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Old April 6th, 2011, 05:27 AM   #601
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the investment view is, and can only be, present worth of future benefits. similarly, it must match (or be in line with) an investors investment objectives.

with regards to potential for business, still am unsure what it is (i.e. what vicurban are trying to sell). private business have had every opportunity in the past to go there (sites are there, deals could have been done, rent is cheap etc etc) but they have decided not to, instead opting for mount waverley, box hill, notting hill, burwood & obviously cbd & inner-suburbs. in other words, still cant see how the attraction of new trees in the street, new footpaths on lonsdale st, new street lights etc will drive demand for private business to move out there and have a dandenong address & hence office space supply be created. interesting times ahead. sure over time it will evolve, for it has too (quality of current improvements are shit & past their useful economic life so change will take place).
You will be surprised what a refresh of an area can do for business confidence. Add to that the substantial office projects under construction, and planned, for which things change again. Sometimes it just takes small changes to change perceptions.
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Old April 6th, 2011, 08:06 AM   #602
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lol. dude, dandy is still dandy, no matter how much u try to dress it, or sexy it, up
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Old April 6th, 2011, 08:43 AM   #603
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lol. dude, dandy is still dandy, no matter how much u try to dress it, or sexy it, up
A slightly short sighted, and ill-considered viewport IMHO.

Its at the heart of a growing region, with great transport links and services. In investment terms, that is a good deal. The bonus of having such works going on to change the visual appeal of the area is a great value add, along with the added demand for jobs that will exist in the area, and surrounding areas in the future. If Dandenong can gain a decent sized university campus at some point, for which there has been some talk of, that will add even greater potential to the investment value.

Many would have said the same about numerous areas in the past, having undesirable reputations, but they are now considered very wise investment decisions. Don't be so quick to write it off.
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Old April 6th, 2011, 08:53 AM   #604
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I remember when fitzroy and Collingwood were considered bad areas.
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Old April 6th, 2011, 09:03 AM   #605
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lol. dude, dandy is still dandy, no matter how much u try to dress it, or sexy it, up
I agree, it would take at least a generation to change peoples perception of Dandenong.
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Old April 6th, 2011, 11:25 AM   #606
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A slightly short sighted, and ill-considered viewport IMHO.

Its at the heart of a growing region, with great transport links and services. In investment terms, that is a good deal. The bonus of having such works going on to change the visual appeal of the area is a great value add, along with the added demand for jobs that will exist in the area, and surrounding areas in the future. If Dandenong can gain a decent sized university campus at some point, for which there has been some talk of, that will add even greater potential to the investment value.

Many would have said the same about numerous areas in the past, having undesirable reputations, but they are now considered very wise investment decisions. Don't be so quick to write it off.
can't see why i am short-sighted. i didn't create the discrimination in the marketplace. the market participants created it, didn't they? moreover, thought i asked a pretty simple and reasonable question in that: what is the selling pitch to a private business (office space users) to re-locate their? u still cant give me a logical answer. great transport links and services can't cut it, for they have hardly changed in 100 yrs. added demand for jobs? what are you talking about. last time i looked, dandy was (& still is) an industrial suburb. its a blue collar workforce. dandy with a decent sized uni, where the **** are u going? most of the kids cant get thru high school let alone get into or spell university. as far as investment value goes, c'mon mate, i know (& u know) that you have no grounding or expertise in this area, so why act you like you know what your talking about. u might sound knowledgeable to your mates in the pub or at the party, but its really embarrassing.


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I remember when fitzroy and Collingwood were considered bad areas.
yeah i do. have you forgotten that it took parts of fitzroy, collingwood/richmond etc circa 130yrs to turn around, and that they are all located just outside the centre of the marketplace.

isn't it amazing how things sound or seem when not portrayed in their true light?
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Old April 6th, 2011, 11:56 AM   #607
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20 to 30 years ago Collingwood was a dump. Port Melbourne and docklands was a dump 20 years ago. I honestly don't think you know what your talking about mate. Look at stkilda and williamstown, do l need to continue to give examples how 20 years can change an area.
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Old April 6th, 2011, 12:38 PM   #608
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20 to 30 years ago Collingwood was a dump. Port Melbourne and docklands was a dump 20 years ago. I honestly don't think you know what your talking about mate. Look at stkilda and williamstown, do l need to continue to give examples how 20 years can change an area.
dude, u obviously dont know much about melbourne, and property for that matter. the suburbs you have mentioned were always viewed as dumps. the housing supplied (that is the housing built at the beginning and much of which remains today) were for the lowest of all classes (the working class, or artisan class, of the time). these were the people who worked in the factories in and around the same suburb/s!!! you know, the people who sweated it out in shit conditions (as opposed to lovely office accommodation) and getting paid the lowest of all wages. why do you think they were built nearby the factories in these suburbs??? half of the housing stock is cottages (i.e. glorified farm houses). the cheap labour couldn't afford to travel so the rich (or owners of the factories) made sure they didn't have far to go to work, and so ensured housing was supplied nearby. there was no cars back then. they walked to work!!! the rich lived in camberwell, kew, hawthorn, toorak, sth yarra, brighton, carlton, where they still live. moreover, they lived in these areas because they could afford travel arrangements and also because they were elevated or close to sea breezes, meaning they were less likely to have to put up with the smell associated with sewerage flows (as well as other crap) into the gutter & yarra. melbourne's nickname was 'smellbourne' once upon time einstein!

so in saying & knowing that, it took circa 130 yrs for this to change. and it only changed because the migrants who migrated in the 50-60's lived in these areas (again the poorest of the poor) & over time made money working in the same factories and then decided to discard the old crap and move to suburbia in order to gain greater utility (i.e. an improvement in lifestyle - larger house/home, front & back yard, brand new improvements, etc etc).

yes, these suburbs are now in vogue, but only for the first time in their history! get it!

not bad for someone who doesn't know what they are talking about hey?

by the way, your property qualifications are.....?
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Old April 6th, 2011, 05:21 PM   #609
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huh? Are you just saying stuff you once learned...? How was most of that relevant?
Lol, 101, it seems you consider yourself a property guru... Unfortunately, you seem to be letting your ego get in the way of a rational conversation. Some people here have raised some very simple points that you cry and rant about, but never seem to address. Bizarre.
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Old April 6th, 2011, 05:45 PM   #610
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101, sorry to have bothered having a broader view on property investment, as it appears you are the king on this topic. The all knowing, wise voice of this forum. Ummm... tell him he's dreaming

Seems your hatred of the area is what blinds you about it's potential. Some very clear examples have been brought up here by a few people, but that doesn't seem enough for you.

Stop the BS typecasting an area for their intelligence, as it comes across bitter. An area doesn't dictate a persons intelligence, so don't let the truth get in the way of a good story.

I stand by my comments that dandenong is an area with a promising longer term outlook. If we all your took your viewpoint, we might as well give up on CAD proposals and build things only in 'smart' areas. Will that work for you?
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Old April 6th, 2011, 11:28 PM   #611
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The truth is simple. Look around almost every major city and you will see that their is other central hubs other then the city CBD. It's the way of the future to make these when a city gets to a certain size population. And in Melbourne we will have Ringwood, Footscray and Dandenong as these. The government has realized this and that is why these areas are changing. Have u been to Paramatta and seen this as an example of an outer city hub.
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Old April 7th, 2011, 01:40 AM   #612
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huh? Are you just saying stuff you once learned...? How was most of that relevant?
Lol, 101, it seems you consider yourself a property guru... Unfortunately, you seem to be letting your ego get in the way of a rational conversation. Some people here have raised some very simple points that you cry and rant about, but never seem to address. Bizarre.
lmao. compared to you, mahatma ghandi i am.

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Originally Posted by Melb_aviator View Post
101, sorry to have bothered having a broader view on property investment, as it appears you are the king on this topic. The all knowing, wise voice of this forum. Ummm... tell him he's dreaming

Seems your hatred of the area is what blinds you about it's potential. Some very clear examples have been brought up here by a few people, but that doesn't seem enough for you.

Stop the BS typecasting an area for their intelligence, as it comes across bitter. An area doesn't dictate a persons intelligence, so don't let the truth get in the way of a good story.

I stand by my comments that dandenong is an area with a promising longer term outlook. If we all your took your viewpoint, we might as well give up on CAD proposals and build things only in 'smart' areas. Will that work for you?
lmao. i cant help it if your property fundamentals are not sound. only here to help. so instead of the taking the tall poppy syndrome stance, why not tap into it & perhaps learn something?

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The truth is simple. Look around almost every major city and you will see that their is other central hubs other then the city CBD. It's the way of the future to make these when a city gets to a certain size population. And in Melbourne we will have Ringwood, Footscray and Dandenong as these. The government has realized this and that is why these areas are changing. Have u been to Paramatta and seen this as an example of an outer city hub.
finally, something (i.e. comment) of justice. parramatta very good example. without doubt, dandy will end up emanating/resembling this in time in my view.


for the record, i dont hate dandy. dandy is just that, dandy! where one decides to live is just as much subjective as it is a function of what one can afford (e.g. bruno grollo lives in thornbury). will res be built in dandy? of course it will!!! as it will be built in any other established suburb that has tired stock that needs rejuvenating. will office space be demanded in dandy by private business? in the short-term no. however, the more people that begin to live in the centre of dandy, the more they will begin to demand other goods and services, and then that need/want will be created. very simple. as for vicurban's role, still cant see why my & your tax payer dollars are being spent there by them. why isn't dandy municipal council paying for street upgrades??? what are they doing with all the rates and taxes they are collecting? moreover, the ******* stone for the footpaths is coming from ******* italy, then going to ******* china to be cut/shaped, and then being ******* sent here and installed! i get no benefit, and either do you if you dont live there. i want the state government to spend my & your tax money on creating a real PUBLIC TRANSPORT network for the good of all melburnians. the last time we as a state spent money on creating a real public transport network was 100 yrs ago. it has served us well up until now. dandy will evolve by artificial selection (i.e. the market will dictate and determine what gets built and what doesn't get built).
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Old April 7th, 2011, 01:45 AM   #613
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That's-a-spiceya meatball/rant.
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Old April 7th, 2011, 02:23 AM   #614
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what is the selling pitch to a private business (office space users) to re-locate their? u still cant give me a logical answer
the logical pitch is two fold.

1:
government is likely to send 1000 employees to Dandenong over the next few years. rumour is that VicRoads will send a large office there once it is shifted out of Kew (kew office contaqins abotu 1000 staff and the Burwood office has 400 - shifting Burwood to Dandneong and having the Kew call-centre shifted to Dandenong owuld give about 1000 staff right there). That office could be increased with the creation of a south-eastern general government office. potentially shift some employees from each CBD office out there for a south-east region or similar. Hell you could even just set up 100 desks there with access to 'head office' computers and staff from the south east could work 1 day a week there when they don't have meetings.

now that isn't a private business I know!! so...

2:
but 1000 government employees = lots of support services and businesses wanting to provide local support to those employees. Dandenong South industrial area also requires lots of support services for their businesses.

How many of htose factories will have in house legal/accounting/IT? Where are those white collar firms going to set up? Dandenong.

The first indicator of this Dandenong as 'hub' for Dandenong South is the Serviced apartments that went up at Arkana. apartments for all the fly in/fly out head office types from interstate/overseas wanting to loko at the new multi-million dollar factory their company just invested in.
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Old April 7th, 2011, 02:29 AM   #615
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I will say before I write anything else that I have no grounding in property and I don't pretend that I do.
The reason why places like Collingwood, Fitzroy, StKilda and others have been able to turn around in recent years is because they are close to the CBD. What do people have as an insentive to move to Dandenong at the moment? Close proximity to Cranbourne?
In all honesty Dandenong does not have much going for it, it is a long way from anywhere, it has a bad reputation, transport is not that great, etc... At least somewhere like Frankston has a nice location going for it, something Dandenong does not have. The only thing that can turn it around is by convincing business to move there and even then what insentive is there for business apart from cheaper rent?
It will take a very long time to make Dandenong a desirable location.
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Old April 7th, 2011, 02:34 AM   #616
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profitting from the Dandenong South Industrial area which already contributes something like 20% of all manufactured goods in Australia to the economy is a pretty big incentive for services businesses to locate an office in Dandenong.

Dandneong will take 20 years to become a 'Parramatta' of Melbourne. but that is still a more than reasonable expectation for Dandenong.
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Old April 7th, 2011, 02:46 AM   #617
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I will say before I write anything else that I have no grounding in property and I don't pretend that I do.
The reason why places like Collingwood, Fitzroy, StKilda and others have been able to turn around in recent years is because they are close to the CBD. What do people have as an insentive to move to Dandenong at the moment? Close proximity to Cranbourne?
In all honesty Dandenong does not have much going for it, it is a long way from anywhere, it has a bad reputation, transport is not that great, etc... At least somewhere like Frankston has a nice location going for it, something Dandenong does not have. The only thing that can turn it around is by convincing business to move there and even then what insentive is there for business apart from cheaper rent?
It will take a very long time to make Dandenong a desirable location.
Government intervention in any market (like JP's example: VicRoads moving there) will result in private money following suit. Where land values increase (the land value upon which the government houses its employees will increase), private capital will also seek to get in on the action.
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Old April 7th, 2011, 03:08 AM   #618
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lmao. i cant help it if your property fundamentals are not sound. only here to help. so instead of the taking the tall poppy syndrome stance, why not tap into it & perhaps learn something?
Learn something? From you? Wow, the comedy festival is calling you to be an act there. Damn thats funny

Your analysis of the 'fundamentals' leaves a lot to be desired.
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Old April 7th, 2011, 03:09 AM   #619
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Government intervention in any market (like JP's example: VicRoads moving there) will result in private money following suit. Where land values increase (the land value upon which the government houses its employees will increase), private capital will also seek to get in on the action.
Totally agree. It is a building block for future investment.
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Old April 7th, 2011, 04:57 AM   #620
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To property 101

Please don't complain about tax money being spent to create jobs in dandy.

where do u think all the events inner Melbourne get their money from. You think government did pay for docklands. Also when u build in the vicurban area u have to pay a percentage of land value and building value to vicurban to pay for the renovations. Please check facts before u comment!!!!!
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