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Old March 3rd, 2013, 11:47 PM   #1121
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http://wczorajidzis.blogspot.ca/2012_02_01_archive.html
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Old March 3rd, 2013, 11:51 PM   #1122
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Used to be in Pilsudski Square.









http://dawnawarszawa.blogspot.ca/sea...C5%82sudskiego
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Old March 4th, 2013, 01:24 AM   #1123
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weren't they supposed to replace it with a Roman Catholic church after they demolished it, but plans were abandoned after WWII started?
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Old March 4th, 2013, 03:19 PM   #1124
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I don't think there was ever the intent to do this, as the square was to be the terminus of the "Os Saska"
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Old March 5th, 2013, 11:17 PM   #1125
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Urbanista, what's the status with the Praga district? Are these streets being rejuvenated? Is there more money pouring in to save these buildings? I love this neighbourhood.







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Old March 5th, 2013, 11:40 PM   #1126
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I love Praga’s gritty authenticity. This will one day be Warsaw’s chicest neighbourhood. A number of restorations are in the works by a very reputable restoration firm Fenix, no pics yet. The city is planning restoration of some of its communal housing kamienice. The Praga Museum is nearing completion and next to it a Creativity Incubator of sorts will see restoration of a number of kamienice, the Koneser post-industrial retrofit is moving forward with the first condos schedule for construction this year. The Design museum will be part of it, no confirmation yet. Lots of new infill happening and the older areas are waiting for young artists like you to take over and start revitalizing like Soho in the 70’s – in 20 years or sooner you’ll have a million dollar loft

everything must be done to preserve the historic character of this area from the wreckers ball.
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Warsaw Post-War Reconstruction to Present
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Old March 5th, 2013, 11:42 PM   #1127
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Any progress in building-up the Port Praski area? Also, wasn't there supposed to be a modern arena built near the Stadion Narodowy?
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Old March 5th, 2013, 11:42 PM   #1128
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Saski Palace.
I want to see this shadow once more.



https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=1&theater
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Old March 5th, 2013, 11:59 PM   #1129
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I love Praga’s gritty authenticity. This will one day be Warsaw’s chicest neighbourhood. A number of restorations are in the works by a very reputable restoration firm Fenix, no pics yet. The city is planning restoration of some of its communal housing kamienice. The Praga Museum is nearing completion and next to it a Creativity Incubator of sorts will see restoration of a number of kamienice, the Koneser post-industrial retrofit is moving forward with the first condos schedule for construction this year. The Design museum will be part of it, no confirmation yet. Lots of new infill happening and the older areas are waiting for young artists like you to take over and start revitalizing like Soho in the 70’s – in 20 years or sooner you’ll have a million dollar loft

everything must be done to preserve the historic character of this area from the wreckers ball.
Thanks for giving me props as an artist. I would love to display some of my photography in Warsaw one day.
I hear that a lot of artists are starting to move into Praga because of the cheaper rents, etc. It's supposedly got this bohemian vibe.
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Old March 6th, 2013, 01:23 AM   #1130
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Saski Palace.
I want to see this shadow once more.



https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=1&theater
So you saw it before? because in that case i would also love to see it again.
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Old March 6th, 2013, 09:20 AM   #1131
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Beautiful church - poignant, sad story.
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Old March 6th, 2013, 09:22 AM   #1132
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Saski Palace.
I want to see this shadow once more.



https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=1&theater
Moving and haunting - like a dream.
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“In keeping silent about evil, in burying it so deep within us that no sign of it appears on the surface, we are implanting it, and it will rise up a thousand fold in the future. When we neither punish nor reproach evildoers we are thereby ripping the foundations of justice from beneath new generations.”

“The meaning of earthly existence lies not, as we have grown used to thinking, in prospering but in the development of the soul.”
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Old March 6th, 2013, 10:23 AM   #1133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mruczek

On the contrary. Explosives and, as you in the US call it, kerosene were in abundance. At least for purpose of destroying Warsaw

The reason that so many buildings from Krakowskie Przedmieście (Cracovian Suburb) survived in the first place was their localisation near Warsaw enscarpment. During 1944 Uprising most of them were controlled by Germans (which meant that they hadn't been destroyed during fight). Afterwards (10 Oct 44 to 16 Jan 45), when Nazis were burning Warsaw, the Vistula river was the line of the Eastern Front. Area of Krakowskie Przedmieście is clearly visible from the Eastern bank and close to the river (400-700 metres). Burning of the buildings and marauding within the firing range of notorious snipers from the Eastern front was, how to put it, reckless

Besides, the buildings of the Eastern side of Krakowskie Przedmieście (even numbers) gave cover to everybody in the rest of the Warsaw Centre. That's why North-West Centre was nearly completely burnt and destroyed by Verbrennungkommando, whereas Powiśle (between enscarpment and the river) survived in relatively good condition.

Also, the churches were built solidly, burning was not enough to raze the building to the ground. High explosives had to be used, which meant that before blowing it up there was no point in burning the building. It is also quite obvious that the buildings of Krakowskie Przedmieście had been planned to be destroyed in the last moment, just before planned retreat of Wehrmacht from Vistula line.
The above explanation is basically correct. Too bad it is little known, hence all the time here and there various legends on the "salvation" of churches on Krakowskie Przedmieście appear in publications. For example, I read recently the "account" of a "witness" claiming that a Catholic priest "persuaded" the German commander to spare those churches. That's a fairy tale.

Time ago someone in this forum asked, why the proportion of fin-de-siecle tenement houses destroyed by the Vernichtungskommandos after the Warsaw Uprising, was higher than of the structures erected in the inter-war period. The answer is simple: firstly, because due to their largely wooden load-bearing structures, they were much easier to burn/blow up, than the interwar houses mostly supported on ferroconcrete; and secondly, that feature made the latter much more suitable for defensive purposes, therefore, some of them were planned to be fortified, not destroyed.

Also, someone called the sparing of the Polonia hotel and some other buildings in its vicinity (such as the Rackman's house across the street) in the very centre of the city a "miracle". It was not a miracle, the Polonia hotel was one of the German garrison headquarters after the Warsaw Uprising. Blowing up the buildings in its vicinity would be foolish for purely military reasons, as it would signal Soviet airmen the last one standing as precisely the one housing German personnel, exposing it to air attacks.

The final destruction of Warsaw by the Germans between October 1944 and January 1945 was a carefully planned and executed operation that left no room for any "miracles" or - even less so - any "magnanimous sparing" of Warsaw's assets by the Nazis.

The Germans could have inflicted serious damage to Paris in August 1944, but their local commander disobeyed Hitler's orders in this regard. In the case of Warsaw, German commanders had no scruples at all, and Himmler's order to complete its destruction after the fall of the Warsaw Uprising, was carried out to the letter by both military and civilian German occupation authorities.

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The point is, that the retreat didn't go as planned, because Stalin speeded up the January Offensive. For which I am extremely grateful
The "speeding up" of the January offensive (allegedly in response to Churchill's pleas for Stalin's help, when the Allies found themselves in trouble in the Ardennes) is most probably a Soviet propaganda myth. The timing of the offensive was determined by general geostrategic/geopolitical/logistic considerations. Therefore, there is nothing to be particularly grateful for to Stalin, at this point at least.

Anyway, by mid-January 1945 (when Warsaw was finally captured by the Russians), the Germans' job of razing Warsaw (as ordered by Himmler in October 1944) was already basically completed; the destruction squads ran out of time and thus failed to blow up (previously burned down or even almost intact) only a few important Warsaw historical buildings, such as the Belweder or Łazienki palaces (in the latter, German military engineers managed to drill holes for explosives in the walls).

But in general terms, as said before, the Germans did manage to destroy what they wanted to. What remained was left standing for military tactical reasons.
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Old March 6th, 2013, 06:42 PM   #1134
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The above explanation is basically correct. Too bad it is little known, hence all the time here and there various legends on the "salvation" of churches on Krakowskie Przedmieście appear in publications. For example, I read recently the "account" of a "witness" claiming that a Catholic priest "persuaded" the German commander to spare those churches. That's a fairy tale.

Time ago someone in this forum asked, why the proportion of fin-de-siecle tenement houses destroyed by the Vernichtungskommandos after the Warsaw Uprising, was higher than of the structures erected in the inter-war period. The answer is simple: firstly, because due to their largely wooden load-bearing structures, they were much easier to burn/blow up, than the interwar houses mostly supported on ferroconcrete; and secondly, that feature made the latter much more suitable for defensive purposes, therefore, some of them were planned to be fortified, not destroyed.

Also, someone called the sparing of the Polonia hotel and some other buildings in its vicinity (such as the Rackman's house across the street) in the very centre of the city a "miracle". It was not a miracle, the Polonia hotel was one of the German garrison headquarters after the Warsaw Uprising. Blowing up the buildings in its vicinity would be foolish for purely military reasons, as it would signal Soviet airmen the last one standing as precisely the one housing German personnel, exposing it to air attacks.

The final destruction of Warsaw by the Germans between October 1944 and January 1945 was a carefully planned and executed operation that left no room for any "miracles" or - even less so - any "magnanimous sparing" of Warsaw's assets by the Nazis.

The Germans could have inflicted serious damage to Paris in August 1944, but their local commander disobeyed Hitler's orders in this regard. In the case of Warsaw, German commanders had no scruples at all, and Himmler's order to complete its destruction after the fall of the Warsaw Uprising, was carried out to the letter by both military and civilian German occupation authorities.



The "speeding up" of the January offensive (allegedly in response to Churchill's pleas for Stalin's help, when the Allies found themselves in trouble in the Ardennes) is most probably a Soviet propaganda myth. The timing of the offensive was determined by general geostrategic/geopolitical/logistic considerations. Therefore, there is nothing to be particularly grateful for to Stalin, at this point at least.

Anyway, by mid-January 1945 (when Warsaw was finally captured by the Russians), the Germans' job of razing Warsaw (as ordered by Himmler in October 1944) was already basically completed; the destruction squads ran out of time and thus failed to blow up (previously burned down or even almost intact) only a few important Warsaw historical buildings, such as the Belweder or Łazienki palaces (in the latter, German military engineers managed to drill holes for explosives in the walls).

But in general terms, as said before, the Germans did manage to destroy what they wanted to. What remained was left standing for military tactical reasons.
All that effort to destroy a city so late in the war when they were losing. Strange.
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Old March 6th, 2013, 09:37 PM   #1135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Varsben View Post
The above explanation is basically correct. Too bad it is little known, hence all the time here and there various legends on the "salvation" of churches on Krakowskie Przedmieście appear in publications. For example, I read recently the "account" of a "witness" claiming that a Catholic priest "persuaded" the German commander to spare those churches. That's a fairy tale.

Time ago someone in this forum asked, why the proportion of fin-de-siecle tenement houses destroyed by the Vernichtungskommandos after the Warsaw Uprising, was higher than of the structures erected in the inter-war period. The answer is simple: firstly, because due to their largely wooden load-bearing structures, they were much easier to burn/blow up, than the interwar houses mostly supported on ferroconcrete; and secondly, that feature made the latter much more suitable for defensive purposes, therefore, some of them were planned to be fortified, not destroyed.

Also, someone called the sparing of the Polonia hotel and some other buildings in its vicinity (such as the Rackman's house across the street) in the very centre of the city a "miracle". It was not a miracle, the Polonia hotel was one of the German garrison headquarters after the Warsaw Uprising. Blowing up the buildings in its vicinity would be foolish for purely military reasons, as it would signal Soviet airmen the last one standing as precisely the one housing German personnel, exposing it to air attacks.

The final destruction of Warsaw by the Germans between October 1944 and January 1945 was a carefully planned and executed operation that left no room for any "miracles" or - even less so - any "magnanimous sparing" of Warsaw's assets by the Nazis.

The Germans could have inflicted serious damage to Paris in August 1944, but their local commander disobeyed Hitler's orders in this regard. In the case of Warsaw, German commanders had no scruples at all, and Himmler's order to complete its destruction after the fall of the Warsaw Uprising, was carried out to the letter by both military and civilian German occupation authorities.



The "speeding up" of the January offensive (allegedly in response to Churchill's pleas for Stalin's help, when the Allies found themselves in trouble in the Ardennes) is most probably a Soviet propaganda myth. The timing of the offensive was determined by general geostrategic/geopolitical/logistic considerations. Therefore, there is nothing to be particularly grateful for to Stalin, at this point at least.

Anyway, by mid-January 1945 (when Warsaw was finally captured by the Russians), the Germans' job of razing Warsaw (as ordered by Himmler in October 1944) was already basically completed; the destruction squads ran out of time and thus failed to blow up (previously burned down or even almost intact) only a few important Warsaw historical buildings, such as the Belweder or Łazienki palaces (in the latter, German military engineers managed to drill holes for explosives in the walls).

But in general terms, as said before, the Germans did manage to destroy what they wanted to. What remained was left standing for military tactical reasons.
And this is why Germany should pay for the next reconstruction stage of Warsaw. Similar to what the British did for the reconstruction of Dresden.
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Old March 7th, 2013, 12:27 AM   #1136
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And this is why Germany should pay for the next reconstruction stage of Warsaw. Similar to what the British did for the reconstruction of Dresden.
Tell me you're joking. The British put money into Dresden? Proportionally, how much?
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Old March 7th, 2013, 03:48 AM   #1137
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Well, the British government hasn't paid even a buck to support the reconstruction of Dresden, but there is a British charity called the Dresden Trust, that [with support of some major figures including members of the royal family] has collected donations from the general public in Britain to pay for some of the recent reconstruction costs: http://dresdentrust.net/index.html
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Old March 7th, 2013, 05:22 AM   #1138
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http://warszawa.naszemiasto.pl/artyk...d.html#galeria
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Old March 7th, 2013, 05:32 AM   #1139
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Kind of an iconic image.
No complaining. Just straight to work.


http://warszawa.gazeta.pl/warszawa/1...a_wystawa.html
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Old March 7th, 2013, 05:33 AM   #1140
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http://www.fotopolis.pl/index.php?n=...kan-z-historia
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