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Old December 15th, 2015, 04:35 AM   #2061
Woodys Aeroimages
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Both LN 1519 & LN 1523 for the defunct Transaero are now sealed up for storage and moved tot he tower apron for the winter.

747-8i LN1519 & LN1523 by Woodys Aeroimages, on Flickr

747-8i LN1519 & LN1523 by Woodys Aeroimages, on Flickr

747-8i LN1519 & LN1523 by Woodys Aeroimages, on Flickr
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Old December 15th, 2015, 08:39 AM   #2062
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Those planes are essentially brand new, and it is sad to see them in such condition. I wish if there are some airlines whose are willing to purchase them......
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Old December 15th, 2015, 09:23 AM   #2063
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Hmm, maybe Garuda Indonesia can buy & pick up this planes later, when all of the B744 in Garuda's fleet has been retired .
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Old December 15th, 2015, 10:53 AM   #2064
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Not quite so. For which market would they use the type? Jakarta-Jeddah? How heavy is the load factor which is currently served by the Boeing 777?
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Old December 15th, 2015, 05:01 PM   #2065
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LN1434 RC001 9K-GAA for State of Kuwait (former 1st 747-8I test frame) test flight after VIP interior furbishment:

LoveField_14DEC2015-09773 by Bob Hurst, on Flickr


LoveField_14DEC2015-09786 by Bob Hurst, on Flickr
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Old December 19th, 2015, 10:48 PM   #2066
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It looks like the Air Force will have to hold on to its existing modified Presidential 747-200Bs for just a little while longer than anticipated:

Air Force One Update Is Delayed by Budget Deal in Blow to Boeing

by Julie Johnsson & Stacy O'Mara
December 16, 2015 — 6:08 PM EST


Quote:
An order for the first Boeing Co. 747 jumbo jet for the new, upgraded Air Force One fleet to ferry U.S. presidents will be postponed by a year to fiscal 2017 under a congressional budget agreement.

The delay is a setback to Boeing’s efforts to gin up sales of its humpbacked 747-8 model as unfilled orders for the plane dwindle to about two years of production. The planemaker has netted just two orders this year for its largest aircraft, which pioneered long-range travel in the 1970s.

An omnibus federal spending bill hashed out late Tuesday by congressional negotiators provides $82.4 million for the presidential aircraft, $20.2 million less than the U.S. Air Force had sought for fiscal 2016. The Obama administration had proposed buying the first plane this year and a second one in 2020. Boeing’s 747 is the only U.S. plane that meets the Pentagon’s requirement of a modified four-engine airliner.

The upgraded fleet would replace Boeing jumbos flying since the early 1990s. The new 747s also will be packed with equipment not available to commercial customers, including dual auxiliary power units, military avionics, self-defense systems and “autonomous enplaning and deplaning” systems, according to a Feb. 1 budget document.

A message left for comment with Boeing’s defense unit wasn’t immediately returned.

While the Senate had approved full funding for the Air Force One upgrade, the House had recommended postponing the aircraft order “until the design for the aircraft’s mission systems, which constitute a majority of the program’s projected cost, benefits from further risk-reduction activities, and the Air Force finalizes an acquisition strategy.”
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Old December 21st, 2015, 11:48 AM   #2067
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Old December 22nd, 2015, 06:50 PM   #2068
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A7-HHE B748i for Qatar Amiri at Victorville for paint.


Latest arrival at SCLA, a 747-800 headed to paint. Can you believe this is a custom Boeing Business Jet (BBJ)?



Source: Southern California Logistics Airport Facebook page.

https://www.facebook.com/SouthernCal...type=3&theater

Last edited by Woodys Aeroimages; December 22nd, 2015 at 06:57 PM.
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Old December 25th, 2015, 08:25 AM   #2069
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This is as good an obituary as any that I have read:

Quote:
The 747 was never a particularly profitable aircraft for airlines, even in good times. That’s why over the years they pressed Boeing, and its new European rival, Airbus, for slightly smaller, twin-engine aircraft with the range to serve more efficiently the same kind of long-haul routes on which the four-engine and too-big 747 served inefficiently. Boeing’s 767 and Airbus’ A300 were the first “smaller” twin-aisle jets to take over all of the U.S. domestic, and some of the international routes that the 747 had proved too big to serve. On longer international routes Airbus’ four-engine A340 and two-engine A330 models were less successful than Boeing’s 777, which proved to be a huge hit for Boeing when it debuted 20 years ago. But all three were more economical to operate than the massive 747, which saw its sales go into a slide in the 1980s from which they never really have recovered.

More recently the Boeing 787 and the Airbus A350 have cut deeper still into the 747’s niche, so much so that there’s very little niche left for it.

Even the few routes where a plane with more than 400 seats can be flown profitably year-round increasingly are being served by the behemoth 550-seat A380. The A380 arguably suffers from the same “too-big-for-existing-demand” issue that has dogged the 747 from its birth. That explains why it has been a relatively slow seller, too. But it has been flying off the shelves, so to speak, in comparison with the 747 in recent years.

Boeing officials quietly are hoping to keep the 747 line going long enough to land a contract to build two more highly-modified 747-8s to replace the two 25-year-old 747-200s that today serve as Air Force One. Nothing serves as a better advertisement for Boeing than having the President of the United States use it as his flagship.

By the time the new Air Force Ones could be ready to fly the two current aircraft used to ferry the President and his team around the globe will have exceeded their 30-year design life. But the high price tag associated with building two very special aircraft equipped with tons of top secret gear and special shielding against electronic warfare has caused many in Congress to fight back against that plan. A protracted debate over funding new Air Force Ones likely would cause Boeing to shut down its 747 production line before a decision could be made. Thus, future presidents may have to settle for the two old birds now in service, or, gasp, downsize to the 777 or 787.

But what is clear is that however the final chapter of the 747s’ story plays out, we are in the final chapter. In fact, we’re now nearing the end of that final chapter.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/danielre...con-of-an-era/
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Old December 25th, 2015, 08:40 AM   #2070
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^
With the 777-9, Boeing actually makes their own 747s obsolete. They both seem to have the exact same passenger capacity. Don't understand why Boeing is still bothering with 747. The upper market is taken by A380 and below that Boeings own 777 come to play.
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Old December 25th, 2015, 11:03 AM   #2071
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jam5 View Post
This is as good an obituary as any that I have read:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/danielre...con-of-an-era/
This is actually pretty bad in terms of an obituary. Usually there is some hyperbole, but typically in favor of the subject. In this case it is either against the 747, or just outright a lack of research or knowledge.

Quote:
These days Boeing can barely give away copies of its unpopular, windowless freighter version. Boeing netted just two orders for 747-8F freighters this year, same as last year.
While the net is technically correct, Boeing sold 6 total frames so far this year, so it's a bit disingenuous to simply quote the net out of context.

Quote:
And those two orders – both unexpected last-minute deals, barely count as sales.
These were far from unexpected last-minute deals. The ABC frames are part of the MoU from the PAS where ABC has talked about taking 18-20 frames total.

Quote:
The planes then were lease – at what are widely suspected to be bargain rates – to a struggling Russian air cargo carrier called AirBridge Cargo whose prospects for survival are, to be kind, iffy.
Data? Research? Have you seen the financials of ABC over the last two years? They have seen healthy double-digit growth, they are expanding their network aggressively, and they have a plan to continue their growth, hence their need for the frames announced at PAS.

Quote:
Depending on how one counts, and on who’s doing the counting, Boeing currently has either six or eight “white tail” 747-8Fs sitting.
Just an absolute lack of knowledge. There are exactly 4 currently. One -8Fs, and three -8is. On the outside, you could technically count 1520 still as a white tail, so that would make it 5 total, but that frame is already allocated to ABC.

Quote:
And as many as half of the 22 existing orders for 747-8Fs, were placed by carriers that possess extremely uncertain abilities to get the financing needed to acquire even one 747 (which lists at $357 million without the four engines it requires).
This is just an absolute made up statement with no justification. The backlog at this moment is down to 20, and they are not all -8Fs. Without counting the extra two, the backlog is 1 -8F each for CX, CV, and KE, as well as 2 for NCA and 2 for Silk Way. None of those are in question for financing, and that is 7 -8Fs.

The rest of the backlog are 6 -8is for KE, 4 for UN, 2 for Arik Air, and 1 BBJ. Out of those, the BBJ is simply awaiting outfitting space at what is suspected to be Lufthansa Technik, and the KE ones are solid financially.

So, there are 20 total in the backlog, 7 -8F and 13 -8i. 6 total, the Transaero and Arik Air birds, total, look to be needing new homes, not even close to half of 22...

There's a lot more that is really quite suspect technically, but I'll leave it at that.
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Last edited by gennadius; December 25th, 2015 at 11:17 AM. Reason: Added in some extra parts
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Old December 25th, 2015, 11:32 AM   #2072
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goschio View Post
^
With the 777-9, Boeing actually makes their own 747s obsolete. They both seem to have the exact same passenger capacity. Don't understand why Boeing is still bothering with 747. The upper market is taken by A380 and below that Boeings own 777 come to play.
While the efficiency of the 777 has hurt the prospects of the 747, even the 777-9 is still smaller than the 747, and they do not have the same exact passenger capacity.

To be clear, passenger capacity is a function of the airlines, not Boeing, so they can put varying numbers in there, constrained simply by the floorspace, but even Boeing lists the 777-9 as 400-425 in a 2-class configuration. In a 3-class configuration, that would likely be about 340-355.

The 747-8 is listed at 410 in a 3-class configuration, and would likely be around 480 or so in a 2-class configuration.

In terms of the why, there was a niche between the 777 and the 380 that the 747 can fit if the fleet and route structure is aligned for it. However, it seems that it was a smaller niche than Boeing anticipated, and the 777-9 will make that even smaller. The 747-8 coming in late and slightly under-performing and overweight did not help their prospects either.
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Old December 25th, 2015, 12:07 PM   #2073
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Old December 26th, 2015, 12:45 AM   #2074
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A 747 with three engines? Ponder.
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Old December 26th, 2015, 01:20 AM   #2075
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A 747 with three engines? Ponder.
There will never be another new three-engine airliner -- at least as long as airliners are powered by jet engines. Twins have better efficiency and lower maintenance costs.
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Old December 26th, 2015, 01:24 AM   #2076
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Happy Christmas! Here's a treat for you from SFO:

Air China B747-8I (reg. B-2486)
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Old December 26th, 2015, 01:33 AM   #2077
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gennadius View Post
While the efficiency of the 777 has hurt the prospects of the 747, even the 777-9 is still smaller than the 747, and they do not have the same exact passenger capacity.
The 777-9X will be slightly smaller (in terms of floor area or passenger capacity) than the 747-400. If there ever will be a commercially viable airliner larger than the 777-9X, it probably won't be before 2030. I think Airbus and Boeing have no appetite to repeat the heavy losses of the 747-8 program (several billion dollars) and the devastating losses of the A380 program (already upwards of $25 billion and trending toward $30 billion).
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Old December 26th, 2015, 03:46 AM   #2078
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post
...the A380 program (already upwards of $25 billion and trending toward $30 billion).
Do you have any source that endorse those numbers?
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Old December 26th, 2015, 04:26 AM   #2079
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Quote:
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Do you have any source that endorse those numbers?
Aviation Week and Wall Street Journal are behind paywalls, but here is an open Bloomberg source: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...e-in-the-skies

On top of the $25 billion invested, every A380 sold so far has added to the sea of red ink -- at least until 2015 when Airbus claim that they had finally brought production costs down to match revenues, but most analysts are skeptical of that claim.
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Old December 26th, 2015, 07:13 AM   #2080
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"Queen Of The Skies - Boeing 747"

Air India | Boeing 747-400 | VT-ESP named "Ajanta" at Cochin International Airport - VOCI/COK!

Spotted By : Seenivasan Source : https://www.facebook.com/planespottersindia/?fref=ts
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