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Old May 16th, 2011, 01:01 AM   #281
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The painting in Katowice.

http://www.muzeumslaskie.pl/en/exhib...1800--1945.php
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Old May 16th, 2011, 04:24 AM   #282
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I agree, this square with the museum and rebuilt neoclassical palaces could be as dramatic and grand as Napoleon's Court at the Louvre with IM Pei's Pyramid, atlhough Pilsudski Square is more of a square than a courtyard. Right now it's a dead vast space with fuzzy edges on at least 2 sides, no sense of place despite its importance. No other place has witnessed the vagaries of Polish history and borne its scars like this square and I'm so glad they found the basements of Saski Palace and its predecessor the Morsztyn Palace intact.
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Warsaw Post-War Reconstruction to Present

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Old May 18th, 2011, 03:18 AM   #283
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I agree, this square with the museum and rebuilt neoclassical palaces could be as dramatic and grand as Napoleon's Court at the Louvre with IM Pei's Pyramid, atlhough Pilsudski Square is more of a square than a courtyard. Right now it's a dead vast space with fuzzy edges on at least 2 sides, no sense of place despite its importance. No other place has witnessed the vagaries of Polish history and borne its scars like this square and I'm so glad they found the basements of Saski Palace and its predecessor the Morsztyn Palace intact.
What's the Morsztyn Palace?
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Old May 18th, 2011, 06:44 AM   #284
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The original palace on this site built by Dutch architect Tylman Van Gameren in 1661 was built partly over the basement/foundation of a large Polish-style manor house (dwor) built by Tobias Morsztyn and later enlarged by his successor Jan Morsztyn in 1669 once he got permission to level the dykes that had been on this site. The palace that existed up until its destruction by Nazis in 1944 began to take on its final form in around 1713 when King August II bought it and started to enlarge it to turn it into a royal residence.
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Warsaw Post-War Reconstruction to Present
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Old May 21st, 2011, 12:15 AM   #285
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Often buildings rebuilt after the war received a more simplified, updated, politically-correct makeover and sometimes buildings were lowered or raised to promote a more unform street face - sometimes it worked, sometimes a great building was lost, you be the judge (thanks Polex):



















































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Warsaw Post-War Reconstruction to Present
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Old May 21st, 2011, 07:52 PM   #286
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Also, the painting is in Katowice. It is on the cities museum website.
There were at least two versions (two of these are known and exist till today) of the Jewish lady with fruits. One is said to be with lemons, the other one, the recently found one is with oranges. Gierymski painted or drew the same lady at least a couple of times, there are also other pictures with the Jewish lady selling things, and some sketches.



Also lost.

The version from the National Museum in Warsaw was a bit bigger then the Katowice one, and painted more carefully, like the Katowice version was something betweend the sketch to the painting and the final, 'geniuine' version.
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Old May 21st, 2011, 08:00 PM   #287
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Wow- did not know this. But basically the one in Katowice is the original work of the artist. The version seen on the website is quite nice though.
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Old May 21st, 2011, 09:37 PM   #288
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So, then the lost one (Jewish Woman with Oranges) which was recently found in Germany is still en route to Poland or in Poland or somewhere else. In any case, as I had heard that matter has not been resolved yet, but hopefully it will be repatriated permanently to Poland (Warsaw National Museum) shortly.
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Old May 21st, 2011, 10:40 PM   #289
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Wow- did not know this. But basically the one in Katowice is the original work of the artist. The version seen on the website is quite nice though.
What do you actually mean? All of it is the original work of the artist. It's just other versions or other works considering the same theme.

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So, then the lost one (Jewish Woman with Oranges) which was recently found in Germany is still en route to Poland or in Poland or somewhere else. In any case, as I had heard that matter has not been resolved yet, but hopefully it will be repatriated permanently to Poland (Warsaw National Museum) shortly.
I don't know what's the state of the painting big coming-back process. I hope that after they make sure it is Gierymski it will be brought back to Poland and then some of the preservative and reconstructive work will have to be taken under consideration.
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Old May 21st, 2011, 10:56 PM   #290
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Just so there's no more confusion, to my understanding this is the one that was returned and is in Katowice. This is the only one I have seen in news articles when writing about this painting (this one is also on the Katowice website). Other versions I have not seen.

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Old May 22nd, 2011, 12:16 AM   #291
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Just so there's no more confusion, to my understanding this is the one that was returned and is in Katowice. This is the only one I have seen in news articles when writing about this painting (this one is also on the Katowice website). Other versions I have not seen.
No. There were at least three know versions of the Jewish Lady as a theme of Gierymski's paitings.

1) The one from Katowice is there for quite a long time and as far as I know it never changed the place, yet I do not happen to know how it got into the collection of Silesian Museum, probably some gift or a purchase. This one is a bit smaller and is called "The Jewish Woman with Lemons"
2) The one from Warsaw is a bit bigger then Katowice version, and is painted a bit differently, as if it was the very last, the very finished version, definitive work on this theme. It was robbed by the Nazis during war, and when we were trying to get back all the works of art stolen during the war, with this piece we couldn't make it, as the painting (like many others, for example the Raphael's portrait of a young man from Czartoryscy Collection in Kraków) was considered to be lost, nobody knew the place of storage of it etc. Then, some time ago, it happend to come out on the auction. It occured to be the original, that's why they do everything to have it back in Poland, in Muzeum Narodowe in Warsaw, where it was stolen from, and when it was always on the exhibition. This one is called "The Jewish Lady with Oranges". And confusing as it is, since it's looks almost the same as the one from Katowice. And to add poor quality of the reproductions, that changes colors a bit, and make the picture a bit blurry, it is sometimes very hard to tell which version is which.
3) The one I posted above is another painting of the same lady. Gierymski had a period in his oeuvre when he turned with his studies and inteersts to Powiśle and started painting poor people, poor distroct of town, the Vistula bank and works on the bank, the Jewish District, and Jewish holidays, Jew themselves. The studies of the same Jewish lady come from that period. This picture is also lost. All we know it was the same woman. There are still probably some sketches in pencil as a workout before the painted compositions.

This, and the links to two other articles about his pictures should put the confusion away.

http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%BBy...ka_z_cytrynami

If you don't know there are two almost the same pictures, and somebody will show you two versions, still not being told, you are not able to say the deifference and that there is more than one.

Last edited by Filip01; May 22nd, 2011 at 12:22 AM.
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Old May 22nd, 2011, 11:06 PM   #292
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One must admit that choosing to rebuild Nowy Swiat based on its 18th century state, with 3-storey buildings of similar height they made it look more harmonic. But at the same time, the street look became somewhat less grand and more provincial. Also lack of trams contributes to this.
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Old May 22nd, 2011, 11:27 PM   #293
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There is a bus running down the street, which is quieter than trams would be, so that's nice, but yes it does look more provincial than it did pre-war but that was the Soviet Union's idea to turn Poland into a province. Anyway, there will be a subway station nearby by 2014.
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Warsaw Post-War Reconstruction to Present
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Old May 23rd, 2011, 11:01 AM   #294
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Wow! Some of those old builgins were really awesome.
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Old May 27th, 2011, 01:45 AM   #295
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Post War Modernism and the Construction of New Communities

Although it is trendy now to lament the loss of so much of the pre-war heritage buildings and historic fabric of European cities, especially Warsaw and Dresden, let us suspend our biases for a moment and consider the possibility that post-war citizens of these cities may have actually welcomed these new light, spacious buildings set in lush green parks fitted out with all the modern amenities including indoor plumbing, children's playgrounds, parking lots and local shopping and service centres.

Pre-war Warsaw was very densely populated in most parts, ancient buildings were quite squalid and delapidated in the old town while grand upscale buildings built along newly laid out beaux-arts style circles in Srodmiescie Poludniowe (Downtown South), Ochota and Mokotow were home to the bourgeoisie and their servants. Warsaw's Jews were integrated into the fabric of pre-war Polish Warsaw, but traditional Jewish areas teemed with life along Prozna and Nalewski Streets, life for the average Pole, whatever religion, was hard.

Although the imposition of communism after the war was welcomed by no one, the righting of injustices and class disparities was reflected in the modern housing estates that began to pop up like mushrooms after the rain everywhere gaps in the urban fabric due to destruction would allow and where infrastructure existed. Post-war planners were already mindful of the costs of infrastructure (something North Americans are just starting to learn about), so densities were hight, but tall buildings allowed planners to provide large green areas. The amount of green space in post war Warsaw was 40% more the pre-war Warsaw and there were 100,000 street trees by 1962 versus 39,000 in 1939.

A post war population boom and catastrophic war-time destruction forced planners to readily adopt the international style, modernism and new technologies of construction of new housing estates. Not all of it was bad, for most people after the war these clean bright spacious new communities were a breath of fresh air, so in the following days I will post photos of some the typical and exceptional modern neighbourhoods of Warsaw.



































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Warsaw Post-War Reconstruction to Present

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Old May 27th, 2011, 06:53 AM   #296
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New Housing Estates/Communities Today

Infill (Kamienice Style)











Social Housing





Large-scale Housing Estates

































Luxury Developments









image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr












Lavish Private Estates



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ten rząd wstrząsa podstawami naszej państwowości i funkcjonowania społeczeństwa. Natomiast większość społeczeństwa śpi, nie zwraca uwagi, co się dzieje i trzeba je z tego snu obudzić - Piotr S


Warsaw Post-War Reconstruction to Present

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Old May 27th, 2011, 11:29 PM   #297
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Great updates!
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Old June 2nd, 2011, 11:25 PM   #298
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Nice to see ypu drop by again I should have some more pics shortly, can't find any free time these days
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Old June 2nd, 2011, 11:54 PM   #299
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New Housing Estates/Communities Today

Hey, this has nothing to do with "new". It's very valuable modern building from the between-war period. You forgot, didn't you?
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Old June 3rd, 2011, 12:49 AM   #300
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Nice pics Urbanista, especially the old ones, pretty sure I see at least some of them for the first time so be sure to post them in the "PRL Warsaw" thread too.

As for the late modernist housing this movie is quite interesting:

but it shows examples from all around Poland not just Warsaw.


You can see this district (Sady Żoliborskie) at 2:47 which is considered as one of the best from this period and was nicely renovated:





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