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Old July 2nd, 2014, 12:20 PM   #1081
bagus70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Сталин View Post
Was the 1000th Boeing 747 was delivered in 1994? It's the oldest picture I can find of it from that year. That was about 20 years ago.

http://jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=30264&nseq=0
The plane first flown in September 1993, and delivered to Singapore Airlines in October 1993.

More details of that historic aircraft in this website:

http://www.airfleets.net/ficheapp/plane-b747-27068.htm
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Old July 3rd, 2014, 04:45 AM   #1082
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Originally Posted by billding View Post
No that one is still ok I didnt know it served a purpose, but you have been adding unecessary photos of 747-8 here for no rhyme or reason other than wasted space, consumption of bandwidth?

To the poster who said I'm irked by 744 pics added in a 748 thread, no I'm irked by all unecessary 748 pics in here too from a.net and jp.net serving only to beautify the thread and nothing more.

And you do the same at Iraqi aviation thread people are just being polite by not telling you off.

Its highly recommended you show respect to people here and not waste bandwidth, space and time with this.

I recommend you keep away from B787, B777, Antonov, A380, A320, B737 discussion threads if "bandwidth" is your concern.

Seems to me you are the only one complaining here.

Iraqi Aviation, not much appears to be happening within the discussion so if anything my posts keep it alive.
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Old July 3rd, 2014, 12:45 PM   #1083
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Oh yeah right as if they craving for it to be kept active with pics that can be seen at the public photo sites, do us a favour and stop posting there, why did start poping in there, to date you have not posted anything of worth, no questions, no discussions expect pics that everyone has access too.

Not surprised you have invaded all the other threads.
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Old July 4th, 2014, 12:32 PM   #1084
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Personally I appreciate EK413's images, especially in the Iraqi thread. He posts the best photos, so I don't have to go searching around and whatever.

Photos also often spark discussions.
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Old July 5th, 2014, 03:13 PM   #1085
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Hello gents, I have a question for those who had been to a 748 flight before.
There is an option to fly to RTM via HKG-FRA-MUC, which is obviously too long a flight than say HKG-LHR with A380. I just thought it may be a good idea to opt for LH's 748 just for fun. Unfortunately, I think none of the existing 744/748s has any Y-class on its upper deck, which an 380 offers.
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Old July 6th, 2014, 09:50 AM   #1086
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The upperdeck is all business on the 747-8 and First on their 747-400s.

From all the major airlines I believe only EVA Air still has Y-class on the upperdeck,
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Old July 6th, 2014, 08:01 PM   #1087
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Air France does as well, and there has been talk of Delta converting their 744s to economy on the upper deck since the reverse herringbone layout only manages to get 14 business class seats upstairs.
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Old July 7th, 2014, 08:51 AM   #1088
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aleksandar_s View Post
Personally I appreciate EK413's images, especially in the Iraqi thread. He posts the best photos, so I don't have to go searching around and whatever.

Photos also often spark discussions.
I too enjoy rare pics at Iraqi forum from native photographers that wont make it to those sites due to low quality, and yes those pics can lead to comments and discussions but going to iraq av thread to see pics from a.net and jp.net, I dont know what to say, yes the first painted aircraft pics were understandable, by the way hes now also posting at Iranian airlines thread.

Ok if you are posting pics why not from less popular sites which have rare pics at times, why the popular ones that everyone goes to, are you an a.net tout? if you have health issues that keep you free of other occupation and are doing this then please forgive me, I sincerely apologise and wish you good, because there have been such cases and it may mean the world to the affected what they do but can annoy others who are unaware.
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Old July 7th, 2014, 10:58 PM   #1089
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Severiano View Post
The 747 is declining in popularity, and I can objectively say that the A380 is a better plane, and made for the 21st century. But the 747 is a beauty. Especially the 747-8. Definitely still the most elegant passenger plane out there.
Losing popularity concerning orders, perhaps; Losing popularity among travelers, no. The 747 series has been one of the safest aircraft series, and it really all comes down to reliability. Many I have spoken with would rather fly on the 747-4/8 than the A380, and Airbus' relying on so much automation is one cause.
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Old July 8th, 2014, 12:04 AM   #1090
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a380's have wider seats and a quieter cabin, things most passengers care more than safety records, which thus far the a380 has had no fatal or otherwise serious incidents, the 747 has had 52 hull losses, most were pilot error or terrorism but a number of cases were from metal fatigue, engine failure and fuel tank issues. I'm certainly not calling it an unsafe plane, but it's not any safer than a380s, 777s etc. 747's may be better looking planes (the a380 is about as bulky and poorly proportioned as they could have made it), may have more history. But I would rather fly on an a380 from a comfort standpoint and airlines would rather fly them from an economics standpoint, which is the only factor that really matters. If the 747 has a future it's as a freighter and niche VIP transport.
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Old July 8th, 2014, 12:16 AM   #1091
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benn View Post
a380's have wider seats and a quieter cabin, things most passengers care more than safety records, which thus far the a380 has had no fatal or otherwise serious incidents, the 747 has had 52 hull losses, most were pilot error or terrorism but a number of cases were from metal fatigue, engine failure and fuel tank issues. I'm certainly not calling it an unsafe plane, but it's not any safer than a380s, 777s etc. 747's may be better looking planes (the a380 is about as bulky and poorly proportioned as they could have made it), may have more history. But I would rather fly on an a380 from a comfort standpoint and airlines would rather fly them from an economics standpoint, which is the only factor that really matters. If the 747 has a future it's as a freighter and niche VIP transport.
I actually think that the a380 could use a major overhaul with major updates.

and a "turn off" for future sale would be the long waiting list for a 380. If a company wants a large capacity plane ....the 747-8i is the next best option
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Old July 8th, 2014, 12:58 AM   #1092
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Hopefully GA Being the 2000th that Order The Jumbo's 8
So GA can be a good for future Hajj and GA not need to Lease The Agging Jumbo Jet
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Old July 8th, 2014, 01:20 AM   #1093
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffalomatt1027 View Post
I actually think that the a380 could use a major overhaul with major updates.

and a "turn off" for future sale would be the long waiting list for a 380. If a company wants a large capacity plane ....the 747-8i is the next best option
In some ways yes, although the a380 is quite a bit bigger and for high demand routes in service to airports with limited slots it's quite a bit more appealing 747-8i (not to mention it's better per seat operating costs). If a somewhat smaller plane is acceptable, then 777w/777-9s are going to be the go to aircraft of choice. The total of 35 747-8i's ordered by commercial airlines should tell you everything you need to know.
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Old July 8th, 2014, 05:36 AM   #1094
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benn View Post
In some ways yes, although the a380 is quite a bit bigger and for high demand routes in service to airports with limited slots it's quite a bit more appealing 747-8i (not to mention it's better per seat operating costs). If a somewhat smaller plane is acceptable, then 777w/777-9s are going to be the go to aircraft of choice. The total of 35 747-8i's ordered by commercial airlines should tell you everything you need to know.
you have to remember that the 747-8i is behind release wise vs the A380. the 8i needed the 787 technology before the 8i was contemplated.

and technologically speaking, the 8i has a lot more benefits then the a380

lighter
new wing design
new engines

The only real drawback is the capacity differences. I have read that the 8i has better fuel efficiency then the A380. I forgot where the article is on this message board, look further back in the a380 page or this 8i page.
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Old July 8th, 2014, 06:23 AM   #1095
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The one number that airlines are going to look at ahead of all others is the per set operating costs for an airframe, and the a380's are substantially lower. If 747-8 were a more effecient plane operate more airlines would be ordering it. Word on the street is Lufthansa is underwhelmed with the economics of the plane and only three other airlines have placed very small orders.
I know outside of the Emirates order the a380 sales have been kind of sluggish, but its actually being put into service by a fairly large number of carriers, with generally favorable reviews and will turn a profit. The 747-8i was DOA, a wishful plan to keep a design in production longer than is economically viable. The VLA market is a niche market to start with, and unless Boeing were in a mood to really try and outdo the a380 any further attempts to modernize the 747 were bound to be futile. Boeing is rightly focusing their energies into making the largest, most efficient twinjet in the world, which has always been a good segment to dominate and I would expect 777-9 sales to continue to be very strong.
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Old July 8th, 2014, 11:31 AM   #1096
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benn View Post
The one number that airlines are going to look at ahead of all others is the per set operating costs for an airframe, and the a380's are substantially lower. If 747-8 were a more effecient plane operate more airlines would be ordering it. Word on the street is Lufthansa is underwhelmed with the economics of the plane and only three other airlines have placed very small orders.
That's odd, since everything that most everyone has seen points to the fact that Lufthansa is very happy with the 747-8, especially in terms of revenue compared to the 747-400.

Compared to the 380, they have stated that unit costs are slightly in favor of the 380, however that was before the 747-8 PIP. To be fair, the 380 has undergone some improvements since then as well, so who knows what the actual numbers are, however they are most likely very close.

That leaves trip costs, and in terms of that, the 747-8 is clearly well ahead. So that means it really boils down to how much LH can actually fill the planes, and what percentage of it is actually premium traffic.

From what has been passed along anecdotally, and what one can observe independently, it looks like LH is quite happy with the 747-8 and that they have found a good way to utilize it.
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Old July 8th, 2014, 12:22 PM   #1097
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Originally Posted by gennadius View Post
I always wondered about this. When they talk about improvements to the airframe like removing weight and increasing the payload (MTOW), can those be applied to earlier frames as well? Like something that can be done as part of maintenance, or that they can have Boeing do retroactively?

Or does it really depend more on the nature of the weight being taken out? What about with the MTOW increases, those are generally done after a review of existing data as opposed to something having to be added in, correct?

Thanks!
Usually weight changes in the MEW cannot be retrofitted to older airframes. We're talking about structural changes, think about the wing box etc.

Airlines however can install the engine PIP and software updates during maintenance, but that won't improve the payload capabilities. Thanks to the weight reduction program, the new build freighters have a maximum structural payload of 139 tons, versus 134 tons for the early builds. Therefore a new build 747-8F is significant better than the older ones as it can haul 5 tons more cargo over the same range (and yes, 5 tons additional freight is a significant figure).
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Old July 8th, 2014, 12:44 PM   #1098
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For a big guy like me Boeing 747s are not an option. The seats are pretty small and when seated on the center it feels like I'm tortured. But this plane was so smooth and I feel so safe.
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Old July 8th, 2014, 09:16 PM   #1099
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That's odd, since everything that most everyone has seen points to the fact that Lufthansa is very happy with the 747-8, especially in terms of revenue compared to the 747-400.

Compared to the 380, they have stated that unit costs are slightly in favor of the 380, however that was before the 747-8 PIP. To be fair, the 380 has undergone some improvements since then as well, so who knows what the actual numbers are, however they are most likely very close.

That leaves trip costs, and in terms of that, the 747-8 is clearly well ahead. So that means it really boils down to how much LH can actually fill the planes, and what percentage of it is actually premium traffic.

From what has been passed along anecdotally, and what one can observe independently, it looks like LH is quite happy with the 747-8 and that they have found a good way to utilize it.
I think the problem is are the charts people are looking at. If you look at a pro airbus or pro boeing website, they will say there plane is better.

Example: a380 chart i saw, used FLAWED 747 statistics to help make the A380 look better or more efficient.

So who REALLY knows what is what.

http://travel.cnn.com/explorations/l...h-match-152563
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Old July 8th, 2014, 09:21 PM   #1100
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that's normally rather not depending on the aircraft type but only on which seats the airline fits into its planes. 747 with most airlines is rather comfortable in Y especially compared to 10-abreast seating on a 777 (what EK and unfortunately a growing number of other airlines do).
As much as I like the A380 (mainly just for its size), nothing beats the grace of the 747. The -400 is already a very beautiful plane, but the -8I even beats this. So sad that its time is near over. Don't believe we will see too many additional customers for the 8I. Really sad about that. At least I can see it several times a day for the next years (Lufthansa currently, Air China in future most probably too, maybe even Korean Air when they don't use the A380 again to FRA).
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