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Old August 16th, 2012, 07:45 PM   #841
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rychlik View Post
I have a general question: are buildings like this protected in Warsaw? This happens to be in Praga.








And what happens to buildings like this?
the main reason for some of these derelict buildings is that ownership has still not been confirmed, very difficult in a city where so many if not most of the original originals were killed and finding their relatives is very diffucult. The law requires that every effort must be exhausted to find the heirs, but I am not sure at what point or after how mnay years this ceases. New developers can purchase these buildings, renovate them while accepting the responsibility of paying out heirs eventually, but this may run the risk of protracted court battles. The city can renovate these buildings to and require the eventual heirs to pay back the city's invetsment, but there are so many other priorties in this city that is still rebuilding from WWII that it's not at the top of their agenda. A new bylaw may be passed this fall by the city that may facilitate the renovation fo derelict building. It will require that heirs who regain properties in which the state had invested money to rebuild or restore be required to pay up to 25,000 zloties per unit to restore apartments where their current tenants would be moved to.
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Old August 17th, 2012, 08:11 PM   #842
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New Communities:

Glad to see that most new communities are comprised of low rise European style perimeter blocks as opposed to the tower-in-the-park style of the communist era, still imitated. Such a human scale of development with nice tree-lined streetscapes and ground floor services/retail all served with mass transit and active modes such as bicycling is the right formula I feel for dynamic new neighbourhoods.

















this planting strip looks a bit useless and awkward














and some offices so some people don't have to far to go to work









elsewhere













Wilno New Town (with train station)





















New Train Station:





New Residential in Office Parks













and there is still lots of this





infill in the completely devastated Wola district of Warsaw - you can see a few surviving pre-war kamienice (tenement houses) in the vicinity


















Muranow high density high rise









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Old August 17th, 2012, 10:39 PM   #843
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What has there been on the empty lots?
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Old August 18th, 2012, 12:48 AM   #844
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the empty lots you see in the city were built up before the war, but sadly destroyed during the war and in the case of Wola about 95% destroyed and never rebuilt. only the central parts of Warsaw were rebuilt around the old town and areas untouched also remain. these empty areas had this type of construction on them:



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Old August 20th, 2012, 12:58 PM   #845
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Quote:
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I'm showing this picture for dramatic effect but my question is this: were these graves moved after the war or are there people literally buried under the streets of Warsaw today?
Of course all the identified graves and burial sites outside Warsaw's cemeteries were liquidated after the war, meaning, the remains exhumed and buried anew in city cemeteries; most of this work was carried out in 1945-1946. Many of Warsaw Uprising fighters were buried at the Powązki Military Cemetery, where there are sections exclusively devoted to the Uprising.

As regards the civilian victims of the Uprising, the vast majority of the exhumed were buried at a new cemetery established on 25 November 1945 in the Wola district, called the Cemetery of Warsaw Insurgents. The name is misleading, because the vast majority of those buried there are non-combattant civilians murdered by the Germans during the Uprising. About 104 thousand people are buried there. (Warsaw's total human losses of the 1944 Uprising and its aftermath, amount to some 150 thousand).

It is also important to know that most of the buried were not exhumed from graves. Their ashes were carefully collected from huge piles lying especially on the streets of Wola and Ochota districts, where German units carried out mass slaughter of civilians during the Uprising. The Germans did not bother to bury them. The bodies of victims were piled up, spread over with gasoline and burned by their murderers (or by Poles forced by them to do so) shortly after the killings. In total, about 25 tonnes of ashes were buried at the new cemetery, obviously in collective graves.

All the above, of course, does not mean that absolutely all victims of the Uprising buried in unmarked graves in the city, have been found. At new sites of investments in Warsaw, far from cemeteries, human bones are sometimes found to this day (in addition to all types of unexploded ammunition). Most probably the remains of some unknown victims will stay undiscovered inside the city here and there, forever.

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Old August 20th, 2012, 06:02 PM   #846
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What has there been on the empty lots?
If you're asking about the pictures than mostly nothing, farm fields and such. In many cases they weren't even part of Warsaw before the war so I'm not sure why Urbanista1 showed places like Miasteczko Wilanw or Osiedle Wilno here, they are completely new districts. In case of Służewiec Przemysłowy there were industrial buildings (it even have "Industrial" in it's name) it's basically a industrial park from the communist times slowly changing into office park. Of all this areas only Wola was built up, it wasn't the wealthiest district though.
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Old August 20th, 2012, 09:27 PM   #847
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Of course all the identified graves and burial sites outside Warsaw's cemeteries were liquidated after the war, meaning, the remains exhumed and buried anew in city cemeteries; most of this work was carried out in 1945-1946. Many of Warsaw Uprising fighters were buried at the Powązki Military Cemetery, where there are sections exclusively devoted to the Uprising.

As regards the civilian victims of the Uprising, the vast majority of the exhumed were buried at a new cemetery established on 25 November 1945 in the Wola district, called the Cemetery of Warsaw Insurgents. The name is misleading, because the vast majority of those buried there are non-combattant civilians murdered by the Germans during the Uprising. About 104 thousand people are buried there. (Warsaw's total human losses of the 1944 Uprising and its aftermath, amount to some 150 thousand).

It is also important to know that most of the buried were not exhumed from graves. Their ashes were carefully collected from huge piles lying especially on the streets of Wola and Ochota districts, where German units carried out mass slaughter of civilians during the Uprising. The Germans did not bother to bury them. The bodies of victims were piled up, spread over with gasoline and burned by their murderers (or by Poles forced by them to do so) shortly after the killings. In total, about 25 tonnes of ashes were buried at the new cemetery, obviously in collective graves.

All the above, of course, does not mean that absolutely all victims of the Uprising buried in unmarked graves in the city, have been found. At new sites of investments in Warsaw, far from cemeteries, human bones are sometimes found to this day (in addition to all types of unexploded ammunition). Most probably the remains of some unknown victims will stay undiscovered inside the city here and there, forever.
thanks for the info Varsben. I suppose the vast majority of those buried at the cemetary of Warsaw Insurgents at 174 Wolska Street are in unmarked graves? I've had a very hard time locating any of my family who lived in pre-war Warsaw. my mother never tried, maybe for good reason. maybe I need to end the search at a place like this sadly - but I will check if any names are there. Also, Warsaw archives might have deaths recorded during the war:



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Old August 20th, 2012, 09:29 PM   #848
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluminat View Post
If you're asking about the pictures than mostly nothing, farm fields and such. In many cases they weren't even part of Warsaw before the war so I'm not sure why Urbanista1 showed places like Miasteczko Wilanw or Osiedle Wilno here, they are completely new districts. In case of Służewiec Przemysłowy there were industrial buildings (it even have "Industrial" in it's name) it's basically a industrial park from the communist times slowly changing into office park. Of all this areas only Wola was built up, it wasn't the wealthiest district though.
I was referring to Wola, sorry for confusion
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Old August 22nd, 2012, 10:00 PM   #849
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1905


1946
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Old August 23rd, 2012, 06:41 AM   #850
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put back into the stone age or what
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Old August 23rd, 2012, 03:07 PM   #851
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What a contrast!
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Old August 23rd, 2012, 05:01 PM   #852
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Quote:
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1905


1946
In the first building was interwar polish stock exchange. Was destroyed and not rebuilt.
http://www.warszawa1939.pl/index_arc...r1=gielda&r3=0
the second building in polish "Komora Wodna" was established the Department of Bridges. There is in Praga district.
http://warszawa.wikia.com/wiki/Komora_Wodna
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Old August 23rd, 2012, 08:06 PM   #853
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Restored today. Could use without the commie blocks in the background. Ruins the atmosphere. I couldn't get a smaller pic.

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Old August 25th, 2012, 09:01 PM   #854
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LOT Polish Airlines


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Old August 27th, 2012, 02:33 AM   #855
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Praga - Right Bank Warsaw

The often neglected right bank of Warsaw is finally getting the attention it deserves. With two new subway stations set to open on this side in a year and a half or so, developers are starting the redevelop brownfields sites such as the Koneser Vodka Works, but the City is also investing in new cultural amenities to serve as a catalyst for revitalization.

The Museum of Praga in the vicinity of the famous Rozycki Bazaar is the first major cultural project to get off the ground and should be completed in 2013. It documents the diverse history of this district and the multicultural mosaic that made of the community. The museum consists of two of the oldest kamienice or tenement houses in Praga, the Rothblith (1819) and Sokolowski (1873) kamienice, restored and adapted and a new building on the interior of the site. In the annex of the latter, archeologists unexpectedly found two Jewish prayer halls with badly degraded polichromies from the early 19th century. The conservation works under the direction of Dr. Pawel Jakubowski are in the process of restoration two polichromies, one on the northen wall of the prayer halls depicting Jews praying at the wailing wall above the location of the Aron Hakodesz where Torah scrolls would be typically kept; and one polichromy with the signs of the zodiac. Both are very unusual in that they depict human figures and have writing on them in a very old dialect of Hebrew. These polichromies had to be removed from the degraded walls piece by piece along with the stucco, so that the walls could be restored/reconstructed. The whole project is turning out to be very meticulous and painstakingly difficult, but the result will no doubt be worth it.

The museum will house a conference centre, library and of course many exhibits depicting life in Praga:



















restoration of room with polichromies

























to the rear you can see the famous Rozycki Bazaar







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Old August 27th, 2012, 08:39 AM   #856
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St. John the Baptist's Cathedral 60th Anniversary

This year marks the 60th Anniversary of the Reconstruction of St. John's cathedral in the old town of Warsaw. The rebirth of this sacral structure has a very interesting story, especially the story of how the current form was decided on by Architect Jan Zachwatowicz. Some of the story most of you Varsaviantists will know, but some details you may be surprised about. I won't go into the whole history, I just want to tell the story of its rebirth and recent history based on my readings and as recounted by Katarzyna Zachwatowicz, the daughter of the post war architect who rebuilt it.

What you see of the pre-war cathedral, is the result of its remodelling by Adam Idzkowski in 1837-1841 into the ornate and highly pointed English Neo-Gothic style. The cathedral who's origins date to around 1310 was damaged on September 17, 1939 when Nazi bombs first hit the packed building. A bomb tore a whole in the vaulting and another bomb destroyed the famous organs in the gallery above. The scree of wreckage covered worshippers. Then a bomb hit not far from the pulpit, but the reverend father went on to complete his sermon and blessing, according to records. But it wasn't until the Warsaw Uprising which started August 13th, 1944 that the building met its final fate. The building was shelled by artillery fire on August 17th which caused the roof over the presbytery to collapse and for a huge portion of the vaulting over the nave to collapse. On August 21st and 27th, unmanned, remotely controlled 60 cm high Goliath tanks (a couple original tanks are in the Warsaw Uprising Museum) were sent in packed with 50 kg of explosives each. After over 500 kg of explosives was detonated, the cathedral was completely ruined with the exception of the walls of the presbytery, under whose cracked stucco Gothic brick and the outline of the original gothic structure was revealed. Sifting through the wreckage numerous valuable artifacts were salvaged, which I won't go into here.

On May 30th, 1946 Polish Primate August Hlond summoned the reconstruction of the structure, which would be entrusted to Jan Zachwatowicz and later his wife Maria was involved in its details. He wondered what style to rebuild it in. He considered the original Gothic at first, then maybe Baroque - elements of which still existed; or he could go back to Idzkowski English Neo-Gothic. But these were the heydays of modernism when applied art and decorative pastiche of neo styles were perjorative words.

Zachwatowicz wrote: ""To było tak. Na zewnątrz był pseudogotyk, taki trochę angielskawy, zrobiony przez Idźkowskiego. I pierwotnie w pierwszych szkicach chciałem nawet Idźkowskiego odtworzyć. Ale jego koncepcji nie dało się pociągnąć ku grze, od razu pozostawała jakaś dezorganizacja w proporcjach. Więc zdecydowałem się odrzucić ideę Idźkowskiego, a zrobić szczyt nowy, a nawet w pierwszym odruchu nowoczesny" ["This is how it was. On the outside it was neogothic, a little English-like, by Idzkowski. In my original sketches, I wanted to restore his ideas. But I couldn't extend his idea to the top, the proportions were too disorganized. So I abandoned Idzkowski's idea and started a fresh design, something initially modern"]. A modern structure was considered that would tower over the old town. Jan loved sketching the old town as a young man in the 20's and knew every detail of it. But this wouldn't work with the re-emerging historic townscape, it would be too aggressive, too much of a contrast of styles. So, he decied to give it a more local Mazovian, gothic style ["będzie trzeba nadać temu szczytowi charakter bardziej lokalny, mazowiecki, gotycki".]

Experts believe, the inspiration for this new design may have come from St. Dorothy's in Wroclaw - you be the judge:





His idea was supported by the discovery of sculpted Gothic walls under the cathedral's surviving Baroque arcades and the clear outline of the original Gothic structure under the crumbling stucco of the nave and presbytery. Further discovery in the ruins of the original Gothic vaulting and window frames aided this idea. With the certainty that this was how the original Gothic structure looked, the re-Gothicization of the structure along with it's interior was decided upon. A hurricane ruined the intact Baroque vaulting of the Jesus Chapel, where today the famous 13th century Jesus of Warsaw crucifix and probably the most valuable of the cathedral's surviving artifacts hangs.

Work began in 1947 and was completed in "raw" form in 1952.

The cathedral's structural design was by Dr. Stanislaw Hempel

in 1987 the German firm Eule installed the new organs.

2012 marks the beginning of the cathedral's renovation and restoration.

360 degree panoramas of the interior and artifacts can be viewed at:

http://www.katedra.mkw.pl/index.php?...id=1&Itemid=26

Before war:





Post war



Now





The rebuilt Baroque stalls of the presbytery

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Old August 28th, 2012, 11:30 PM   #857
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Great pic although composition a little rough around edges - shows contrast between great parts of old city and new.

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Old August 29th, 2012, 06:13 PM   #858
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Have you read "Preserving the World's Greatest Cities" by Antony Tung? He did a good job capturing the reconstruction of Warsaw's old town and pays some attention to the cathedral. Also written about in Norman Davies' "Heart of Europe." You hit the nail on the head regarding the general disinterest in ornamentation, the other part of it was the tremendous resources in labour and cost (skilled craftsmen, molders and producers of custom ornamentation etc.) required to replicate the Neo-Gothic facade. Between the two sources I mentioned, the locally sourced "inspiration" for this "re-imagination" of the cathedral in a style no one had any actual information on was the gothic and neo-gothic church in the New Town (the name escapes me) and the church in Dzierżenin, in Mazowsze. I remember always thinking this church reminded me of the cathedral when we drove by it as a kid but now that I see it, the reference is interpolated at best. Anyways, thought I'd add my 2 cents.
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Old August 30th, 2012, 02:27 AM   #859
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I have read and re-read both -great books. I quoted Tung at the inception of this thread

I see what you mean about St. Thomas' in Dzierżenin, the facade of the east transept I believe and the towers looks remarkably like. St. John's, but then again it did suffer some damage during the war and may have been rebuilt in the spirit of a revived interest in Mazovian Gothic. It would great if Zachwatowicz's daughter published Jan's diary. The whole process is fascinating, especially how the post war modernist trend and anti-bourgeois sentiment in post war occupied Communist Poland motivated the architect - Mazovian can be considered a purer, folksier, honest, relatively unadorned vernacular.







Looks like much more of the original church survived:



Mazovian Gothic can be found much further afield in places like Łomża as the influence of the Mazovian Polans spread during the middle ages. The cathedral of St. Michael the Archangel is similar but with a unique front facade that terminates in a renaissance style:





the gravestones at this magnificent cathedral at and other interior decorations and heritage artifacts give an idea of what St. John's interior looked like before its destruction:















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Old August 30th, 2012, 04:32 AM   #860
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Neat stuff!

Would much prefer the neo-gothic facade; the current one looks out-of-sorts and almost too simple for something of its scale.
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