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Old July 9th, 2014, 04:40 AM   #1101
ddes
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Actually, from a financial standpoint, I don't see why Korean Air and Air China need the 747-8I. KE already has the 77W and A380 and in their configuration, will see the 747-8I more or less with the same number of seats. Air China's 747-8I will see only a marginal increase of seats from their 77W. Of course, I understand that there's a political aspect, too. KAI builds components for 747-8I while China orders pretty much every type from Airbus and Boeing for trade reasons.
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Old July 9th, 2014, 07:14 AM   #1102
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I've read in Twitter that Air China will be deploying their first B748s to LAX.
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Old July 9th, 2014, 10:32 AM   #1103
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Quote:
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A380 is a better plane, and made for the 21st century.
A380 is definitely bigger and newer plane. But better? I'm doubtful about that.

The reason behind Boeing 747 declining popularity (and actually A380's lagging sales) is airline's preference to the smaller type of airplanes which can fly longer distance at cheaper cost. And for airlines, filling the cabin of smaller airplanes is an easier task when compared to the jumbojet planes.
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Old July 9th, 2014, 10:57 AM   #1104
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The A380 and 747-8i are both commercial failures. Boeing 777-9X looks like it will continue the 777's colossal success. The Boeing 777 has put the Airbus A340 out of production, and makes A380 and 747-8i loss-making. The twinjet 777 has defeated every 4-engine rival.
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Old July 9th, 2014, 11:41 AM   #1105
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The A380 is a commercial failure? Don't you think it is a bit early to be pronouncing the A380 a failure? The plane could see 10 more years of production in it's current form, and easily 20 more years with upgraded engines.
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Old July 9th, 2014, 12:30 PM   #1106
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Quote:
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The Boeing 777 has put the Airbus A340 out of production
That's what Boeing marketing wants you to believe. In reality, there's never one single reason for an aircraft going out of production. In case of the A340, multiple reasons have contributed to its extinction: 1) ETOPS, 2) competition from the 777, 3) the range improvements of the A330 and 4) high fuel prices.
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Old July 9th, 2014, 02:55 PM   #1107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Langur View Post
The A380 and 747-8i are both commercial failures. Boeing 777-9X looks like it will continue the 777's colossal success. The Boeing 777 has put the Airbus A340 out of production, and makes A380 and 747-8i loss-making. The twinjet 777 has defeated every 4-engine rival.
Say again? Failure? Please try explain that to EK...
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Old July 10th, 2014, 04:55 AM   #1108
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Quote:
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The Boeing 777 has put the Airbus A340 out of production
Not quite a right statement.
I would say the improved version of A330 does also contribute the demise of A340.
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Old July 10th, 2014, 05:19 AM   #1109
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Really it is to early to count the 748 or A380 failures. The A380 has had a headstart for sales for sure, but when it comes down to it within the next 10 years price will be the decision maker for airlines and many I think will chose the 748. You get a more up-to-date, reliable, fuel-efficient, and beautiful plane for a cheaper cost.
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Old July 10th, 2014, 04:34 PM   #1110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aleksandar_s View Post
The A380 is a commercial failure? Don't you think it is a bit early to be pronouncing the A380 a failure? The plane could see 10 more years of production in it's current form, and easily 20 more years with upgraded engines.
To be fair ....Emirates has really saved the A380 program from falling on its ass. The 747 series has been successful for YEARSSSSS.

the 777x will ultimately kill off the 747 but that going to happen maybe 20 years from now.
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Old July 11th, 2014, 12:35 PM   #1111
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Old July 11th, 2014, 02:21 PM   #1112
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All it takes is a company like EK to make a significant order, and Queen is back in business.
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Old July 11th, 2014, 02:44 PM   #1113
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All it takes is a company like EK to make a significant order, and Queen is back in business.
The problem is which company?
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Old July 11th, 2014, 06:32 PM   #1114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddes View Post
The problem is which company?
It will be an American airline that orders the batch that will bring the 748 ahead. Currently no American airline have ordered the 748. I would put my money on Delta to be the one.
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Last edited by Airman Kris™; July 12th, 2014 at 08:49 PM.
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Old July 11th, 2014, 08:24 PM   #1115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airman Kris™ View Post
It will be an American airline that orders the batch that will bring the 748 ahead. Currently no American airline has or have ordered the 748. I would put my money on Delta to be the one.
Emirates also ...... they will buy a couple 747-8i to piss off Airbus to force them to build a newer / updated a380 model.
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Old July 12th, 2014, 12:19 AM   #1116
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I also think as long as Boeing give EK what they want regarding range, layout, and payload they will find a way to agree on a price, and slots. The airframe already has the new GE engines so it's a win win for both companies.

The carrot with the 748 is EK doesn't have to lose 28 seats for crew rest area's in the cabin because they can fit it above the ceiling, so in reality the ULR version would be very close in seating capacity as the A380. The 748 also provides more cargo volume which is the SJ's weak spot with EK, that's why they like to mix it with the 77W on certain routes.

I'm sure EK will also purchase the 787-10 in a package deal, plus additional orders for the 77X program.

So we basically know what to expect at the next DAS 2015.

The big loser here is Airbus, they dragged they're feet with the A350 program when it came to EK so they went to Boeing and got exactly what they were looking for. The 77X program would of been a lot harder for Boeing to conceive with out the three amigo order. Now they will make the same mistake again with EK regarding a A380 NEO variant if they don't get they're act together. The 747 could in reality would of been a dead duck, but if EK join the party it will be around for a while longer. Same goes with the 787-10 order, they did the economics on short haul/lower capacity routes, and it's a no brainer it's a better money making machine then the A359.

Last edited by noir-dresses; July 12th, 2014 at 12:32 AM.
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Old July 12th, 2014, 02:13 AM   #1117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airman Kris™ View Post
It will be an American airline that orders the batch that will bring the 748 ahead. Currently no American airline has or have ordered the 748. I would put my money on Delta to be the one.
I'd bet dollars for cents that Delta doesn't order either 747-8I's (or a380s for that matter). The only way it seems feasible is if they got a massive discount from Boeing. Knowing Delta, I would guess they will replace the 747-400s with 777-300ers near the end of production so the can be gotten cheaply. If not perhaps the 777-9 or a350-1000, but they haven't been one to go for a new type in recent years. United have already ordered a350-1000s to replace their 744 fleet and American has never shown much interest in VLAs, so I would be surprised if they fly anything much bigger than their 77Ws going forward. If Northwest were still an airline, they might have, but it would have been doubtful there too. Once the 777-9 comes online the 747-8i will be dead (besides VIP configured planes potentially), the 747-8F should stay in production for a good while as the 747 is the only capable, efficient large freighter in production.
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Last edited by Benn; July 12th, 2014 at 02:19 AM.
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Old July 12th, 2014, 02:22 AM   #1118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffalomatt1027 View Post
Emirates also ...... they will buy a couple 747-8i to piss off Airbus to force them to build a newer / updated a380 model.
This is an interesting theory, put in an order for 10 or so airframes and see if a freshly updated a380 plan doesn't show up in short order. It does sound a lot like something Tim Clark would do.
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Old July 12th, 2014, 04:19 AM   #1119
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Quote:
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Emirates also ...... they will buy a couple 747-8i to piss off Airbus to force them to build a newer / updated a380 model.
Boeing missed the boat for an Emirates order. Back then, Boeing was deliberating between two versions of the 747-8: a slight extension over the 744 with longer range, and a longer plane with shorter range. LH wanted the latter, EK wanted the former.

That's a terrible way of doing business, btw.
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Old July 12th, 2014, 08:52 PM   #1120
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Quote:
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I'd bet dollars for cents that Delta doesn't order either 747-8I's (or a380s for that matter). The only way it seems feasible is if they got a massive discount from Boeing. Knowing Delta, I would guess they will replace the 747-400s with 777-300ers near the end of production so the can be gotten cheaply. If not perhaps the 777-9 or a350-1000, but they haven't been one to go for a new type in recent years. United have already ordered a350-1000s to replace their 744 fleet and American has never shown much interest in VLAs, so I would be surprised if they fly anything much bigger than their 77Ws going forward. If Northwest were still an airline, they might have, but it would have been doubtful there too. Once the 777-9 comes online the 747-8i will be dead (besides VIP configured planes potentially), the 747-8F should stay in production for a good while as the 747 is the only capable, efficient large freighter in production.
Boeing will give that discount I am sure. I do not see them wanting to keep the orders short for just freighter use. Giving Delta a discount on maybe just 2 air-frames, which I think is all they need, could give the 748 that boost around the world.
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