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Old August 8th, 2015, 12:04 AM   #2241
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I agree, this is a unique period in history that the communist block iron curtain nations shared. It was a dark period, but we can't deny it, some of this socreal is very well done and PKIN is starting to fit into Warsaw. IF you ever go, check out the interior, amazing and all of the facilities, wow!
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Old August 8th, 2015, 12:50 PM   #2242
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Quote:
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(nobody would care if we demolish every commie residential)
Speak for yourself. Only for yourself.
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Old August 8th, 2015, 01:11 PM   #2243
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Old August 8th, 2015, 09:57 PM   #2244
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Speak for yourself. Only for yourself.
Well, you are right. I should speak for myself. But you have to agree that the majority of the population wouldn't care for them.
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Old August 9th, 2015, 05:33 AM   #2245
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Majority of population lives in them so I'm pretty sure they would
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Old August 9th, 2015, 11:25 AM   #2246
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Majority of population lives in them so I'm pretty sure they would
I live in one, too (altough Croatian were made out of brick, I think), and I wouldn't care if it was being demolished even though I grew up in it. If I had a choice between contemporary building and renovated prewar one, I wouldn't give a shit about this one. The problem is that post-communist countries are still "poor". People in our countries don't move to find another job when they'are tired of the present one. They find a job as soon as they're over with education, buy an apartment and stay there pretty much until they die. If a whole bunch of people were moving away every few years, of course they wouldn't spend money to buy an apartment in a poor quality building. But since that's not happening, they stay and live in the same place for 50 years. You can actually see the German example where dozens of commieblocks are being demolished because no one wants to live in them. They can choose. We can't.
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Old August 9th, 2015, 02:24 PM   #2247
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Quote:
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I live in one, too (altough Croatian were made out of brick, I think), and I wouldn't care if it was being demolished even though I grew up in it.
Probably you would be more concerned if you own a property in one
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Old August 9th, 2015, 08:56 PM   #2248
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Even before I became interested in socialist architecture, I would have been sad if my commieblock neighbourhood was demolished. Lots of memories.
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Old August 9th, 2015, 10:25 PM   #2249
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Probably you would be more concerned if you own a property in one
Well, we do own our apartment. I actually wouldn't care only if I get some sort of compensation. Of course I wouldn't just leave my apartment without money or another place to live. I don't hate commieblocks THAT much.
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Old August 9th, 2015, 10:29 PM   #2250
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You can still keep your memories without buildings. If a memory is that worth to you, you'll remember it no mather what happens. Also, you can create new memories in your new home. That's just how I look at it.
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Old August 10th, 2015, 05:03 PM   #2251
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Well, we do own our apartment. I actually wouldn't care only if I get some sort of compensation.
Now there's just a question, who will give you a compensation?

In case of 5-floor small commieblocks from 1960s - there is possibility that some investor would pay compensation (provided that everyone in the block agrees), dismantle the building, and build something anew, but in the case of such ant-hills like Novi Beograd*...

...I seriously doubt.

* Yes, I know you are from Croatia, not from Serbia, I didn't mean to insult you or something, just Novi Beograd is the only Corbusier-like hell in former Yugoslavia that comes to my mind
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Old August 10th, 2015, 06:15 PM   #2252
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Originally Posted by Mruczek View Post
Now there's just a question, who will give you a compensation?

In case of 5-floor small commieblocks from 1960s - there is possibility that some investor would pay compensation (provided that everyone in the block agrees), dismantle the building, and build something anew, but in the case of such ant-hills like Novi Beograd*...

...I seriously doubt.

* Yes, I know you are from Croatia, not from Serbia, I didn't mean to insult you or something, just Novi Beograd is the only Corbusier-like hell in former Yugoslavia that comes to my mind
It's still far too early for such a gigantic project as relocating people from cheap, sometimes even unsafe buildings. I think it's not even necessary, it'll happen naturally. When you look at Britain (I assume you heard for those awful British housing estates from 70s) or Germany, people move out of those buildings themselves. Eventually, those buildings become vacant, so some developer buys them for few bucks, demolishes them and builds something new. I expect something like that happening in our countries 20 years from now. There are huuuuge brutalist estates in London that are being demolished as we speak. I don't think it's a bad thing. If they are worth preserving, they would be preserved. After all, this is 21st century Europe, and God knows how much heritage Europe lost and how it's sensitive when it comes to demolition of an "old" building.

Don't worry, I don't get offended that easily. It's a common mistake so I am used to it, but I appreciate your kindness.
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Old August 10th, 2015, 08:36 PM   #2253
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Quote:
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It's still far too early for such a gigantic project as relocating people from cheap, sometimes even unsafe buildings. I think it's not even necessary, it'll happen naturally. When you look at Britain (I assume you heard for those awful British housing estates from 70s) or Germany, people move out of those buildings themselves.
In Britain these were mostly social cheap buildings riddled by crime and poverty, owned by City Council. In East Germany the demand for housing decreased rapidly as thousands of people moved.

In most of former Communist countries I think these conditions don't apply. Especially since the carcass of these kinds of blocks is usually done properly and nearly everything else can be (and is being) replaced with better stuff.

I, for example, live in the commieblock commissioned in 1968 (ugly as hell). 16-17 floors, 2 staircases, 428 apartments. The communists ideas in action

Since 1989 the following parts of building has been upgraded/exchanged:
- elevations (new termic isolation from mineral wool + new plaster;
- woodwork; of course "woodwork" metaphorically, windows and doors are mostly from PVC;
- 4 out of 6 lifts; two more will follow as soon as we pool some money;
- house-entry phone system;
- CCTV (yet, still the staircases stink with piss, imagine how it feels now, when we've got 35 degrees Celsius)
- interior decoration - lobby: ceramics + new mini-trees in buckets
- interior decoration - staircases: just painted
- interior decoration - corridors: just painted
- electricity - wiring system replaced with new, copper cables;
- water collectors - replaced
- sewage collectors - replaced
- lightning - mostly replaced, some few old lamp retained
- gas system - replaced (that was actually a law in Poland that forced this - security standards increased after some accidents; as the results most of installations were replaced with sad aesthetic consequences: there's now plenty of ugly yellow boxes standing everywhere).

As for apartments inside: most of them were refurbished by their owners; there is no rule here, "The home is my castle" applies: I know that some of apartments of poor / older people look nearly the same as in 1968, when they were commissioned, except from the fact that they weren't refurbished since.

Most of people, however, change the interiors completely; luckily, the interior walls aren't part of construction carcass, so there is possibility to re-model the apartment, it's quite flexible. I, for example, dismantled the whole wall surrounding kitchen and connected it with large room to make a studio.

Well, it isn't particularly "large room". Actually, all the rooms are small, but we call it "large", because it's not as small as the others

Of course all the systems were completely exchanged. Most of furniture must have gone.

Actually, I am wondering what in my block remains original. Well, construction walls and ceilings, that's for sure, everything made of reinforced concrete. Estimated lifespan: 300 years

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Don't worry, I don't get offended that easily. It's a common mistake so I am used to it, but I appreciate your kindness.
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Last edited by Mruczek; August 11th, 2015 at 08:01 PM.
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Old August 10th, 2015, 09:22 PM   #2254
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Well, my commieblock is far more complicated. Since I live in a small town, all buildings are no more than 4-5 floors tall. There is no building with an elevator. Literally.
We can demolish only one or two walls. Others are load-bearing. The interior is just terrible. The apartments have only 1-2 bedrooms. In the whole town there is no apartment with 3 bedrooms. Splendid.
And did I mention there are no elevators? I live on the third floor so you can imagine how hard for me is to climb exactly 50 stairs every single day while temperature is 45 degrees Celsius now. Superb.
I think you understand now why I REALLY hate commieblocks.
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Old August 11th, 2015, 03:18 AM   #2255
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Guys, come on, there are smaller apartments than commieblocks. I saw them in... London
Even quite contemporary ones are surprisingly small. Many of 50's 60's flats have single glazed windows and some - bathrooms without vents.
Not to mention of two-tap sinks
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Old August 11th, 2015, 06:27 AM   #2256
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for some reason these buildings keep popping into my head:



to be fair, as long as the concrete is reinforced and properly installed and sealed no reason it can't last as long as some of the Roman aqueducts....and if you strip contemporary condominiums or apartments down - I mean the kind people in Toronto pay $375,000 for 55 square metres - they don't look much different than commie blocks at all, except for underground parking....and in Poland it is getting harder to park wherever you want.
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Old August 11th, 2015, 01:15 PM   #2257
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The modernist-inspired 'communist architecture' may be a doomed relic but it is part of the country's history and part of your social fabric-but you can celebrate your heritage while still improving the architecture
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Old August 11th, 2015, 08:03 PM   #2258
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I mean the kind people in Toronto pay $375,000 for 55 square metres - they don't look much different than commie blocks at all, except for underground parking....and in Poland it is getting harder to park wherever you want.
With the traffic jams as in Warsaw one can ask the question why the hell keep the car in the first place
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Old August 11th, 2015, 08:14 PM   #2259
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I think with enough money commieblocks can be turned 21st century inside and out. Someone made their commieblock apartment look like this.

The question is, who is willing to spend that money? And would it be more expensive to renovate or demolish?
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Old August 11th, 2015, 09:55 PM   #2260
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The worst stable can be turned into a palace with enough money. But one has to look at the sense of it indeed. If in a few decades the empty plots of land in cities like Warsaw are occupied, which for the moment seems unbelievable, but might happen eventually, such blocks of flats can be interesting places for investors to buy out and replace.
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