA TUNNEL being the Quayside Branch Line and the Lime Square Development, both of which were repaired.

[DXNewcastle]

Just to add to the Victoria Tunnel posts:

The 1st Ed OS map posted by GBDT shows the south eastern end of the tunnel being not far from 'Spital Tongue Staithes'. That name is probably another useful confirmation of the tunnel's purpose and source.

In the mid 70's I lived in Spital Tongues. The tunnel ran under the garden and had an entrance in my neighbour's garden through a shaft. It was probs at least 200 mtrs south of the position shown on the contemporaneous NCC map in GBDTs later post. (unless it was another tunnel!!). My neighbour was very well informed about it and, working for the University's facilities at the time, assured me that its passage eastwards passed under University land where there were one or more entrance(s) under University property. If that was correct (and I don't doubt it) then the tunnel must be located a little further south than indicated.

(Its shameful that, as a long-standing Ouseburn stakeholder, I still haven't been all the way through the tunnel back to my old home!)

[GBDT]

Originally Posted by DXNewcastle

Just to add to the Victoria Tunnel posts:

In the mid 70's I lived in Spital Tongues. The tunnel ran under the garden and had an entrance in my neighbour's garden through a shaft. It was probs at least 200 mtrs south of the position shown on the contemporaneous NCC map in GBDTs later post. (unless it was another tunnel!!).

The map at this scale is very approximate. The line was plotted at a more accurate scale according to the County Archaeologist research. There is a +/- getout as well

GBDT

[Steve Ellwood]

Originally Posted by DXNewcastle

Just to add to the Victoria Tunnel posts:

The 1st Ed OS map posted by GBDT shows the south eastern end of the tunnel being not far from 'Spital Tongue Staithes'. That name is probably another useful confirmation of the tunnel's purpose and source.

In the mid 70's I lived in Spital Tongues. The tunnel ran under the garden and had an entrance in my neighbour's garden through a shaft. It was probs at least 200 mtrs south of the position shown on the contemporaneous NCC map in GBDTs later post. (unless it was another tunnel!!). My neighbour was very well informed about it and, working for the University's facilities at the time, assured me that its passage eastwards passed under University land where there were one or more entrance(s) under University property. If that was correct (and I don't doubt it) then the tunnel must be located a little further south than indicated.

(Its shameful that, as a long-standing Ouseburn stakeholder, I still haven't been all the way through the tunnel back to my old home!)

Well what can I say - The course of the VICTORIA TUNNEL is so easy to document (albeit not the South End - see earlier post) becuase it still exists and is accessible for its entire length.

Not wishing to poo pah the information provided by your neighbour but the ONLY entrances in the VT are those that were at both ends when it was operational as a Coal Waggonway and the 7 which were opened up as entrances to the VT during the World War 2 period when it was used as an air raid shelter. If you want to, send me a PM with your neighbours address and I'll check to see if it could actually be above the VT but I cannot see why there would be an entrance?

Geographically to Newcastle University (assuming Newcastle and not Northumbria) the VT takes a route straight down Claremont Road to the Hancock Museum so it goes past but not through the Universities grounds. If you are ever at the Hancock (oops - Great North Museum) take a look at the blue/green metal doors that stand on Claremont Road becuase they are the doors to the air raid shelter entrance. Here is a snap of what they look like from the inside :



Yes you should get yourself down to the VT, especially if you are a member of the Ouseburn Trust, as I'm sure they still have a policy of one free visit but you would have to check that out - ONLY the Ouse Street section is open to the Public so you wouldn't be able to walk from one end to the other, although physically it is, albeit for a brick wall sealing the VT at Newbridge Street.

If anyone is interested in seeing photographs of the VT, aim your browser at this link - click on the sub albums when you get there.

http://www.fototime.com/inv/BB5AE56D2503D8C

[The Tynesiders]

Originally Posted by Steve Ellwood

Well to be more succinct, it was the course of the Victoria Tunnel after it is cut off by Glasshouse Bridge (South end of the Tunnel). Appears to be some disagreement as to where it goes (directionally) at that end of the Tunnel. Apart from that the route is 100% known as it still exists

I thought it was the chimney next to the Glasshouse Bridge that cut through it at the end? Sure I can remember reading that somewhere.

[Steve Ellwood]

This was the map that we were investigating during our April 2010 visit to Lower Steenberg Yard to establish if there was anything to confirm the Southern exit of the Victoria Tunnel.

[Steve Ellwood]

Originally Posted by The Tynesiders

I thought it was the chimney next to the Glasshouse Bridge that cut through it at the end? Sure I can remember reading that somewhere.

Given the map that I've just posted I've raised a question amongst my colleagues to clarify the point, i.e. is the wall behind the present art installation (Rainbow Codes) Maynards or Glasshouse Bridge. Certainly looks to be Maynards.

However the map does emphasise how the building of Glasshouse Bridge cut the VT and as a consequence everything that was the VT South of Glasshouse Bridge was destroyed, this included the Staithes.

[Ponteland Historian]

[QUOTE=Steve Ellwood;71234371]

Originally Posted by GBDT

No its an easy thought, even had it myself when I saw how deep the Central Motorway had been cut, but no, it survives and also survived the Metro Tunnel coming within feet of it when it was being built. Only construction that 'damaged' the VICTORIA TUNNEL being the Quayside Branch Line and the Lime Square Development, both of which were repaired.

I was working at Newcastle City Engineers department in the Main Drainage section at the time of the construction of the Central Motorway East (CME).

The works included an 'Advanced trainage contract' which intercepted all the sewers crossing the line of the motorway. The tunnels were very deep and in itself major works - if i'm right in excess of £500,000 at 1967 prices. There were at that time plans to use the Victoria Tunnel as a sewer houseing foul water and surface water pipes. So the CME project involved sinking an 18 foot dia manhole shaft down to tunnel to enable the intecepted sewers to be diverted some time in future. The Victoria Tunnel/CME manhole exists but the sewers never diverted into Victoria Tunnel - so where is the Manhole? - its in Northumbria University land just off Ellison Place at the point where Ellison Place meets the embankment of the CME.

[ferret88]

[QUOTE=Ponteland Historian;71293877]

Originally Posted by Steve Ellwood

I was working at Newcastle City Engineers department in the Main Drainage section at the time of the construction of the Central Motorway East (CME).

The works included an 'Advanced trainage contract' which intercepted all the sewers crossing the line of the motorway. The tunnels were very deep and in itself major works - if i'm right in excess of £500,000 at 1967 prices. There were at that time plans to use the Victoria Tunnel as a sewer houseing foul water and surface water pipes. So the CME project involved sinking an 18 foot dia manhole shaft down to tunnel to enable the intecepted sewers to be diverted some time in future. The Victoria Tunnel/CME manhole exists but the sewers never diverted into Victoria Tunnel - so where is the Manhole? - its in Northumbria University land just off Ellison Place at the point where Ellison Place meets the embankment of the CME.

Interesting, I'm sure one of those ferrety types from 28 Days Later would be interested in having a look down there. Does the shaft actually reach the tunnel?

F

[Ponteland Historian]

[QUOTE=ferret88;71295353]

Originally Posted by Ponteland Historian

Interesting, I'm sure one of those ferrety types from 28 Days Later would be interested in having a look down there. Does the shaft actually reach the tunnel?

F

Yes the working shaft manhole does exist - from recollection its about 80 feet deep with lots of sewers coming into it and collected togethe and diverted away. There are major 'landings' at about 20ft, 40ft and 60 ft down.I'm sure it did go down to Victoria Tunnel- infact I think below Victoria Tunnel which will therefore pass through the Manhole.

[ferret88]

[QUOTE=Ponteland Historian;71297031]

Originally Posted by ferret88

Yes the working shaft manhole does exist - from recollection its about 80 feet deep with lots of sewers coming into it and collected togethe and diverted away. There are major 'landings' at about 20ft, 40ft and 60 ft down.I'm sure it did go down to Victoria Tunnel- infact I think below Victoria Tunnel which will therefore pass through the Manhole.

Sounds good, shame I'm not adventurous enough to go have a look!

F

[Steve Ellwood]

[QUOTE=ferret88;71295353]

Originally Posted by Ponteland Historian

Interesting, I'm sure one of those ferrety types from 28 Days Later would be interested in having a look down there. Does the shaft actually reach the tunnel?

F

Never mind that bunch - I would like to take a look!

[Steve Ellwood]

[QUOTE=Ponteland Historian;71297031]

Originally Posted by ferret88

Yes the working shaft manhole does exist - from recollection its about 80 feet deep with lots of sewers coming into it and collected togethe and diverted away. There are major 'landings' at about 20ft, 40ft and 60 ft down.I'm sure it did go down to Victoria Tunnel- infact I think below Victoria Tunnel which will therefore pass through the Manhole.

The VICTORIA TUNNEL at its deepest is 85 feet beneath the surface and that's at CRAWHALL ROAD - don't suppose you have any photographs or drawings of this shaft?

[Ponteland Historian]

[QUOTE=Steve Ellwood;71304385]

Originally Posted by Ponteland Historian

The VICTORIA TUNNEL at its deepest is 85 feet beneath the surface and that's at CRAWHALL ROAD - don't suppose you have any photographs or drawings of this shaft?

The City Engineers should have a copy of drawings and certainly photos - my memorary is not as good as it used to be. The shaft could have been 100 foot deep and 24 foot diameter - each manhole was a major civil engineering project in itself and I worked on the design of this one. Each has a 'bucket shaft' - that is a hole in each intermeadiate landing to enable material to be lowered/lift to/from invert. If I'm correct that the shaft goes deeper than Victoria Tunnel then there will certainly be a landing to allow access. But 1967 is a long time ago!