PARIS - Arena 92 (32,000)

[Axelferis]

like a swedish arena design (i mean hockey arenas) quite good

[Benn]

That horseshoe layout sure makes it look like concerts are gonna be a big part of it, also looks like a substantially lower cost design the the early conceptuals (funny what happens when a real budget gets involved). Could have really wonderful light filtering in through those scoops wrapping around the concourses.

[parcdesprinces]

Originally Posted by Benn

also looks like a substantially lower cost design the early conceptuals (funny what happens when a real budget gets involved)

Actually it's the other way round, the first announced cost was around €200-220M and now it's about €320M.


PS: You're right about the U-shape (concerts etc), but it's also due to the office spaces included in the stadium and located in the north end.

[Axelferis]

Originally Posted by parcdesprinces

Actually it's the other way round, the first announced cost was around €200-220M and now it's about €320M.

i think the reason of skyrocketing cost is due to the location where the price is very high!

If you make the same stadium elsewhere in france! you got it for 180 million euros for sure!

[IronMan89]

are you sure Axel? Because as you know Bordeaux wants a multifonctional stadium WITHOUT retractable roof, without luxury but with 8 to 10,000 more seats.... So if you're right they can do it for 180M€. It appears that they've got a budget of 160M€ and it's not enough to match their demand, so you're maybe a little bit wrong unfortunately

[Darloeye]

The first design was great. but the last with that big white ugly wall just looks wrong. the seats under that big wall look like their sitting inside of a rock

[parcdesprinces]

Originally Posted by Axelferis

i think the reason of skyrocketing cost is due to the location where the price is very high!

If you make the same stadium elsewhere in france! you got it for 180 million euros for sure!

The prices are not high at all in this district of Nanterre, it's not La Défense or Neuilly you know... (and nothing comparable with the new stade Jean Bouin built in the very posh 16e Arr. of Paris, for example) !

Anyway, the Racing-Métro didn't pay the site (and won't pay it) !
As a matter of fact, the site was owned by the municipality of Puteaux who sold it to the EPASEDA (Public establishment of development of La Défense Seine Arche)... And the EPADESA will "let" it to the promoter (Racing-Métro 92/Racing Arena) during 99 years:

Patrick Jarry complète : Puteaux a vendu le terrain à l'PADESA. Le terrain ne sera pas vendu au Racing Arena. Le promoteur va signer un « bail à construire » et au terme du bail (durée probable : 99 ans) l'équipement reviendra à la Ville de Nanterre.

debatpublic.fr


Actually, the main reasons of the high cost of this stadium are the office & and commercial/entertainment spaces (40,000m2) inside the stadium and the quality of the cladding/materials + various other technical things. (for example, Portzamparc said today that the system he designed for the retractable roof is pretty expensive)




Oh, and BTW, you can't build a brand new 35K multi-purpose stadium with retractable roof in France for 180 million

[Benn]

Originally Posted by parcdesprinces

Actually it's the other way round, the first announced cost was around €200-220M and now it's about €320M.


PS: You're right about the U-shape (concerts etc), but it's also due to the office spaces included in the stadium and located in the north end.

You're not getting that 1st design done with those land values for under $300 million anywhere in the western world. They had pretty pictures put together for something ultimately beyond their means in order to get support for the project (and potentially explore possibilities). This something that happens with almost all big public projects (something that I have been involved with for a university project), I would guess that de Portzamparc's simpler, lower seating bowl is cheaper, and it doesn't look like it has the big glassy hotel in the "open" end.

I would also imagine another set of renders will come out at some point later this year and will be a little more finished out, de Portz's other projects have shown a lot of care and interest in materiality, so one will hope that continues here.

[Axelferis]

Originally Posted by parcdesprinces

Actually, the main reasons of the high cost of this stadium are the office & and commercial/entertainment spaces (40,000m2) inside the stadium and the quality of the cladding/materials + various other technical things.

What are the material for the cladding? i don't think it's expensive! wood and plastic are not the highest material prices

[parcdesprinces]

Originally Posted by Axelferis

What are the material for the cladding? i don't think it's expensive! wood and plastic are not the highest material prices

Wood and plastic is what they're going to use in Lille . For the Arena 92 you should read again what I already posted on this page: "a concrete shell with a soft beige color, which floats over a necklace of shiny and pearly scales, made of glass and metal, allowing the play of light both day and night." and like Benn said, Portzie generally chooses very carrefully the materials used for his projects.
And again don't forget all the office and commercial spaces (40,000 sqm) built inside the stadium (3 restaurants, many shops etc) that we won't find in the Lille's Arena, and they have a cost.

Anyway here is the French version of the article (read it Axel ):

« C’est le génie du lieu qui décide »

"De la douceur, de la grandeur, mais aussi des courbes" : c’est ainsi que Christian de Portzamparc a décrit son Arena92 lors de la conférence de presse du lundi 14 février. L’enjeu selon lui : "Servir l’ambition du programme tout en sortant des formes purement quadrangulaires imposées par le lieu. Très vite, c’est le génie du lieu qui décide… ".

Portzamparc a dessiné "une coque de béton d’une couleur gris beige douce, qui flotte sur un collier constitué d’écailles brillantes et nacrées, en verre et en métal, permettant des jeux de lumière de jour comme de nuit". "C’est le projet qui a répondu le mieux à nos attentes" précise Jacky Lorenzetti, promoteur de l’Arena92. "Un choix consensuel pour un projet qui respecte l’environnement et une architecture toute en douceur, parfaitement intégrée dans un environnement très spécifique".
Un projet qui s'accompagne également de fortes préoccupations sociales, puisqu'il prévoit un volume d'insertion correspondant à 100 000 heures de travail ; un chiffre "exceptionnel" selon le maire de Nanterre Patrick Jarry. Cet engagement du Racing Arena sera inscrit dans l'une des conventions en cours d'élaboration entre la ville de Nanterre et le promoteur.

Vue spectaculaire sur l’Arche depuis le restaurant gastronomique

Au rez-de-chaussée, côté parvis : des boutiques, le club-house du Racing Métro 92, une brasserie, mais aussi l’entrée principale de l’Arena qui permettra l’accès de 15 000 spectateurs.
Des entrées et sorties de stade sont également réparties tout autour de l’Arena.
Côté façade nord : 33 000 mètres carrés de bureaux séparés du stade par un grand puits de lumière qui permettra un éclairage naturel. Les entrées de bureaux sont situées côté RD914 et le restaurant interentreprises est installé au coin du parvis et de la rue des Longues Raies –ce qui entraînera des flux d’employés permettant ainsi de faire vivre le quartier au quotidien.
Enfin, le restaurant gastronomique en étage offrira une vue spectaculaire sur l’Arche de La Défense.

Le premier supporter à 4m50 de la ligne de touche

L’Arena en elle-même s’organise principalement sur 3 côtés : en configuration stade par exemple, la tribune nord n’accueille que quelques rangées de gradins. La proximité spectateurs-joueurs est très grande : 4m50 seulement séparent le premier rang de la ligne de touche. En configuration salle de spectacles, la scène occupe ce côté nord ; son emplacement est modulable selon la capacité d’accueil voulue.
Le coût global de ce projet se monte à 320 millions d'euros environ selon Jacky Lorenzetti, projet qui sera financé à hauteur d’un tiers par le "naming", un tiers par la location de bureaux, un tiers par les ventes de billets. Pour le "naming", des candidats se sont déjà fait connaître selon Jacky Lorenzetti, qui souhaite un engagement pour une durée de 15 ans.
A noter enfin que le projet de Christian de Portzamparc sera construit par la GTM, une filiale nanterrienne du groupe Vinci.

[parcdesprinces]

Originally Posted by Benn

You're not getting that 1st design done with those land values for under $300 million anywhere in the western world. They had pretty pictures put together for something ultimately beyond their means in order to get support for the project (and potentially explore possibilities). This something that happens with almost all big public projects (something that I have been involved with for a university project), I would guess that de Portzamparc's simpler, lower seating bowl is cheaper, and it doesn't look like it has the big glassy hotel in the "open" end.

The Club/promoter didn't buy the land but they will 'rent' it (almost for free) during 99 years to the new owner: the EPADESA (Public establishment of development of La Défense Seine Arche) who bought the land in order to support the project.

About the first design, it was just a vision, an illustration indeed, made by the Club in order to give a direction to the 27 firms involved in the international architecture competition. The €220 million cost announced was simply the preliminary budget of what the Club wanted to pay for its stadium. But apparently the final design is waaay off-budget (as usual) !

And what you call 'hotel" in the north end of the first illustrations, is actually the office building attached to the stadium and wanted by the club in order to fund a large part of the project. This office building is still there in the final design, but separated from the stadium by a wall and a large atrium behind this wall (as we can see on the plan: post #20).

[Axelferis]

this project is not comparable to lille which is bigger and more spectacular! I apreciate arean 92 no problem! we need in france several arenas projects like this

The offices are included in the project because (and you don't say it) the space around was not so large and they have to maximize this area and compacted it!

Offices and hotels are included in lille! but not in the stadium for a better panorama then from the bedroom you can see the stadium . Not the case of the offices in arena 92

[parcdesprinces]

No, the hotels and offices in Lille are not part of the project, are not included in the stadium funding, and won't take part of the stadium's profits... (big difference, eh !)

You know there are also "few" (very few ) office buildings and some hotels around the Arena 92... and even hotels and office buidlings towers from which you will have a spectacular vista above the stadium...

And another point which is very, very important about the Racing Arena is that it's 100% privately funded by the club (unlike any other stadium in France): 70% of the funding will come from the naming rights and from the office and commercial spaces built inside the stadium (thanks to its attractive location)

Anyway, I simply tried to explain you why the cost per seat of the Racing Arena is so high compared to other French stadiums... But if you prefer some kind of dick contest... then I give up !

[Axelferis]

no dick contest lille wins

Seriously i didn't know for naming rights?! How much do they expect to grab?

The idea of put in one site stadium and offices is very good and logical due to the location! La defense compete to be the best CBd in europe, then the exposition is perfect to have a sport & spectacles place

About lille , let me remind you that hotels and offices are part of the projetc since the beginning! It was a demand of LMCU in "le cahier des charges" ! They are part of the project and they'll be ready at the early debuts of this arena

[Minsk]

Beautiful!)

[IronMan89]

Here are new renders form the future Arena 92! As you can see the, hidden part of the stadium that we didn't see until now, is reserved to the Head Office of Racing Metro club.

Originally Posted by IronMan89

[parcdesprinces]

Thanks !

But what you call "the hidden part" (assuming you mean the north end) is not the headquarters of the RM92, but the 30,000m2 of office spaces that the Club will let in order to fund the stadium.

The Racing headquarters is located in Anthony (southern suburb of Paris), with the training facilities of the club, and I believe it will stay there.

[Axelferis]

the last pic show how awful is this stadium on certain plan

incredible bad imo!!

I prefer far the interior!! Look great, steep and high!

How many meters from the centre of pitch to the highest part of roof?

[parcdesprinces]

Actually I love its exterior design !! And especially with this asymmetric office part on the north side !

-----------------------

P.S. Here is another plan:

[IronMan89]

Originally Posted by Axelferis

the last pic show how awful is this stadium on certain plan

incredible bad imo!!

I prefer far the interior!! Look great, steep and high!

How many meters from the centre of pitch to the highest part of roof?

Between 40 ans 48 meters high