Get Ready! Rugby Union is going to war with AFL and Rugby League

[TOCC]

Well its almost official, Australia will be getting another Super 12/14 team and a extra 2 Tri Nations matches/year.

A little background:
SANZAR is basically the equivelant of the AFL or the NRL governing body. Its a combinations of the rugby directors from Australia, New Zealand and South Africa and they dictate what happens regarding the Super 12 competition and the tri-nations. They then take there proposal to News Corp and then News Corp decides how much money the should give them. Which is what is happening at the moment.

The Proposal:
Australia and South Africa will each gain a extra Super 12 team and the Tri Nations will be expanded to 9 games from the current 6 including a 3 match beldisloe cup comp inclusive.

Team Location(super 14):
Perth and Melbourne are currently the two most likable locations but Gosford and the Gold Coast also have a chance. This will be decided by December this year with a coach and CEO quickly following.

Players:
Considering theres only 3 super 12 teams in Aus at the moment a fourth team is a significant leap. Which also means its a significant leap in the number of professional rugby players. The gap of players is meant to be filled by Australian players currently on contracts over seas(which there are a lot) also by ex-rugby union players currently in the NRL and younger stars who cant get a foot hold in the current super 12 comp. Also currently the australian super 12 teams only have wallaby elegible in there side, there is now talk of opening up the teams to have a quota of over seas players in there sides to make up for the shortfall(most likely pacific islander players)

Time frame:
The team wont play there first competiton game until 2006 but the location will be decided by December this year, the Coach and CEO in the weeks following and then the rest of the year will be assembling a team, blueprint for the club, sponsorships and development squads.

Rugby Union vs Rugby league and AFL.
There will be a decent amount of competition between rugby league and rugby union in the next year or two, and also a increase in competition between rugby union and afl. Well the new rugby union team will most likely launch a poaching raid on the NRL ranks for starters. But also the Super 12 competition will be expanded by a month and also the Tri Nations will have another 3 games meaning two months more of Rugby in australia, pushing the Rugby Union season into September, meaning AFL and the NRL will be having there Finals while the Wallabies will be playing there Tri-Nations and Bledisloe Cup matches. Also theres a pretty good chance that where ever the team is based it will be competing with AFL team and possibly a NRL team.

[Adder-Laid]

League will lose fans in Melbourne to this, AFL will not suffer in either Perth or Melbourne, and you'll gain a few fans in Perth who will watch it as a 2nd sport, or never followed AFL to begin with because they're British...

guaranteed!

[jacobsian]

I have ceased supporting the West Adelaide football club, because some nerd on the internet posted an article about rugby union.

Woo.

I wouldnt get overly excited by RU having a team in Melbourne just look at the pathetic failure that the Storm RL team has been even with millions of dollars from News corp = Herald sun.

[Aussie Bhoy]

I think League is the superior game, and most of the people in the Rugby League\Union heartland (Qld\NSW) would agree.

Union has too many penalties and infringements. Watching goal kickers all day doesn't compare with length of the field tries.

I blame the British Rugby Union heirarchy who are too resistant to change, and frown upon the Super 12 attempts at minor rule changes to speed and improve the game.

[rondeez]

Originally Posted by Billy the Kid

I wouldnt get overly excited by RU having a team in Melbourne just look at the pathetic failure that the Storm RL team has been even with millions of dollars from News corp = Herald sun.

i agree.

i was in melbourne in july though and was SHOCKED to find a few melbourne storm supporters getting off the train at essendon! hahaha i thought that was classic... cause i didnt see any AFL supporters

[TOCC]

Originally Posted by yob

I have ceased supporting the West Adelaide football club, because some nerd on the internet posted an article about rugby union.

Woo.

some 'nerd', im just curious about what being a 'nerd' entails, if it means being someone who is reasonably smart and knows a decent amount about computers, then jee wizz i must definetly be a nerd.

And at what point did i say that people must cease supporting AFL or RL to support rugby union? The topic and title of this thread was actually inherited from a News Corp website, so next time i suggest you actually think a tad less narrow minded over the topic.

Anyway the Super 14 team will not be making any wagers to make itself the no.1 sport in Perth or Melbourne. Obviously AFL is much better established and has a culture which would take decades to beat. But in saying that, Rugby Union at its best is the no.3 sport in Brisbane and Sydney in terms of attendances. In terms of participation its it would be up there with rugby league but well behind soccer.

But when it comes down to it, why should a city be limited to only supporting one sport/season. Perth and Melbourne have both showed interest in wallaby test matches played in there cities and have show a suprisingly good level of support, both cities have there pro's and con's of why they should and shouldnt have the team and when it comes down to it in the end, it is about the money and the long term prosperity of rugby union in australia. Melbourne would have more corporate offices and sponsorship possibilities while perth has a larger already established supporter base.

ahh well either way both cities will get more games all up, which ever city gets a super 14 team will more then likely sacrafice the right to host a wallaby test for a few years where as the city who misses out will most likely have two tests/year anyway.

[sirbugalugs]

And about time Union left the security of its tradtional heartlands to forge new frontiers. For so long they have sit back and bragged about how big it could be. Playing the odd test match is no proof of long term success. I've always thought of RU as all cream and no cake. Whether it is Melbourne or Perth we will see what kind of support they really will get on a regular basis.

More sport is a good thing.

[ExSydney]

Melbourne's problem will be a suitable venue.
There is no way the AFL will do Rugby a favour with Telstra Dome.

More reason for Melbourne to develop a decent rectangular Stadium.

42,500 reasons Perth wants Super team
Four major contenders are already emerging in the race to be Australia's next Super rugby team, with Perth edging out Melbourne as the likely favourite for the 2006 prize.

The two state capitals are squaring off as the two most likely locations, while bids from the Central Coast and Gold Coast are likely to swiftly reinvent themselves after recently being spurned by the NRL.

Inquiries by interested parties to the ARU have met with firm confirmation that the bid is wide open. But after already researching the issue in 2000-01, leading candidates would surely have been identified by the union.

Hence the confidence with which a time-line has been constructed that will have a CEO and coach for the new entity appointed by January next year.

All that really remains is to weigh up the fine detail of each bid, and decide how much a final decision will rely on short-term or long-term goals, or on the purely financial gains stacked up against the greater good of the game.

Perth and Melbourne obviously offer a greater chance for rugby's expansion in a purely geographical sense.

Melbourne has previously argued a strong case for inclusion in the competition and will enter the contest confident of a solid hearing when judgement arrives.

The huge, sport-friendly population, a strong sporting infrastructure and a market that would allow long-term growth are all key factors the Victorian Rugby Union points to, and it is well aware of what detractors will say.

The Melbourne Storm rugby league team is not considered a resounding success, having failed to secure a convincing foothold in the home of AFL.

The VRU believes a rugby union team is a different prospect. "The crowds will support rugby union here because there's a longstanding heritage of rugby, clearly it's a different experiment," VRU boss Ron Steiner said. "The question is where do you want to be in five years time? That's what this decision has to be about."

West Australian Rugby CEO Rick Smith agrees that the long-term aim of the ARU should be the key focus. "We've got a very strong standard of rugby already, having won the Australian Rugby Shield once and been runner-up three times in the last four years," Smith said. "And we have a huge expat population of New Zealanders, South Africans and English."

The key point in that comment is the South African contingent in Perth. Reports in South African newspapers of the expansion have suggested only Perth as a likely home for the new Australian team, and the desire of the Africans to have a stopover point in the long haul they undergo each year is well documented.

And perhaps the ARU has already shown its hand on which city will be preferred with its choice of venue for Test matches in recent years. Perth and Subiaco Oval regularly successfully host the Tri Nations clash with the Springboks in front of capacity crowds of up to 42,500, while Melbourne hosts only moderately successful tourist Tests.

But while national expansion is surely preferred, money, as always, will be a determining factor.

All four likely locations are sure to have secured sponsorship and corporate interest, but the real money in rugby comes from broadcast rights. Whether News Limited accepts the expansion proposal or whether SANZAR is forced to sell the deal piecemeal to broadcasters around the world, a product streamlined for television audiences is key.

Perth opens up a new time zone to be incorporated into the at-times non-stop rugby telecast on Saturday and Sunday nights that stretches halfway around the world. Perth may win out simply because its clocks are two hours behind those on the eastern edge of Australia.

The Central Coast is sure to state a strong case, with finance, population and proximity to Sydney, from where the bulk of the players will surely come.

But it and the Gold Coast will face similar problems in convincing the ARU that they will in truth provide long-term expansion possibilities for the code.

The expansion franchise is a chance for rugby to plant its flag in a new corner of Australia, and the signs are pointing towards the west being won.
http://rugbyheaven.smh.com.au/articl...?oneclick=true

Super 14 tipped for Perth
PERTH is emerging as the favoured location of a fourth Australian team in an expanded Super 14 competition in 2006.

Although the ARU has yet to stipulate its criteria for a team to play alongside NSW, Queensland and the ACT, the West Australian capital has several perceived advantages over its rivals.

Weighing heavily in Perth's favour is its proximity to South Africa and the city's overwhelming support for Test rugby over the past few years.

Furthermore the ARU desperately wants to keep a fourth team under its control through member unions. The WA rugby union is behind the bid.

ARU chief executive Gary Flowers indicated the ARU would not have an open tender process.

"We haven't finalised our exact position, but we fail to see why people should spend money on potentially unsuccessful bids," he said.

"However we can't afford not to listen to commercial proposals, but we will be very up-front and encourage people to go through our member unions."

Flowers said the main criteria would be the team's ability to develop elite players capable of progressing to national selection.

"We will also have to consider the commercial aspects and ability to grow the game at the grassroots," Flowers said.

Perth is leading Melbourne as the preferred home of a fourth team. The chances are remote of a second NSW team, playing at Parramatta Stadium or Gosford's ExpressAdvocate Stadium, or a second Queensland team, based on the Gold Coast.

After the failure of a syndicate headed by prominent businessman John Singleton to get a Central Coast team into the NRL for 2006, there has been renewed speculation he will press for a rugby team to be based at Gosford.

Singleton, whose vast business interests include the Macquarie Broadcasting network, is the rights' holder to Gosford's 20,000-seat stadium.

Although he would not rule out holding talks with rugby officials, Parramatta Leagues Club boss Denis Fitzgerald said the advent of the NSW Government's gaming tax on September 1, had altered the club's plans.
http://foxsports.news.com.au/story/0...-23217,00.html

Super 14 expansion tipped to have a stopover in Perth
PERTH is emerging as the favoured location of a fourth Australian team in an expanded Super 14 competition in 2006.

Although the ARU has yet to stipulate its criteria for a team to play alongside NSW, Queensland and the ACT, the West Australian capital has several perceived advantages over its rivals.

Weighing heavily in Perth's favour is its proximity to South Africa and the city's overwhelming support for Test rugby over the past few years.

Furthermore the ARU desperately wants to keep a fourth team under its control through member unions. The WA rugby union is behind the bid.

ARU chief executive Gary Flowers indicated the ARU would not have an open tender process.

"We haven't finalised our exact position, but we fail to see why people should spend money on potentially unsuccessful bids," he said.

"However we can't afford not to listen to commercial proposals, but we will be very up-front and encourage people to go through our member unions."

Flowers said the main criteria would be the team's ability to develop elite players capable of progressing to national selection.

"We will also have to consider the commercial aspects and ability to grow the game at the grassroots," Flowers said.

Perth is leading Melbourne as the preferred home of a fourth team. The chances are remote of a second NSW team, playing at Parramatta Stadium or Gosford's ExpressAdvocate Stadium, or a second Queensland team, based on the Gold Coast.

After the failure of a syndicate headed by prominent businessman John Singleton to get a Central Coast team into the NRL for 2006, there has been renewed speculation he will press for a rugby team to be based at Gosford.

Singleton, whose vast business interests include the Macquarie Broadcasting network, is the rights' holder to Gosford's 20,000-seat stadium.

Although he would not rule out holding talks with rugby officials, Parramatta Leagues Club boss Denis Fitzgerald said the advent of the NSW Government's gaming tax on September 1, had altered the club's plans.

NSW utility back Milton Thaiday has been suspended indefinitely by the Waratahs and his Sydney club Northern Suburbs.

Thaiday failed to inform Norths that he was unavailable for a Tooheys New Cup game last weekend.

Waratahs coach Ewen McKenzie said Milton had showed great courage this year to publicly acknowledge personal problems stemming from alcohol.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...5E2722,00.html

[barneybuck]

Should be good for Perth.Big risk to try Melbourne.

[TOCC]

And about time Union left the security of its tradtional heartlands to forge new frontiers. For so long they have sit back and bragged about how big it could be. Playing the odd test match is no proof of long term success. I've always thought of RU as all cream and no cake. Whether it is Melbourne or Perth we will see what kind of support they really will get on a regular basis.

More sport is a good thing.

ahh buddy were talking about a new rugby team not a a expedition or something like your imploring.

There are several reasonable replys to what you just said as well, for one the ARU signed with News Corp for a 10yr deal back in 1996, meaning they couldnt have changed the agreement or expanded previously anyway.

Also Super 12 goes for 15weeks including finals and aroung 12international test matches a year, the NRL goes for 30 weeks including finals(kangaroo tours are absolute jokes anyway).

So effectively, the Rugby season is 27-30 weeks long compared to NRL's 30 (and the kangaroo 5?). Thus the reason why the super 12 is only one match verse each opponent. Expanding the comp too seriously would strain the players physically, players make at least 6trips overseas to south africa and new zealand every season, not to mention northern hemisphere tours.

Also there is talk of bringing in another tier of professioal rugby union into australia, proably not till 2008 at least but there is serious consideration over the topic. The idea would be to have a competition which would help bridge the gap between the slower and only half professional club rugby to the fast paced fully professional super 12.
The talk was to have 8 teams or so:
1-Melbourne
1-Perth
3-Sydney
2-Brisbane
1-Pacific Islanders(based in Townsville)
3-Japan

It may seem odd including Japan but the fact that japan actually has more rugby players then australia and new zealand combined hints to the fact that it could be a lucrative market to tap into. The teams in Japan are morestly corporate teams like "Samsung" and "Toshiba" rather then club rugby like in other parts of the world.
Oh well we will have to wait and see and hopefully all this effort pays dividends for the sport nation wide.

[Cee_em_bee]

But Japan still sucks lol.

[sirbugalugs]

Originally Posted by TOCC

ahh buddy were talking about a new rugby team not a a expedition or something like your imploring.

As South Melbourne going to Sydney was a huge leap for AFL so it is for RU to take this step.

I think forging new frontiers is a perfectly apt term in a sporting sense to describe RU push into the southern states.

-buddy.

[Jimmy James]

I hope it succeeds, nothing grazes my nuts more than the pathetic attention the Melbourne Storm receive here, well actually the only thing that does upset me more is the slow-motion demise of the NBL. Back 2 the Storm, sure they're all from Toowoomba (given Toowoomba's population surely they could get a team ) but they're a good team whose city don't even appreciate them. You wouldn't beleive the amount of airtime given to do-nothing AFL teams like Richmond and Hawthorn yet the Storm are in the NRL finals but you wont hear about them on the evening news.

The gulf between north and south sport (as well as football vs non-football) in this country is getting bigger and bigger, talk of Perth getting a RU team gives me hope.

Originally Posted by Jimmy James

I hope it succeeds, nothing grazes my nuts more than the pathetic attention the Melbourne Storm receive here, well actually the only thing that does upset me more is the slow-motion demise of the NBL. Back 2 the Storm, sure they're all from Toowoomba (given Toowoomba's population surely they could get a team ) but they're a good team whose city don't even appreciate them. You wouldn't beleive the amount of airtime given to do-nothing AFL teams like Richmond and Hawthorn yet the Storm are in the NRL finals but you wont hear about them on the evening news.

The gulf between north and south sport (as well as football vs non-football) in this country is getting bigger and bigger, talk of Perth getting a RU team gives me hope.

The Storm get enormous PR from their owners News Corp/Herald
Sun - the rest of the Melbourne media give them the coverage they deserve considering the pathetic support they have struggled to maintain.
Newspapers will print anything if they think it will sell and RL is a dead duck in Melbourne. And lets not have this "its not fair" crap that the AFL get all the attention check the Murdoch papers in Sydney and Brisbane for AFL new and see haw little there is.

[TOCC]

The Storm get enormous PR from their owners News Corp/Herald
Sun - the rest of the Melbourne media give them the coverage they deserve considering the pathetic support they have struggled to maintain.
Newspapers will print anything if they think it will sell and RL is a dead duck in Melbourne. And lets not have this "its not fair" crap that the AFL get all the attention check the Murdoch papers in Sydney and Brisbane for AFL new and see haw little there is.

hmm thats interesting cause im from brisbane and the afl gets as much space in the paper as the league does, and even more then rugby union. So dont go saying stuff you dont know anything about.

But Japan still sucks lol.

I'd love to see Japan take part. They play an exciting brand of rugby and would make for a great added component to the competition.

IMO. Ruby Union is far and away the best of the 3 codes "_". It's played internationaly, and can be played in many different ways making things intresting rather than rugby league which is very much the same old thing in every team that plays.