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Old February 28th, 2013, 03:26 PM   #1101
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Originally Posted by HotPocketPieLord View Post
This question may take a lot of thorough research, but has the Royal castles exterior been renovated or altered during the partitions (like a lot not little additions or a fresh coat of paint, large scale renovation)? I honestly like how the castle looked during the early 1900's. It felt a bit more extravagant. Plus i doubt that the castle looked like it does now during Stanisław August Poniatowski's reign.
This is a personal curiosity of mine as well, and one that my grandfather had some insight in, being on a military committee looking at the reconstruction of the castle, albeit at a distance since he was mainly just monitoring the project for record keeping purposes. He left behind a lot of material which my grandmother has in storage but between my memory of the material and Wikipedia (phew), we have the answer:

Prior to World War II, the castle had a neo-classical appearance that resulted in a renovation by the "namiestnik" of the then-Congress Poland (i.e. a vasal state in personal union with Russia), Iwan Paskiewicz. Paskiewicz requested a number of renovations, which Ludwik Corio (Russian court architect) implemented, leaving the southern, Vistula facing facade alone but changing the look and feel of the rest of the building. Historically, the castle was sand coloured, like Wawel in Krakow. Through Paskiewicz's renovation, among other things, the little towers on the side you see today were removed and the facade was modelled to look more "articulated" which I think gets at your question about the ornateness of the castle. It was also redone in white/gray, not red as it is today, reflecting the taste of the time.

Subsequent renovations between World War I and II resulted in the removal of the neo-classical adornments to reflect removal of "Russian" influences in key public buildings and returning them to a more "original" state. The little towers on the side were not rebuilt, however, and the castle stayed white/gray in colour.

After it was destroyed during World War II, it was not immediately reconstructed and when it was, the simpler facade was reconstructed, the towers on the side were added and the colour was modified to red. Why it was red remains a bit of a historical anomaly since it was not a historically used colour for the castle. However, it was traditionally used in baroque palaces in Warsaw, so the lead conservator of the project had some leeway in assigning the colour. I remember my grandfather mentioning that the red (a socialist republic's favourite colour) was politically acceptable, as we a simpler facade (for costing sake, too).

Interestingly, during the last renovation, there was talk about what colour the castle should be done in and it remained red despite being a product of a choice in the 1970's - 80's.

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Old February 28th, 2013, 07:19 PM   #1102
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Great answer!
And I hope it stays red forever as it's an attractive color. Because of this, the Royal Castle is quite a distinct looking building. It's one of the most recognizable buildings in Poland and central Europe.
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Old February 28th, 2013, 07:29 PM   #1103
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From post #1101 above, did the rebuilding of the buildings shown utilize the ruins shown in the top black and white photo as the foundations and structural core of the new buildings? Or, were the ruins fully removed and the buildings rebuilt from ground up?
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Old February 28th, 2013, 08:59 PM   #1104
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Hey rylchik make sure you source your photos
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Old February 28th, 2013, 09:39 PM   #1105
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Originally Posted by keepthepast View Post
From post #1101 above, did the rebuilding of the buildings shown utilize the ruins shown in the top black and white photo as the foundations and structural core of the new buildings? Or, were the ruins fully removed and the buildings rebuilt from ground up?
Yes - the reconstruction incorporated the ruins and what was left in situ. This was the best preserved side of Warsaw's Market Square (it is the north side). The east, south and west did not fare as well. The east side fared the worst, being completely razed to the ground from the ground up for the entire length.

Here is an example, from one of the nearby streets (which might be Szeroki Dunaj - "Wide Danube") @ http://www.audiovis.nac.gov.pl/obraz/315/
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Old March 1st, 2013, 12:20 AM   #1106
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Originally Posted by rychlik View Post
Interesting question. All I know is this is how the castle looked before the war and I don't know how much was altered in the centuries before. I like the green space. It should be restored. Other than that, the castle was almost perfectly rebuilt. Actually, can you spot two differences on the rebuilt castle?


I can spot four

1. the roof. Pre-war was made out of copper or tin is now tiled.
2.color. Was white is now red.
3.On the pre-war photo you'll notice there were two wings one facing the copper-roofed palace and the other sit right where there is an entrance.
4. The pre-war one had no little towers on the sides.
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Old March 1st, 2013, 12:29 AM   #1107
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Originally Posted by intervention View Post
This is a personal curiosity of mine as well, and one that my grandfather had some insight in, being on a military committee looking at the reconstruction of the castle, albeit at a distance since he was mainly just monitoring the project for record keeping purposes. He left behind a lot of material which my grandmother has in storage but between my memory of the material and Wikipedia (phew), we have the answer:

Prior to World War II, the castle had a neo-classical appearance that resulted in a renovation by the "namiestnik" of the then-Congress Poland (i.e. a vasal state in personal union with Russia), Iwan Paskiewicz. Paskiewicz requested a number of renovations, which Ludwik Corio (Russian court architect) implemented, leaving the southern, Vistula facing facade alone but changing the look and feel of the rest of the building. Historically, the castle was sand coloured, like Wawel in Krakow. Through Paskiewicz's renovation, among other things, the little towers on the side you see today were removed and the facade was modelled to look more "articulated" which I think gets at your question about the ornateness of the castle. It was also redone in white/gray, not red as it is today, reflecting the taste of the time.

Subsequent renovations between World War I and II resulted in the removal of the neo-classical adornments to reflect removal of "Russian" influences in key public buildings and returning them to a more "original" state. The little towers on the side were not rebuilt, however, and the castle stayed white/gray in colour.

After it was destroyed during World War II, it was not immediately reconstructed and when it was, the simpler facade was reconstructed, the towers on the side were added and the colour was modified to red. Why it was red remains a bit of a historical anomaly since it was not a historically used colour for the castle. However, it was traditionally used in baroque palaces in Warsaw, so the lead conservator of the project had some leeway in assigning the colour. I remember my grandfather mentioning that the red (a socialist republic's favourite colour) was politically acceptable, as we a simpler facade (for costing sake, too).

Interestingly, during the last renovation, there was talk about what colour the castle should be done in and it remained red despite being a product of a choice in the 1970's - 80's.

Good to know someone shares my interests. Also after reading this i looked at Canalleto's painting of Warsaw if you squint and zoom in at the clock tower it looks creamy, much like wawel as you said. However I think that the castle was red for some time, as if you look in the background of Matejko's May 3rd Constitution Painting the castle looks just like it did before WW1, but red. Maybe he had some insight on the castle that we don't (a lot of polish books were burned by the nazi's, and many more stolen by the soviets). Still i like the castle the way it is now, but if possible would prefer the original design.
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Old March 1st, 2013, 04:16 AM   #1108
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What are the most important cathedrals in Warsaw? Have they been rebuilt?
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Old March 1st, 2013, 04:52 AM   #1109
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The construction of the new Central Railway Terminal early 70's ,note the war-weary kamienice in the middleground and communist Warsaw rising in the background.



thanks janex wwa

the construction of communist Warsaw gathers full steam in early 70's













home sweet home









thanks demmat


can't believe they built these commie blocks on one of Warsaw's most beautiful historic streets, Dluga Street where it meets Nalewki and the west entrance to Krasinski Park, absolute sacrilege:







thanks adamMa
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Warsaw Post-War Reconstruction to Present

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Old March 1st, 2013, 05:17 AM   #1110
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The number of communist-style apartment buildings in Warsaw is truly astounding. It would be nice if they started blowing some of them up, but I guess that is wishful thinking.
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Old March 1st, 2013, 02:19 PM   #1111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimothyR View Post
What are the most important cathedrals in Warsaw? Have they been rebuilt?
3 Roman Catholic cathedrals, all of them destroyed, all rebuilt:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Joh...edral_(Warsaw)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Florian%27s_Cathedral
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field_C...he_Polish_Army

1 Orthodox cathedral, slightly damaged, repaired after the war. Unfortunately, there's no English article so translator will be needed
http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sob%C3%...ny_w_Warszawie

1 Polish-Catholic cathedral (since 1945), former disused Orthodox military church, then RC military church. Damaged, repaired after the war. Also, there is no English article:
http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katedra...ha_w_Warszawie

Protestant churches in Warsaw, although usually the main churches in the country, don't have the rank of the cathedral, IIRC.
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Old March 1st, 2013, 03:37 PM   #1112
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can't believe they built these commie blocks on one of Warsaw's most beautiful historic streets, Dluga Street where it meets Nalewki and the west entrance to Krasinski Park, absolute sacrilege:
Yeah - Dluga Street is actually really pleasant but a total mixed bag. Near Bank Square, the historical built form transitions to a higher density type of form, irrespective of the traditional streetscape. According to Antony Tung's "Preserving the World's Greatest Cities" the post-war architects sought to create "transition zones" between historic and "new" socialist neighbourhoods. This was on attempt, because the original concept for Bank Square was more high rises. That being said, they are god awful and wreck the streetscape.
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Old March 1st, 2013, 07:05 PM   #1113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mruczek View Post
3 Roman Catholic cathedrals, all of them destroyed, all rebuilt:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Joh...hedral_(Warsaw)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Florian%27s_Cathedral
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field_C...he_Polish_Army

1 Orthodox cathedral, slightly damaged, repaired after the war. Unfortunately, there's no English article so translator will be needed
http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sob%C3%...ny_w_Warszawie

1 Polish-Catholic cathedral (since 1945), former disused Orthodox military church, then RC military church. Damaged, repaired after the war. Also, there is no English article:
http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katedra...ha_w_Warszawie

Protestant churches in Warsaw, although usually the main churches in the country, don't have the rank of the cathedral, IIRC.

Thank you Mruczek. This is very helpful.

I am using google-translate for the Polish articles. It works quite well.
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Old March 1st, 2013, 07:10 PM   #1114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mruczek View Post
3 Roman Catholic cathedrals, all of them destroyed, all rebuilt:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Joh...hedral_(Warsaw)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Florian%27s_Cathedral
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field_C...he_Polish_Army

1 Orthodox cathedral, slightly damaged, repaired after the war. Unfortunately, there's no English article so translator will be needed
http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sob%C3%...ny_w_Warszawie

1 Polish-Catholic cathedral (since 1945), former disused Orthodox military church, then RC military church. Damaged, repaired after the war. Also, there is no English article:
http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katedra...ha_w_Warszawie

Protestant churches in Warsaw, although usually the main churches in the country, don't have the rank of the cathedral, IIRC.
three of Warsaw's most beautiful churches survived by some miracle almost 100% intact:

St. Anne's



The Carmelite's Church



St. Joseph's



St. Anthony's suffered minimal damage

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Warsaw Post-War Reconstruction to Present

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Old March 1st, 2013, 07:43 PM   #1115
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three of Warsaw's most beautiful churches survived by some miracle almost 100% intact:
The boys ran out of dynamite and gasoline to the flame throwers.
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Old March 1st, 2013, 07:51 PM   #1116
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My pics.

Damaged in the war but restored.















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Old March 1st, 2013, 08:17 PM   #1117
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The boys ran out of dynamite and gasoline to the flame throwers.
The irony was that St. Anne's church nearly slid down the escarpment - when the W/Z tunnel was being built, the hill started to give way.
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Old March 2nd, 2013, 12:10 AM   #1118
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Holy Cross church wasn't so lucky:



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Old March 2nd, 2013, 01:39 AM   #1119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urbanista1 View Post
three of Warsaw's most beautiful churches survived by some miracle almost 100% intact:

St. Anne's
Well, not exactly. The Stanislas classical facade, indeed, survived intact. However, the roof burnt, some equipment was removed etc. Repairs after war took 16 years.

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The boys ran out of dynamite and gasoline to the flame throwers.
On the contrary. Explosives and, as you in the US call it, kerosene were in abundance. At least for purpose of destroying Warsaw

The reason that so many buildings from Krakowskie Przedmieście (Cracovian Suburb) survived in the first place was their localisation near Warsaw enscarpment. During 1944 Uprising most of them were controlled by Germans (which meant that they hadn't been destroyed during fight). Afterwards (10 Oct 44 to 16 Jan 45), when Nazis were burning Warsaw, the Vistula river was the line of the Eastern Front. Area of Krakowskie Przedmieście is clearly visible from the Eastern bank and close to the river (400-700 metres). Burning of the buildings and marauding within the firing range of notorious snipers from the Eastern front was, how to put it, reckless

Besides, the buildings of the Eastern side of Krakowskie Przedmieście (even numbers) gave cover to everybody in the rest of the Warsaw Centre. That's why North-West Centre was nearly completely burnt and destroyed by Verbrennungkommando, whereas Powiśle (between enscarpment and the river) survived in relatively good condition.

Also, the churches were built solidly, burning was not enough to raze the building to the ground. High explosives had to be used, which meant that before blowing it up there was no point in burning the building. It is also quite obvious that the buildings of Krakowskie Przedmieście had been planned to be destroyed in the last moment, just before planned retreat of Wehrmacht from Vistula line.

The point is, that the retreat didn't go as planned, because Stalin speeded up the January Offensive. For which I am extremely grateful

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The irony was that St. Anne's church nearly slid down the escarpment - when the W/Z tunnel was being built, the hill started to give way.
The interesting thing is that May-June 1949 battle for saving St. Anne's church was won due to electroosmosis. IIRC it was the first time the sliding soil has been stabilised by electricity.
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Old March 2nd, 2013, 08:30 AM   #1120
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Holy Cross

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