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Old November 2nd, 2014, 03:07 PM   #1261
Deadeye Reloaded
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffalomatt1027 View Post
The Boeing 747 plane as a whole has outsold a380.

I tell you a secret now: The A380 was introduced 35 years after the 747.

The only reasonable comparison one can make is this one:

A380:...318
747-8I:...51

And that´s a smashing vicotry for the A380!
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Old November 2nd, 2014, 03:45 PM   #1262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadeye Reloaded View Post

I tell you a secret now: The A380 was introduced 35 years after the 747.

The only reasonable comparison one can make is this one:

A380:...318
747-8I:...51

And that´s a smashing vicotry for the A380!
Right, so out of the 1,536 747s built. We can only count 51? So the other ones do exists or disappeared?

Boeing actually knew going into the 747-8i program it wasnt going to do well. With the 787 program and the new 777x program. They knew long ago (when planning these planes) that 2 engine / fuel efficient planes are the way of the future.

anyways how are a380 sales going? the answer: Not good and it may bankrupt the company.
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Old November 2nd, 2014, 04:13 PM   #1263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffalomatt1027 View Post
Boeing actually knew going into the 747-8i program it wasnt going to do well. With the 787 program and the new 777x program. They knew long ago (when planning these planes) that 2 engine / fuel efficient planes are the way of the future.
An amazing business logic that you suggest, if it were true: "let's commit engineering resources to something we know will flop".
These are the facts:
The 747-8i was launched in 2005 (http://boeing.mediaroom.com/2005-11-...w-747-8-Family) and the 777-8x and 9x were authorized to offer to customers in May 2013.
So, Boeing only decided eight years after launching the 747-8i that planning and offering a similar passenger capacity with a twin-engined aircraft was the way forward. Had they "known long ago", why did they bother with the 747-8 at all?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffalomatt1027 View Post
anyways how are a380 sales going? the answer: Not good
Undisputed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffalomatt1027 View Post
and it may bankrupt the company.
For this I'd like to see proof with facts and figures.
Hint: Airbus is so much "almost bankrupt" that they're building a new factory in Mobile, AL to increase the production rate of their aircraft.
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Old November 2nd, 2014, 08:14 PM   #1264
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All right... as part of my continuing improvements to make the Airports and Aviation forum much better and more integrated, I will be renaming the "747-8I" thread to simply become the "Boeing 747 Discussion" so that we can discuss on an even broader spectrum of aircraft models, including the ever-popular 747-400 (which is slowly being retired), the -300 (which I suspect a few carriers still use them), the -100 and -200 (mostly retired), and the SP (in which Iran Air still operates one of them). Sounds good?
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Old November 2nd, 2014, 09:23 PM   #1265
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B747 VS A380

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadeye Reloaded View Post

I tell you a secret now: The A380 was introduced 35 years after the 747.

The only reasonable comparison one can make is this one:

A380:...318
747-8I:...51

And that´s a smashing vicotry for the A380!
B747 family outsold A380 with just 318 orders only and B747 Family starting -100, -200, SP, -300, -400, and -800 all together 1500 and more including cargo variant so B747 family out sold A380
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Old November 3rd, 2014, 12:19 AM   #1266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffalomatt1027 View Post
Right, so out of the 1,536 747s built. We can only count 51? So the other ones do exists or disappeared?

Finally you got it!
You can count only the 51 747-8I when you compare the sale numbers with the A380. Simple as that.

In other words: You can only compare the sale numbers from the years when both airplanes were on offer.

Or maybe you could tell us why the A380 performed so terribly bad in the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s?!

Please enlighten us.



Quote:
Originally Posted by patel2897 View Post
B747 family outsold A380 with just 318 orders only and B747 Family starting -100, -200, SP, -300, -400, and -800 all together 1500 and more including cargo variant so B747 family out sold A380

You need a lesson in logical thinking, too.

I will try to explain it to you in the most simple words: You can´t count the sale numbers for the 747 for the years in which the A380 didn´t even exist.

That´s the same like claiming that the Mercedes-Benz S-class outsold the Tesla S while not taking into account that the Mercedes is being produced since over 30 years now while the Tesla S is in production for only some years.
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Old November 3rd, 2014, 12:24 AM   #1267
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And btw, I hope that the consolidated thread for all B747 types will make all of us happy, especially that the B744 remains popular.
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Old November 3rd, 2014, 03:09 AM   #1268
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British Airways B747-400 (reg. G-BNLG) -- my image from SFO


DSC06016 by anthonynachor, on Flickr
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Old November 3rd, 2014, 06:24 AM   #1269
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B747 Family

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadeye Reloaded View Post








You need a lesson in logical thinking, too.

I will try to explain it to you in the most simple words: You can´t count the sale numbers for the 747 for the years in which the A380 didn´t even exist.

That´s the same like claiming that the Mercedes-Benz S-class outsold the Tesla S while not taking into account that the Mercedes is being produced since over 30 years now while the Tesla S is in production for only some years.
I Know first flight was on February 9, 1969 and Joe sutter is called ''father of the B747'' and a380 was introduce in 2009 bu I am just saying that not many of the airline showed interest in A380 just big Airline name like Emirates Lufthansa Qatar and so on ... I am Big Fan Of B747's The B747 is the real Queen Of The Skies

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Old November 3rd, 2014, 08:08 PM   #1270
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Here's an airline that used the B747s for a good chunk of its career...

Japan Asia Airways B747-300, "Yokoso! Japan" (reg. JA8185) -- now retired, reconsolidated with Japan Airlines

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Old November 4th, 2014, 06:59 AM   #1271
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airport Addict View Post
An amazing business logic that you suggest, if it were true: "let's commit engineering resources to something we know will flop".
These are the facts:
The 747-8i was launched in 2005 (http://boeing.mediaroom.com/2005-11-...w-747-8-Family) and the 777-8x and 9x were authorized to offer to customers in May 2013.
So, Boeing only decided eight years after launching the 747-8i that planning and offering a similar passenger capacity with a twin-engined aircraft was the way forward. Had they "known long ago", why did they bother with the 747-8 at all?


Undisputed.

For this I'd like to see proof with facts and figures.
Hint: Airbus is so much "almost bankrupt" that they're building a new factory in Mobile, AL to increase the production rate of their aircraft.
If you read up articles about the 747-8i its best estimated that Boeing only spent 2 or 3 billion on the 8i and 8f. They can or already have there money back. Boeing barely had anything invested in it, thats chunk change in the aviation world.

Airbus / almost bankrupting the company with the a380: its been well known, go read up about it. Go use google or yahoo.
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Old November 4th, 2014, 11:02 AM   #1272
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Lufthansa D-ABYG at Los Angeles International
15th October 2014
Link: http://www.airliners.net/photo/Lufth...830/2533302/L/
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Old November 4th, 2014, 07:51 PM   #1273
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The 1000th Queen

[IMG]http://i60.************/1624gp5.jpg[/IMG]
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Old November 4th, 2014, 08:37 PM   #1274
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She is now with Southern Air as N400SA. 21 years old and still going strong:
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Old November 4th, 2014, 09:39 PM   #1275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffalomatt1027 View Post
If you read up articles about the 747-8i its best estimated that Boeing only spent 2 or 3 billion on the 8i and 8f.
Obviously you didn't do what you are suggesting to me, otherwise, if you really had read about the 747-8i and -8f, you would have found out that the costs were $ 4 billion. Furthermore, the break-even point as projected by Boeing itself is at 350 frames for both variants. So, your assertion that
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffalomatt1027 View Post
They can or already have there money back.
depends on further orders coming in. At the moment the orders stand at 118, so there's a lot more selling to do before they do get it back.
Here are some sources for you:
http://seattletimes.com/html/busines..._boeing07.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_...and_deliveries
http://online.wsj.com/articles/SB100...50774194660476

Earlier you also asserted that the A 380 "may bankrupt" the company (your post # 1110 in this thread), as if that was imminent or probable. Now
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffalomatt1027 View Post
Airbus / almost bankrupting the company with the a380: its been well known,
you seem to say it had almost happened in the past.
Whichever suits you, it's certainly "well documented" that Airbus went through some restructuring to contain the losses arising from the delays on the A 380 program. Bankruptcy was never mentioned; so
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffalomatt1027 View Post
go read up about it. Go use google or yahoo.
The topic of this thread is the 747 - it used to be a thread about the 747-8 only;
both it and the A 380 are aircraft whose sales didn't work out as planned because the aviation market changed to airlines offering more connections directly by aircraft with under 400 seats. I find it fascinating to watch the airline industry as a whole evolve; if you to too, again
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffalomatt1027 View Post
go read up about it. Go use google or yahoo.
Only Lufthansa has ordered the 380 and the 747-8i - and the 777-9x for the future - and since they seem to get as much flying out of their aircraft as possible before retiring them, we'll be able to see the 747-8 for many years to come.
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Old November 5th, 2014, 08:27 PM   #1276
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airport Addict View Post
Obviously you didn't do what you are suggesting to me, otherwise, if you really had read about the 747-8i and -8f, you would have found out that the costs were $ 4 billion. Furthermore, the break-even point as projected by Boeing itself is at 350 frames for both variants. So, your assertion that

depends on further orders coming in. At the moment the orders stand at 118, so there's a lot more selling to do before they do get it back.
Here are some sources for you:
http://seattletimes.com/html/busines..._boeing07.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_...and_deliveries
http://online.wsj.com/articles/SB100...50774194660476

Earlier you also asserted that the A 380 "may bankrupt" the company (your post # 1110 in this thread), as if that was imminent or probable. Now
you seem to say it had almost happened in the past.
Whichever suits you, it's certainly "well documented" that Airbus went through some restructuring to contain the losses arising from the delays on the A 380 program. Bankruptcy was never mentioned; so


The topic of this thread is the 747 - it used to be a thread about the 747-8 only;
both it and the A 380 are aircraft whose sales didn't work out as planned because the aviation market changed to airlines offering more connections directly by aircraft with under 400 seats. I find it fascinating to watch the airline industry as a whole evolve; if you to too, again


Only Lufthansa has ordered the 380 and the 747-8i - and the 777-9x for the future - and since they seem to get as much flying out of their aircraft as possible before retiring them, we'll be able to see the 747-8 for many years to come.
You are arguing just to argue.

example: according to you boeing spend 4 billion and I said 2 or 3 billion. (depending on what article you read) Honestly, in the aviation world. That kind of money is chunk change. That is not a huge commitment.

Airbus "restructuring" is a problem. They put there company on the line by investing in a plane like the a380. Youtube the CNN or the documentary talking about it.

a380 vs 8i: Both planes didnt workout due to having 4 engines. 4 engine planes eat up more gas then 2 engine planes.

Plus airlines have problems filling planes that big. Most 380 airline owners are having issues with that.
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Old November 6th, 2014, 12:40 AM   #1277
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Cathay Pacific B747-400 (reg. B-HKU)

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Old November 6th, 2014, 03:33 AM   #1278
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The sole Malaysia Airlines B747-4H6 that was reactivated out of retirement as a standby aircraft.
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Old November 6th, 2014, 05:06 AM   #1279
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Originally Posted by ZNaseer View Post


The sole Malaysia Airlines B747-4H6 that was reactivated out of retirement as a standby aircraft.
Im surprised that more airlines dont do what British airways is doing. They are gutting there old 747s and remodeling / updating them to make them more profitable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_yHtfGH0nI
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Old November 6th, 2014, 07:21 AM   #1280
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Qantas B747-400ER (reg. VH-OEJ) -- with Central Sydney in the background

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