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Old November 8th, 2009, 06:27 AM   #1
Backstrom
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Seattle Pedestrian and Biking Thread

I thought I'd start a thread for issues related to walkability, pedestrian traffic, biking, and such. Stuff like the Pedestrian Master Plan, sidewalk improvements, and anything else that makes Seattle a good place to walk and bike.
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Old November 8th, 2009, 06:30 AM   #2
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I want to start off with DSA's pedestrian count report. I don't know exactly when they released this, but it's really interesting:

http://www.downtownseattle.com/conte...s/PedCount.cfm

What's most important is the -24% change in the West Edge. I think that's the indisputable impact of WaMu's collapse. I'm also really surprised by Belltown's losses and the huge Uptown surge.
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Old November 8th, 2009, 05:52 PM   #3
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Thanks for created this thread!

Interesting info! I wonder how do they count the pedestrian on sidewalks at different parts of downtown Seattle area? There are few things that sounds too low; for example Retail Core area have less than 8,000 pedestrians daily. My understanding that area is Seattle's busiest and most crowded area and it should be more than 8,000 pedestrian daily.
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Old November 9th, 2009, 12:07 AM   #4
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Hand counting. This is how their methodology:

Quote:
Data are collected manually by the Business Development & Market Research group using hand counters. Fourteen representative and dispersed locations throughout Center City Seattle are included in the sample. The data are collected in the course of a single day, in three shifts: morning rush (7:30am to 9:00am), lunch time (11:30am to 1:00pm) and evening rush (4:00pm to 5:30pm).
So there are a lot extraneous factors to account for.
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Old November 10th, 2009, 04:19 AM   #5
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I wouldn't discount it entirely. Aggregate data usually tends to be reliable. I'm almost certain special events are accounted for.

What you can't dispute are the financial district/west edge numbers. I've noticed it myself-- pedestrian traffic is way down since WaMu failed.
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Old November 10th, 2009, 04:20 AM   #6
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Hand counting? I won't trust that source.
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Old November 10th, 2009, 04:22 AM   #7
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I wouldn't discount it entirely. Aggregate data usually tends to be reliable. I'm almost certain special events are accounted for.

What you can't dispute are the financial district/west edge numbers. I've noticed it myself-- pedestrian traffic is way down since WaMu failed.
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Old November 10th, 2009, 04:27 AM   #8
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I noticed that pedestrian traffic went down dramatically since WAMU collapsed also. It should rebound a bit when Russell Investment move in.

I think they can do different way to count pedestrian traffic like they count vehicles pass daily by put the "bump" (I don't know what they called it) on it and allow vehicles go over it. They can put "bump" on the sidewalks to count it. People possibly won't even notice it since it looks like rug and will walk on it.
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Old August 16th, 2010, 09:44 PM   #9
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Article about a major pedestrian study in the NY Times. Thought people on here might find it interesting. pdf report that the article is based on.
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Old August 17th, 2010, 03:32 PM   #10
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I just went by 1st Ave and University (right in front of Harbor Steps) and it looks like there is white spray paint indicating a diagonal crosswalks for a "walk-all-ways" intersection. I guess this intersection is just like 1st and Cherry but the sign that says it's OK for southbound vehicles to turn left on red is then probably going away. That sign is rarely seen and understood by drivers as it's pretty small and seems odd to run a red light. Because these are T-intersections with outbound one-way streets leading from them it's not too bad of a deal but at the same time there's not much value to peds since once you cross the avenue there's no other street to cross.

Just found this page that mentions the above walk-all-ways project and many more pedestrian projects if you haven't seen it: http://walkbikeride.seattle.gov/early-implementation/
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Old August 17th, 2010, 05:40 PM   #11
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They'd better keep the N-S walk light when the traffic is green. I'll jaywalk anyway but if they don't it'll piss me off.
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Old August 17th, 2010, 06:27 PM   #12
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The last time I was at 1st & Cherry after the all-way walk was implemented, the ped signal on the north-south crosswalk (east side of intersection) displayed walk only during the all-way walk phase. Prior to the all-way walk, left turns were permitted on red (they aren't now).
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Old August 17th, 2010, 07:22 PM   #13
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Yeah, mhays I was starting to add a note about how I'm going to jaywalk anyways but as Vashon says I'd expect that you're not supposed to walk when traffic is moving north-south. This will help traffic turn right onto University and make it more clear for left-turn drivers to know when they can turn.
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Old August 18th, 2010, 12:00 AM   #14
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So in other words, it's a step backward for pedestrians.

It's no improvement crossing First. And it's probably a lower percentage of the time north-south.

This looks like it's about traffic flow. This city is run by hypocrites.
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Old August 18th, 2010, 02:20 AM   #15
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Hi everybody this is my first comment here in this website and I found this thread is very interesting, Seattle is my favorite city and I love everything going on there anyway I found this link it has a video about pedestrian crossing in Seattle it's a brilliant idea I hope they make all of Seattle's streets like it

http://brokensidewalk.com/2009/03/19...ville-england/
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Old August 18th, 2010, 04:17 AM   #16
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England knows how to do it. That crosswalk is pretty typical there.
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Old August 18th, 2010, 08:54 AM   #17
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It seems like the all-way crosses are a win-win, as they make it a little bit quicker to cross if you're going diagonally, while at the same time making traffic flow better. Although I don't like cars, if you can make something better for pedestrians and traffic flow, then I think they should go for it.
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Old August 18th, 2010, 02:05 PM   #18
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except they're generally not better for peds in terms of seconds-of-walk per cycle and when I approach a traditionally signalled intersection as a ped at worst I'm a few seconds away from walking one direction of the other whereas with a walk-all-ways intersection I could be minutes away from getting a green. The 1st Ave WAW's aren't too bad because they're T-intersections where peds are about 1/2 the cycle time. At the California/Alaska junction peds get green roughly 1/5 of the time.

Overall definitely a benefit to traffic but I'd say not for peds. As said before, jaywalking on 1st across Cherry or University isn't too bad. Jay-walking at Pike is a little less safe with the higher speed large radius curb that let's drivers whip around the corner at the last second.
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Old August 18th, 2010, 07:31 PM   #19
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Its only faster if the sign says walk. You'll be waiting through two cycles of car traffic even if you want to cross just one street. I'm not a fan of these as a ped. As a driver, though, I am!! This makes making a simple right turn much easier. I could see placement of this at 6th and Pine of great benefit!
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Old August 20th, 2010, 05:24 PM   #20
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The new signage and pavement markings for the "walk-all-ways" at 1st and University are now in use. There's really not a huge difference at this intersection from before since there's no dedicated left turn arrow for people turning up University. The funny thing is the signs that say "No turn on red" for drivers going south on 1st. If you didn't know it used to say "stop on red then left turn OK" it would be bizarre to see a special sign saying "No turn on red" for a left turn.
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