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Old August 11th, 2015, 11:29 PM   #2261
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The question is, what should be preserved from communist era, and what shouldn't? There are some pretty unique buildings (Pkin) that are of a great importance, but most of them are just cheap, built-in-a-hurry piece of sh*t. And the most important, THEY ARE ALL THE SAME. You can find two identical buildings in two different cities, or even countries. Russians even made a movie about that (can't remember the name of it). Also, those commieblock-neighbourhoods lack charm, urbanity and beauty. You feel like you're in a village with very tall buildings. I know that a lot of people want greenery and stuff like that, but you can always go to park for that. It's far better than living in a building surrounded by a forest with a view on other buildings surrounded by a forest. I do realise I'm probably in minority, but that's just my opinion.
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Old August 11th, 2015, 11:51 PM   #2262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urbanista1 View Post
for some reason these buildings keep popping into my head:

That's because I live in one

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Well, my commieblock is far more complicated. Since I live in a small town, all buildings are no more than 4-5 floors tall. There is no building with an elevator. Literally.
We can demolish only one or two walls. Others are load-bearing. The interior is just terrible. The apartments have only 1-2 bedrooms. In the whole town there is no apartment with 3 bedrooms. Splendid.
And did I mention there are no elevators? I live on the third floor so you can imagine how hard for me is to climb exactly 50 stairs every single day while temperature is 45 degrees Celsius now. Superb.
I think you understand now why I REALLY hate commieblocks.
At least your staircases don't stink with piss

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Originally Posted by Titan Man View Post
The question is, what should be preserved from communist era, and what shouldn't? There are some pretty unique buildings (Pkin) that are of a great importance, but most of them are just cheap, built-in-a-hurry piece of sh*t. And the most important, THEY ARE ALL THE SAME. You can find two identical buildings in two different cities, or even countries. Russians even made a movie about that (can't remember the name of it).


"The Irony of Fate", in Russia it's always broadcasted on TV on New Year's Eve:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0073179/
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Old August 12th, 2015, 12:09 AM   #2263
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Actually, our staircase does stink with piss.
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Old August 12th, 2015, 03:13 AM   #2264
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Quote:
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The question is, what should be preserved from communist era, and what shouldn't? There are some pretty unique buildings (Pkin) that are of a great importance, but most of them are just cheap, built-in-a-hurry piece of sh*t. And the most important, THEY ARE ALL THE SAME. You can find two identical buildings in two different cities, or even countries. Russians even made a movie about that (can't remember the name of it). Also, those commieblock-neighbourhoods lack charm, urbanity and beauty. You feel like you're in a village with very tall buildings. I know that a lot of people want greenery and stuff like that, but you can always go to park for that. It's far better than living in a building surrounded by a forest with a view on other buildings surrounded by a forest. I do realise I'm probably in minority, but that's just my opinion.
actually although Paris is stunning I often get lost in Paris because all of the buildings look alike. But yes I would rather live amongst omnipresent beautiful buildings instead of boring minimalist ones. Having said that I think mruczek's building is quite unique, the fašade has a nice rhythm of fenestration. The only problem is that in Paris the buildings are contextual, address the street, have ground level retail that animates the street. Mruczek's ignore the street, abdhering to a higher vision, homo sovieticus or something

my staircase smells like piss -too but that's my dog for sure.
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Old August 12th, 2015, 03:30 AM   #2265
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OZŻB is quite unique, you don't see this design poping-up in other parts of Warsaw not to mention cities and the vision they adhare to is a modernist one since they were inspired by Le Corbusier's UnitÚ d'Habitation although they are not really self-sufficient and the pilotis are hidden behind shops.
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Old August 12th, 2015, 03:48 AM   #2266
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We should make an organization, with members being the residents of commieblocks that smell like piss. I don't know why, but I think it would be quite popular.
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Old August 12th, 2015, 06:10 PM   #2267
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OZŻB is quite unique, you don't see this design poping-up in other parts of Warsaw not to mention cities and the vision they adhare to is a modernist one since they were inspired by Le Corbusier's UnitÚ d'Habitation although they are not really self-sufficient and the pilotis are hidden behind shops.
I'll have to have a closer look when I'm in Warsaw in a couple weeks. These buildings would be marvelled at to this day if they looked more like Unite D'Habitation. I liked some of Corbu's designs but the urban planning didn't work. Good thing his Ville Radieuse ideas were not implemented on too massive a scale except maybe in Brasilia and this OZZB district of Warsaw, still the idea of concentrating density to allow for more open space and or farmland is certainly being applied today to prevent urban sprawl and this is good one.
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Old August 13th, 2015, 12:55 AM   #2268
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The OZŻB neighborhood and Unite D'Habitation, is all the same sh*t to me.
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Old August 13th, 2015, 02:58 AM   #2269
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No offense but saying they're the same thing is like comparing the Chrysler Building to the Al Kazim Towers
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Old August 13th, 2015, 07:59 AM   #2270
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Plac Zelazna Brama (Iron Gate Square) and the modernist estate named after it:

While we're on the subject of the OZZB (Beyond the Iron Gate Housing Estate), thought I would post some pics to show some before and afters and the contrast/change in the urban character.

the area of the housing estate's namesake early post war prior to the clearance of ruins







under construction



early fifties behind Palace of Culture the estate has not been built yet



there it is with only a few surviving kamienice



still some ruins and kamienice in early sixties

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Last edited by Urbanista1; August 13th, 2015 at 08:04 AM.
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Old August 14th, 2015, 01:06 AM   #2271
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The empty lots are starting to be filled in and densities are intensifying in Wola, but if you look closely you can still spot some pre-war kamienice:



thanks Ring
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Old August 19th, 2015, 06:42 AM   #2272
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Panteon-Mausoleum

On September 27 at Powązki Cemetary, Warsaw, a new monument to the heroes of the underground movement murdered by the communist regime during 1946-1957 will be unveiled. All the remains of those victims which were thrown into mass graves after being tortured at a notorious prison in Mokotow will be properly interred at the new panteon-mausoleum.

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Old August 19th, 2015, 10:40 PM   #2273
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Panteon-Mausoleum

On September 27 at Powązki Cemetary, Warsaw, a new monument to the heroes of the underground movement murdered by the communist regime during 1946-1957 will be unveiled. All the remains of those victims which were thrown into mass graves after being tortured at a notorious prison in Mokotow will be properly interred at the new panteon-mausoleum.
Surprisingly good design
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Old August 19th, 2015, 10:44 PM   #2274
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The empty lots are starting to be filled in and densities are intensifying in Wola, but if you look closely you can still spot some pre-war kamienice:

thanks Ring
Everything in the foreground looks awful
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Old August 20th, 2015, 01:26 AM   #2275
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The only awful thing I see is the cheap alkohol shop
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Old August 21st, 2015, 12:30 AM   #2276
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Everything in the foreground looks awful
can you expand on your comment, specifically.
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Old August 21st, 2015, 12:35 AM   #2277
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The only awful thing I see is the cheap alkohol shop
I love those.
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Old August 21st, 2015, 03:36 PM   #2278
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can you expand on your comment, specifically.
Yes.

Specifically, I mean, the quality of the architecture / materials for the buildings in the foreground (on both the left and right hand side of the street), the quality of trees + the sporadic nature of the tree plantings, the lack of light standards, the small kiosk jutting out to the street, the pedestrian walkways, the poor state of the older buildings visible in the centre of the image.

The only thing redeeming about this is the fact that at least there is some consistency in the street wall.
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Old August 21st, 2015, 05:42 PM   #2279
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it does lack in uniformity aside from the street wall although there are some setback issues as well. I find however that this scene reflects an honest narrative of Warsaw's turbulent history, which I am starting to see as an endearing genius loci of Warsaw, especially now that it's being cleaned up and tamed somewhat and these "wyrwy" are starting to make sense and maybe provide some unique opportunities.

Certainly, the streetscape could do a lot more to unify the street and some features such as the ugly kiosk could use a more consistent palette of street amenities. Overall, having been to Warsaw I find the quality of materials very good and am often surprised how often real stone cladding is used versus the ubiquitous concrete prefabs, cheap curtain walls and alucabond we see in Toronto and other Canadian cities. In this scene there may be too many different materials used and some consistency would be nice, but they are from different periods.

I do agree wholeheartedly that the condition of the older kamienice is sad, but there are reasons for this that should be solved soon, it's not so much financial. We can't afford to lose anymore of these.
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Old August 21st, 2015, 08:37 PM   #2280
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it does lack in uniformity aside from the street wall although there are some setback issues as well. I find however that this scene reflects an honest narrative of Warsaw's turbulent history, which I am starting to see as an endearing genius loci of Warsaw, especially now that it's being cleaned up and tamed somewhat and these "wyrwy" are starting to make sense and maybe provide some unique opportunities.

Certainly, the streetscape could do a lot more to unify the street and some features such as the ugly kiosk could use a more consistent palette of street amenities. Overall, having been to Warsaw I find the quality of materials very good and am often surprised how often real stone cladding is used versus the ubiquitous concrete prefabs, cheap curtain walls and alucabond we see in Toronto and other Canadian cities. In this scene there may be too many different materials used and some consistency would be nice, but they are from different periods.

I do agree wholeheartedly that the condition of the older kamienice is sad, but there are reasons for this that should be solved soon, it's not so much financial. We can't afford to lose anymore of these.
I'm not sure why you are so touchy about my assessment of the foreground of the image you posted. I've itemized my reasons to you upon your request and your response about the turbulent history of Warsaw, and your assessment of Toronto architecture, doesn't change my opinion. Frankly, if there is one thing that Warsaw has over Toronto, it's the presence of prefabricated concrete panels, not the other way around.

I was born in Warsaw and visited relatively recently and I am aware of the advancements to the visual quality of the city that some public and private investments have made. However, in my opinion, this image conveys a rather mediocre streetscape that is not representative of that advancement.

Anyways, back to the topic
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