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Old August 7th, 2013, 08:53 PM   #541
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AirBridgeCargo VQ-BRH is coming back from long-term storage at Pinal Airpark.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/B...600Z/KMZJ/KPAE
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Old August 7th, 2013, 09:53 PM   #542
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momo1435 View Post
The recent add campaign battle between Airbus and Boeing ended up in court. Boeing won this time around.

Full article:
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...sement-389223/


conclusion: juggling with numbers is allowed.
The ads from both sides have been so silly, that it is purely entertainment at this stage. Clearly the fleet planners are not the target audience.

What would be interesting to see are what the actual numbers look like. I know that the topic has come up recently elsewhere, and even with the topic sometimes taking a left turn into nostalgia, I think that is the correct question to be asking.

There is an Aviation Week article here: http://www.aviationweek.com/Article....604361.xml&p=1

On the second page, it has a quote I found interesting.

Quote:
However, one airline industry source with detailed inside knowledge of performance data for both aircraft on comparable routes and layout standards says there is hardly any unit cost difference between the 747-8 and the A380. Even so, that data does suggest a trip cost advantage for Boeing in excess of 20%, the official says. Unlike the unit cost figures, which appear to be off for both the Boeing and Airbus claims, the trip cost level would be relatively close to what Boeing markets for its largest aircraft.
If that is accurate, then those numbers would only improve with the addition of the upcoming PIP for the aircraft, correct?

Perhaps there are some airlines that have been sitting on the sidelines waiting for more hard data like this and for the upgrades that the long-talked about PIP will bring.
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Old August 8th, 2013, 12:03 PM   #543
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RC604 back to Everett from MZJ storage. ABC probably will take delivery soon.

image hosted on flickr

AirBridgeCargo RH (N769BA) Boeing 747-8F by moonm, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

AirBridgeCargo RH (N769BA) Boeing 747-8F by moonm, on Flickr
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Old August 8th, 2013, 05:14 PM   #544
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Well that was a short storage. ABC got new management. So maybe the new guy finally figured out a way to use that plane and other 747-8Fs to make money.
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Old August 8th, 2013, 10:22 PM   #545
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The one that came out of storage went to the desert 6 months ago. The other one that gone in last week is still out there together with 2 for NCA and 1 for Cargolux.
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Old August 9th, 2013, 05:41 PM   #546
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I think I saw RC604's approach to PAE the other day.
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Old August 9th, 2013, 11:17 PM   #547
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RC604 delivery is scheduled for mid-September.
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Old August 11th, 2013, 05:48 AM   #548
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gennadius View Post
[...]

If that is accurate, then those numbers would only improve with the addition of the upcoming PIP for the aircraft, correct?

Perhaps there are some airlines that have been sitting on the sidelines waiting for more hard data like this and for the upgrades that the long-talked about PIP will bring.

The sales of the 747-8I won´t improve much.

Let´s face it: For the average passenger the 747-8I is just another Jumbo version in the 40-year long history of that aircraft type but on the other hand the A380 is still considered as something totally new and "exciting".
People want to fly in thie A380 and experience the quietest cabin on the market and the enormous space provided on its two full-length decks (although most of them don´t have access to both decks ).
The airlines know their passengers` fascination and they will order more A380s when the need arises instead of 747-8Is.
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Last edited by Deadeye Reloaded; August 12th, 2013 at 01:58 AM.
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Old August 11th, 2013, 07:37 AM   #549
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Quote:
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In order to keep their Boeing 747 sales alive, Boeing is making a buyback program, where airlines can trade their elderly airplane with Boeing in order to buy newer Boeing 747-8i/F with reduced price. Surprisingly, Boeing is also willing to take Airbus planes too!

In this article, there is a quote on why the sales of Boeing 747 is lagging behind Boeing 777:



More can be read in here:

http://www.businessweek.com/articles...mpaign_id=yhoo
I wonder if Delta and United are going to follow suit in trading in their 747-400s for the newer 747-8s.
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Old August 11th, 2013, 12:14 PM   #550
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Quote:
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I wonder if Delta and United are going to follow suit in trading in their 747-400s for the newer 747-8s.
Unlikely. United has committed to all models of the B787 and the largest A350 model, while Delta is not even looking for B777-300ER sized aircraft, let alone a larger 747-8.
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Old August 15th, 2013, 08:35 AM   #551
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LH B748 @ FRA



source: photo taken by Café am Jachthafen
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Old August 15th, 2013, 10:28 AM   #552
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Quote:
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Unlikely. United has committed to all models of the B787 and the largest A350 model, while Delta is not even looking for B777-300ER sized aircraft, let alone a larger 747-8.
Major US airlines were the first to show that they could survive globally without the presence of jumbojet aircraft. American Airlines and Delta Airlines (in pre Northwest merger era) is a good example of that.
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Old August 15th, 2013, 03:13 PM   #553
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadeye Reloaded View Post

The sales of the 747-8I won´t improve much.

Let´s face it: For the average passenger the 747-8I is just another Jumbo version in the 40-year long history of that aircraft type but on the other hand the A380 is still considered as something totally new and "exciting".
People want to fly in thie A380 and experience the quietest cabin on the market and the enormous space provided on its two full-length decks (although most of them don´t have access to both decks ).
The airlines know their passengers` fascination and they will order more A380s when the need arises instead of 747-8Is.
Is it really the reason or is it that Airbus offers better financing program on top of having newer technology and new product?

I would imagine that B747-8is has the same fuel efficiency and newer technology as much as Airbus fleets but I am more inclined to believe that it has something to do with the fact that it is easier to work with Airbus financially. I'm not saying Airbus is cheaper but I think they do work with better payment plan with their customers. Although, Airbus's technology which is mostly fly-by-wire technology is something that makes airbus fleets cheaper than Boeing and that when airline companies have Airbus, not only that it's fuel efficient, the maintenance cost as well as crew training are more cost effective than running different Boeing fleets.
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Old August 15th, 2013, 06:09 PM   #554
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If Airbus is that much better on all fronts why does Boeing has a bigger backlog of wide-body orders then Airbus?


Both the A380 and the 747-8 are not selling the last couple of years, so there's something else at play here. And the main reason for the advantage of the A380 is that it's in many configurations more economic then the 747-8. Plus the size difference between the 747 and the 777-300ER is not big enough to give the 747 a clear advantage over the 777 that has sold extremely good over the last couple of years.
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Old August 15th, 2013, 06:27 PM   #555
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Quote:
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Is it really the reason or is it that Airbus offers better financing program on top of having newer technology and new product?

I would imagine that B747-8is has the same fuel efficiency and newer technology as much as Airbus fleets but I am more inclined to believe that it has something to do with the fact that it is easier to work with Airbus financially. I'm not saying Airbus is cheaper but I think they do work with better payment plan with their customers. Although, Airbus's technology which is mostly fly-by-wire technology is something that makes airbus fleets cheaper than Boeing and that when airline companies have Airbus, not only that it's fuel efficient, the maintenance cost as well as crew training are more cost effective than running different Boeing fleets.
How about the amount of US taxes on a boeing plane? Airbus doesnt have to deal with that.

But Boeing still does very well. not a big deal
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Old August 18th, 2013, 04:09 AM   #556
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As I'm thinking about it, Boeing really did make a massive mistake in not making a full twin deck passenger plane. A380 is getting way more sales, and barely anyone seems interested in the B 747-8i...
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Old August 18th, 2013, 05:10 AM   #557
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Developing a whole new twin deck airliner for the sake of maybe a couple of hundred sales? Don't think so.
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Old August 18th, 2013, 10:06 AM   #558
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What Boeing should have done was offering a more simple slightly bigger, re-engined 747-400F. And then 1st concentrate first solely on the 787 so it would not be delayed as much as it did. And then concentrate on the 777X with a EIS around 2015 or go for a completely new big twin engined wide-body platform (the original Y3 project) with a EIS around 2020.

Since the 777-300ER has currently outsold the combined number of order for the 747-8I, the A340-600, the A350-1000 and the A380. Putting more focus on a new large twin yet placed above the 787 instead of the 747-8 would have been a much more logical decision.
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Old August 19th, 2013, 06:19 AM   #559
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Developing a whole new twin deck airliner for the sake of maybe a couple of hundred sales? Don't think so.
They already had the MD-12 that could of continued from the MD company they bought out. Boeing could have started a new line of full twin deck aircraft and even if it would of gotten 200 more sales that is still way better than the 40 B747-8is currently ordered. 200 more would be 240 aircraft sales in total if they had the twin deck plane instead of the 747 8i. So according to you its 40 sales or 240. A couple hundred in sales would of been way better.

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Old August 19th, 2013, 09:19 AM   #560
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We will see the resurgence of jumbo jets once we find cheap, and plentiful fuels instead of fossil fuel.
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