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Old September 16th, 2011, 08:47 PM   #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxi_Moscow View Post
I think they will get enough orders. But it wont be instantly.
I disagree. In the next couple of years Boeing are going to improve the 777 and increase it's capacity. This will probably kill the passenger 748, the cargo version probably has a future.
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Old September 16th, 2011, 11:00 PM   #262
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I disagree. In the next couple of years Boeing are going to improve the 777 and increase it's capacity. This will probably kill the passenger 748, the cargo version probably has a future.
We'll see.
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Old September 17th, 2011, 08:40 PM   #263
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Boeing 747-8 Hits ‘Horrendous’ Setback

By Susanna Ray - Sep 17, 2011 11:53 AM GMT+0800

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Boeing Co. (BA) had to postpone next week’s inaugural delivery of the 747-8 freighter, a jet already two years behind schedule, after its initial customer refused to accept the first two planes.
Boeing had to cancel three days’ worth of ceremonies and events beginning Sept. 19 because of “unresolved issues” with Cargolux Airlines International SA, said spokesman Jim Proulx. He declined to comment further on the reason for the dispute. The carrier was scheduled to fly its first load of freight on the new plane out of Seattle that same day.
The clash mars the arrival of the newest and biggest version of the jumbo jet that, with its iconic hump, has been Boeing’s marquis model since its inception in the 1960s. It also comes after numerous struggles at the company, including a three-year setback to its 787 Dreamliner, inroads into its customer base by Airbus SAS and a shift in its new-jet strategy.
“It’s horrendous,” said Ken Herbert, an analyst with Wedbush Securities in San Francisco, in an interview yesterday. “Just when you finally thought they were going to turn the corner, this happens.”
[...]
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Old September 23rd, 2011, 03:41 PM   #264
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As much as i like the 748I, i have to acknowledge that A380 offers superior value proposition to airlines and passengers.
For the next smaller aircraft, the proposed B777X seem to be more attractive than B748I.

I would however like to see Boeing or someone develops the 'Eco-Liner' to replace the B748I sooner rather than later. I'd think this Eco-Liner will be more optimised than the A380.
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Old September 24th, 2011, 01:57 AM   #265
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Originally Posted by lianli View Post
Boeing 747-8 Hits ‘Horrendous’ Setback
Unfortunately. I wonder how ABC (AirBridgeCargo) will react to those issues associated with first aircraft.

I am booking a flight with Lufthansa once they get their passenger version aircraft.
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Old September 24th, 2011, 10:58 AM   #266
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anyone knows what's the problem cargolux faces with boeing regarding the delivery of the first B748F?
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Old September 24th, 2011, 04:09 PM   #267
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It's about compensation for the 747-8F not hitting it's fuel burn targets. In other words, they want money from Boeing because the engines burn more fuel then Boeing initial specs for the plane. Both Boeing and the engine manufacturer General Electric are working on improvement packages for the aerodynamics and the engines but they will only be available from 2012/2013. Cargolux wants a compensation for the performance between the delivery and the upgrades.

But this already played a role before 1 major change happened, and Cargolux wasn't planning on postponing the delivery until a couple of days ago.

The big change is that Qatar Airways recently bought 35% of Cargolux, and the first board meeting with the new shareholder was just last week. Only at that meeting it was decided not to take delivery of the planes. Therefor it's fair to say that Qatar Airways is behind this last minute dispute.
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Old September 24th, 2011, 08:24 PM   #268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momo1435 View Post
It's about compensation for the 747-8F not hitting it's fuel burn targets. In other words, they want money from Boeing because the engines burn more fuel then Boeing initial specs for the plane. Both Boeing and the engine manufacturer General Electric are working on improvement packages for the aerodynamics and the engines but they will only be available from 2012/2013. Cargolux wants a compensation for the performance between the delivery and the upgrades.

But this already played a role before 1 major change happened, and Cargolux wasn't planning on postponing the delivery until a couple of days ago.

The big change is that Qatar Airways recently bought 35% of Cargolux, and the first board meeting with the new shareholder was just last week. Only at that meeting it was decided not to take delivery of the planes. Therefor it's fair to say that Qatar Airways is behind this last minute dispute.
Oh I see. Hope they'll reach some agreement soon.

While B748F has received quite a bit of orders, orders for B748I has been slow so far. Can't help but feeling rather apprehensive if it will receive significant new orders in future, if any.
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Old September 24th, 2011, 09:48 PM   #269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momo1435 View Post
The big change is that Qatar Airways recently bought 35% of Cargolux, and the first board meeting with the new shareholder was just last week. Only at that meeting it was decided not to take delivery of the planes. Therefor it's fair to say that Qatar Airways is behind this last minute dispute.
Let's just say that Al Baker is still unhappy with his QR-B787 compensations. He is (mis)using this delivery ceremony what had to be cancelled for extra leverage.
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Old September 26th, 2011, 01:53 PM   #270
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Two different customers refusing delivery of the first batch of freighters despite increased financial compensation offers isnt good. Boeings now staking its future on the 737 Max despite not even making a final decision over 62, 66 or 68 inch fan diameters.
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Old September 26th, 2011, 03:17 PM   #271
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................... Boeings now staking its future on the 737 Max despite not even making a final decision over 62, 66 or 68 inch fan diameters.
Are all the above mentioned options technically feasible? Would any of these options require the lengthening of the landing gear?
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Old September 26th, 2011, 07:00 PM   #272
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66 and 68 require a landing gear redesign for extra height, the 68 in particular it would have to be strengthened for extra weight too. One of the options (cant remember, think it was 62) requires a redesigned nose cone.
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Old September 26th, 2011, 11:02 PM   #273
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No, 68 inch is still feasable according to Boeing without raising the landing gear, but it is the limit which has some consequences a 66 inch fan might not have since 68 inch is really pushing it. And it is becasue of that very costly design change of a raised main landing gear will not be implemented. The effeciency of the Leap-X GE engines will suffer a bit since the C-Series has a main fan diameter in the mid-70 inches and the A320-NEO will have a fan diameter of 82 inches. The P&W GTF might even be a bit bigger, and will not be offered on the B737-MAX because it simply will not fit under low hanging wing og the B737.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WatcherZero View Post
Two different customers refusing delivery of the first batch of freighters despite increased financial compensation offers isnt good.
As much as I like the B747, she is at the end of her economic life and totally no match for the A380. This program was totally not necessary. With no A380-F a small refurbihment of the B747-400F would have been sufficient and Boeing would continue to make money on the B747 program. Now this program is also (like the B787) in a forward loss position without a reasonable chance to ever get in the black numbers instead of being in the red numbers. The B787 will saleswise overcome her massive cost overruns. The B747-8 will for sure not do so. And now Boeing is openly thinking about a renewed and improved B777-8X/9X. Since the B77W has already "killed off" the B747 almost completely, the market and the next B777-X developments will do the rest.
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Last edited by EPA001; September 26th, 2011 at 11:09 PM.
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Old September 27th, 2011, 07:13 PM   #274
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No, 68 inch is still feasable according to Boeing without raising the landing gear, but it is the limit which has some consequences a 66 inch fan might not have since 68 inch is really pushing it. And it is becasue of that very costly design change of a raised main landing gear will not be implemented. The effeciency of the Leap-X GE engines will suffer a bit since the C-Series has a main fan diameter in the mid-70 inches and the A320-NEO will have a fan diameter of 82 inches. The P&W GTF might even be a bit bigger, and will not be offered on the B737-MAX because it simply will not fit under low hanging wing og the B737.



As much as I like the B747, she is at the end of her economic life and totally no match for the A380. This program was totally not necessary. With no A380-F a small refurbihment of the B747-400F would have been sufficient and Boeing would continue to make money on the B747 program. Now this program is also (like the B787) in a forward loss position without a reasonable chance to ever get in the black numbers instead of being in the red numbers. The B787 will saleswise overcome her massive cost overruns. The B747-8 will for sure not do so. And now Boeing is openly thinking about a renewed and improved B777-8X/9X. Since the B77W has already "killed off" the B747 almost completely, the market and the next B777-X developments will do the rest.
What's the leap from B77W - B777X?


In B737Max and B748I, seems like strategic miscalcultions?
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Old September 27th, 2011, 11:40 PM   #275
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The B737-MAX will be huge success. Maybe not as big as the NEO, but will bring Boeing a lot of money without having to do too much to the airframe (which is about as mature as it can be). A new NB would have cost at least $15 Billion more and would not return money that Boeing that fast as the MAX will for sure do. As John Leahy always predicted Boeing is following Airbus strategy to re-engine, though the B737 is much more design limited (especially by the low undercarriage) then the A320-series are.

The leap for the B777 to the -X versions is still under consideration. Possibly a new, bigger wing (fully adapting the Airbus strategy here as well just as the B787 has done ), newer engines, new interior, weight saving program as drastically as they can, possible slightly increased capacity and capabilities. That plane will most likely exceed the B748 in virtually every category except maximum capacity. But the difference in that department will also be small, while the CASM and TCO in this case will clearly favor the B777-8X and B777-9X.

The A350 will on CASM and TCO though a very, very tough target. But with the larger capacity, Boeing might still tie (especially on the -9X-version) on CASM with the A350, but they will have to do a lot of work to get there. But it is not impossible imho.
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Old September 28th, 2011, 05:43 AM   #276
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Somewhere on my camera I have pics of the interior of the 747-8 Intercontinental mockup...i'll try to upload that soon.
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Old October 5th, 2011, 12:02 PM   #277
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http://paineairport.com/kpae4258.htm
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Old October 5th, 2011, 04:57 PM   #278
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Looks good!

BTW:
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Old October 5th, 2011, 11:22 PM   #279
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Amazing pic!!!!
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Old October 7th, 2011, 07:51 AM   #280
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Quote:
Arik Air becomes third airline in the world to order Boeing 747-8 Intercontinental

[IMG]http://i53.************/a428if.jpg[/IMG]

Nigeria’s Arik Air has ordered two Boeing 747-8 Intercontinental airliners, Boeing announced Thursday. The order makes Arik the first 747-8 customer in Africa and third worldwide for the passenger version, after Lufthansa and Korean air.

Boeing previously attributed the order to an unidentified customer on its orders website. It is worth $635 million at list prices, although customers get substantial discounts.
747-8

“Air travel within the region continues to grow at a rapid pace and we must prepare our fleet to accommodate that growth,” Arik owner and Chairman JIA Arumemi-Johnson said in a news release. “Boeing’s new 747-8 fits perfectly into our long-term planning. It brings the best operating economics for its size, which is important with the increase in fuel prices.”

The order was announced during a signing ceremony at the Corporate Council for Africa’s 8th Biennial U.S.-Africa Business Summit in Washington, D.C.

Boeing is scheduled to deliver the first 747-8 Freighter to launch Customer Cargolux later this month, pending approval of a deal between Cargolux and engine-maker GE over shortcomings with the engine, the first 747-8 Intercontinental to a private customer later this year and the first airline 747-8 Intercontinental to Lufthansa early next year.

Boeing now had orders for 111 747-8s, including 36 Intercontinentals.
http://blog.seattlepi.com/aerospace/...ercontinental/
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