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Old March 7th, 2014, 05:42 AM   #861
gennadius
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garbo View Post
Hi! There will be any other orders for the passenger version of the 747?
Other airlines that have ordered the 747-8I other than Lufthansa are:

Korean Air Lines and Air China, as bagus70 stated.

Additionally, Transaero and Arik Air have placed orders. The Arik Air orders are in doubt, as they are supposed to have converted them to 773 orders. As of the current date, the Arik Air orders are still listed under Boeing's orders list, so if they do make that change, it hasn't been made official yet.

As for future orders, there is nothing firm at the moment, although it is known that Transaero is looking at potentially converting other orders to the 747-8, or simply ordering more on top of the 4 that they have firm.

Beyond that, there is the statement from Turkish Airlines that they make every year that they are evaluating both the 380 and the 747-8 for possible orders, and the persistent rumors that Cathay Pacific may order some frames since they have a substantial fleet of 747-8Fs.

Late last year, Boeing claimed to have a commitment for some frames from an airline that they say never operated the 747 before. It is unclear exactly what that means, but no firm order has yet resulted from that statement.

I believe that fleet planners are constantly evaluating how various frames can potentially fit into their strategy, and with the 8I, I think many airlines are potentially watching to see how Lufthansa's frames are working out for them, especially now that they have the PIP'd versions coming online. One must remember that Intercontinentals have only been performing revenue service for under a couple of years to this point.
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Old March 7th, 2014, 12:34 PM   #862
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Old March 8th, 2014, 03:33 PM   #863
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In beginning of April, Lufthansa will start to use 747-8 on the route Frankfourt x Sao Paulo
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Old March 9th, 2014, 04:23 AM   #864
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Took this picture in MEX

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Old March 9th, 2014, 05:42 PM   #865
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gennadius View Post
Beyond that, there is the statement from Turkish Airlines that they make every year that they are evaluating both the 380 and the 747-8 for possible orders, and the persistent rumors that Cathay Pacific may order some frames since they have a substantial fleet of 747-8Fs.
This might sounds plausible since Cathay Pacific seemed to love Boeing 747. So much that they even purchased second hand Boeing 747-400 from Singapore Airlines, and still upgrading them.

And unlike some of its rivals who already operating A380, Cathay Pacific does not enjoy financial support from government like what other flag carriers have.
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Old March 10th, 2014, 12:36 PM   #866
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bagus70 View Post
This might sounds plausible since Cathay Pacific seemed to love Boeing 747. So much that they even purchased second hand Boeing 747-400 from Singapore Airlines, and still upgrading them.

And unlike some of its rivals who already operating A380, Cathay Pacific does not enjoy financial support from government like what other flag carriers have.
You seem to be insinuating that A380 operators are subsidized, and that an airline flying A380s cannot be possibly making money. One could also argue that Korean Air ordered the B748I because KAI makes parts for it, and that Arik Air's order is purely political.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gennadius View Post
I believe that fleet planners are constantly evaluating how various frames can potentially fit into their strategy, and with the 8I, I think many airlines are potentially watching to see how Lufthansa's frames are working out for them, especially now that they have the PIP'd versions coming online. One must remember that Intercontinentals have only been performing revenue service for under a couple of years to this point.
You're being a bit optimistic, I feel. The problem is size: most airlines which need a 300 to 380 seater have ordered the B777-300ER. The latter is more efficient than the B748I. With the 777-9 coming online, it'll effectively end the 748I as a passenger carrier.
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Old March 10th, 2014, 05:37 PM   #867
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Saudi Arabian Airlines Cargo HZ-AI3 at Hong Kong International
20th February 2014
Link: http://www.airliners.net/photo/Saudi...SCD/2406290/L/
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Old March 11th, 2014, 03:39 AM   #868
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it seems for me 747-8 is better profitable as freighter plane...


patel2897...you forgot the 787 again....
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Old March 11th, 2014, 05:25 PM   #869
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Watch View Post
Saudi Arabian Airlines Cargo HZ-AI3 at Hong Kong International
20th February 2014
Link: http://www.airliners.net/photo/Saudi...SCD/2406290/L/
Absolutely stunning. Saudia's livery looks amazing on the 747-8F. Too bad they wont order more and replace more of the cargo fleet.
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Old March 13th, 2014, 11:23 PM   #870
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Saudi Arabian Airlines Cargo HZ-AI4 at Frankfurt am Main
24th February 2014
Link: http://www.airliners.net/photo/Saudi...SCD/2407471/L/
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Old March 16th, 2014, 04:02 PM   #871
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British Airways 747 at Sea-Tac


Cargolux 747 at Sea-Tac


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Old March 17th, 2014, 10:45 PM   #872
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddes View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by gennadius
I believe that fleet planners are constantly evaluating how various frames can potentially fit into their strategy, and with the 8I, I think many airlines are potentially watching to see how Lufthansa's frames are working out for them, especially now that they have the PIP'd versions coming online. One must remember that Intercontinentals have only been performing revenue service for under a couple of years to this point.
You're being a bit optimistic, I feel. The problem is size: most airlines which need a 300 to 380 seater have ordered the B777-300ER. The latter is more efficient than the B748I. With the 777-9 coming online, it'll effectively end the 748I as a passenger carrier.
A little bit optimistic, perhaps, but fleet planning and capacity management is not as black and white as all of us on the outside like to think it is. From a purely CASM PoV, if you can fill the 747-8I (410+ seat range), it will be more efficient than the 777-300ER (350+ seats). The issue is if you can't fill that number of seats, then that very quickly turns the other way, and if you can fill it consistently, chances are that you can fill the larger capacity of the A380 (500+ seats), which will make that much more efficient in that case.

However, that metric is only one of many that are factored in by airlines in their fleet planning. RASM is also important, and that is why I was stating that airlines are watching Lufthansa, since they seem very happy with their frames, and have found a good, premium heavy way, to fit the 747-8I into a fleet that also contains the A380.

KE will receive their first frames later this year I believe, so it will be interesting to see how they configure their frames. UN has already stated that they are following a similar pattern as LH, in that their 380s will be very dense, and their 747-8s will be geared towards more premium revenue.
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Old March 17th, 2014, 10:49 PM   #873
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTR66 View Post
Absolutely stunning. Saudia's livery looks amazing on the 747-8F. Too bad they wont order more and replace more of the cargo fleet.
It does look great in that livery. Why won't they potentially order more? As the cargo market comes back, they could look to retire their older frames.
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Old March 18th, 2014, 01:35 AM   #874
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gennadius View Post
KE will receive their first frames later this year I believe, so it will be interesting to see how they configure their frames. UN has already stated that they are following a similar pattern as LH, in that their 380s will be very dense, and their 747-8s will be geared towards more premium revenue.
Agreed, it will be an interesting development to follow.

The Lufthansa A380s however are not that dense, and will receive a cabin overhaul during 2014-2015 with new J and W seats, making them a four-class A380 like BA. UN on the other hand will only have a handful premium seats.
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Old March 18th, 2014, 02:54 AM   #875
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XWB View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by gennadius
KE will receive their first frames later this year I believe, so it will be interesting to see how they configure their frames. UN has already stated that they are following a similar pattern as LH, in that their 380s will be very dense, and their 747-8s will be geared towards more premium revenue.
Agreed, it will be an interesting development to follow.

The Lufthansa A380s however are not that dense, and will receive a cabin overhaul during 2014-2015 with new J and W seats, making them a four-class A380 like BA. UN on the other hand will only have a handful premium seats.
Ah, yes, I was a little unclear in my wording. I was speaking of UN following LH's lead regarding the configuration of the 748 primarily.

Is KE more dense on their 380s? Do you know if LH will increase density when they do their cabin upgrade to get the new J and the premium econ sections?

Whatever the case, it should be an interesting year to follow for sure, as we see how some of these decisions around the 747-8 play out in terms of planning!
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Old March 28th, 2014, 02:12 AM   #876
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LN 1519 has been allocated to Transaero.

http://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/p...G1wOXVObjZ3Wmc
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Old March 28th, 2014, 04:41 AM   #877
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Wow! Good to know that Transaero has finalized their order.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gennadius View Post
A little bit optimistic, perhaps, but fleet planning and capacity management is not as black and white as all of us on the outside like to think it is. From a purely CASM PoV, if you can fill the 747-8I (410+ seat range), it will be more efficient than the 777-300ER (350+ seats). The issue is if you can't fill that number of seats, then that very quickly turns the other way, and if you can fill it consistently, chances are that you can fill the larger capacity of the A380 (500+ seats), which will make that much more efficient in that case. However, that metric is only one of many that are factored in by airlines in their fleet planning. RASM is also important, and that is why I was stating that airlines are watching Lufthansa, since they seem very happy with their frames, and have found a good, premium heavy way, to fit the 747-8I into a fleet that also contains the A380. KE will receive their first frames later this year I believe, so it will be interesting to see how they configure their frames. UN has already stated that they are following a similar pattern as LH, in that their 380s will be very dense, and their 747-8s will be geared towards more premium revenue.
Good point here. Hmmm, let's wait a little more when the two Asian carriers receives their 748i. It will be an interesting development if the plane will exceed their expectations just like with Lufthansa.
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Old March 28th, 2014, 05:38 AM   #878
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Guys ! Slightly off topic. Any chance for Boeing to manufacture a new model similar to A380 just by extending the Second deck to its full length, In terms of Complete double decker flight ?

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Image Courtesy : Aviationexplorer
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Old March 28th, 2014, 06:00 AM   #879
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They should make a brand new design if they want to build full-lenght double decker. If they build like picture above, what an ugly aircraft.
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Old March 28th, 2014, 01:49 PM   #880
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Guys ! Slightly off topic. Any chance for Boeing to manufacture a new model similar to A380 just by extending the Second deck to its full length, In terms of Complete double decker flight ?

Like this


Image Courtesy : Aviationexplorer
That is ugly! double decker has been done.. should try for something else
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