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Old June 5th, 2014, 07:36 PM   #1661
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Free speech in Poland is an obvious, but only if your view point is socially conservative :}
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Old June 5th, 2014, 09:05 PM   #1662
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What is the current situation with Saxon Palace project?
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Old June 5th, 2014, 09:50 PM   #1663
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Quote:
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Free speech in Poland is an obvious, but only if your view point is socially conservative :}
political correctness in the media is much more a problem in Harperland (Canada) frankly and just wait to see what's going to happen if Harper's pal Hudak wins Ontario provincial elections. at least in Poland there is a healthy debate and the prime minister of Poland does not avoid speaking to his people and does not run away when there is a crisis. I think from what I read daily in various online sites, debate is pretty healthy with many view points presented, and yes there are some sites that tend to one side of the ideological spectrum.
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Warsaw Post-War Reconstruction to Present
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Old June 6th, 2014, 12:44 AM   #1664
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Free speech in Poland is an obvious, but only if your view point is socially conservative :}
Not even remotely close to the truth. Then again, my family is from the urban landscape and my cousins and all their friends are still relatively young. I guess if you spend your time in villages speaking to elders when going back to Polska for a visit you might come to that absurd conclusion?
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Old June 6th, 2014, 01:41 AM   #1665
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I don't think our friend has been to Poland in a while, much more tolerant and frank than Canada/Canadians even towards gay people. I actually find Russian and Ukrainian people much more open ironically. What I find suffocating in Canada is that everyone is afraid to say anything, it's a country of ghettos and strangers where no one has time for anyone nor any divergent beliefs all embraced in an awkward politeness that's wearing thin. Anyway, I digress a too much, back to Poland and Warsaw.
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Old June 6th, 2014, 02:48 AM   #1666
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I don't think our friend has been to Poland in a while, much more tolerant and frank than Canada/Canadians even towards gay people. I actually find Russian and Ukrainian people much more open ironically. What I find suffocating in Canada is that everyone is afraid to say anything, it's a country of ghettos and strangers where no one has time for anyone nor any divergent beliefs all embraced in an awkward politeness that's wearing thin. Anyway, I digress a too much, back to Poland and Warsaw.
No Urbanista, having just today ridden on a train home from Bloor & Yonge after work, our tolerance and diversity are unrivaled species! I don't know if anybody on this planet of ours quite understands the way this society functions with the melting pot of people as a unified community. I don't agree with you whatsoever, what we have here is one of the most profound understandings and scenarios of how cultures, religious beliefs, sexual preferences and ethnic groups can so seamlessly live as a whole in such harmony. At the end of the day we function as a united group of people that this planet hasn't ever witnessed before. :

Anyway, yes, back to the topic at hand

Last edited by Atrium; June 6th, 2014 at 02:54 AM.
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Old June 6th, 2014, 06:11 AM   #1667
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ok group hug and lets go back to Warsaw
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Old June 6th, 2014, 08:06 AM   #1668
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The mesmerizing neon signs of post war Warsaw made Warsaw feel intimate and glamorous at the same time by night. This is a post war tradition rather that is now being revived. More later....





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Old June 6th, 2014, 02:58 PM   #1669
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I don't think our friend has been to Poland in a while, much more tolerant and frank than Canada/Canadians even towards gay people.
I last visited Poland in 2011. This is super funny and absolutely untrue.

While I have gay friends who live in both Warsaw and Krakow, the attitude of homophobia, as well as ingrained moral attitudes (in medicine, for example) is rampant. As a gay man, I did not feel comfortable in Krakow or Warsaw in the way that I would in many other European cities.
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Old June 6th, 2014, 02:58 PM   #1670
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The mesmerizing neon signs of post war Warsaw made Warsaw feel intimate and glamorous at the same time by night. This is a post war tradition rather that is now being revived. More later....
Are these old signs being catalogued anywhere?
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Old June 6th, 2014, 03:57 PM   #1671
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Here is a link to a documentary of the BBC on socialist era neon lights and featuring Ilona Karwinska photos and her mission to save them:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/go/em/fr/-/news/world-europe-21787148
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Old June 6th, 2014, 05:22 PM   #1672
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Quote:
Originally Posted by intervention View Post
I last visited Poland in 2011. This is super funny and absolutely untrue.

While I have gay friends who live in both Warsaw and Krakow, the attitude of homophobia, as well as ingrained moral attitudes (in medicine, for example) is rampant. As a gay man, I did not feel comfortable in Krakow or Warsaw in the way that I would in many other European cities.
Very interesting. I guess there are many different potential experiences one can have in the world out there. One of my cousins had a issue with my partner and myself, but aside from that we encountered openness and a kind of tolerant amusement. In Toronto, we had a neighbour who has moved thankfully who was extremely homophobic (seventh day Adventist) who made our lives miserable for some time and for others as most of our neighbours in this Leslieville pocket are also gay/lesbian. At work we had an incident of a gay person being bullied and persecuted....and not to mention our mayor Ford who has an open contempt for gay people....and all this in Canada. Sadly I no longer feel totally safe in Toronto, something has changed most of my friends concur.

Sorry to hear of your experience in Poland, hopefully it will be better next time.

As for medicine, you are absolutely right, it's disturbing. Knew a lovely woman, friend of my mother's, who refused medical intervention for her curable disease and ended up needlessly dying. This also happened to her relative a year earlier, a man of 49 who had a treatable condition and ended up dying. The reason being they didn't trust modern medicine.
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Warsaw Post-War Reconstruction to Present

Last edited by Urbanista1; June 8th, 2014 at 12:02 AM.
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Old June 6th, 2014, 05:47 PM   #1673
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Another look at Warsaw's newest urban square (Free Speech Square), as the city reclaims more space for pedestrians restoring it's prewar pedestrian-friendliness even more:



thanks zygzak
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Old June 8th, 2014, 04:08 AM   #1674
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At the end of the day we function as a united group of people that this planet hasn't ever witnessed before. :

Anyway, yes, back to the topic at hand

Not so sure about this statement. You're being too idealistic. I know for a fact, in private people have very different opinions.
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Old June 8th, 2014, 10:40 PM   #1675
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Quote:
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What is the current situation with Saxon Palace project?
None.
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Old June 8th, 2014, 10:47 PM   #1676
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Well, not entirely, some informal discussions took place between a developer group headed by Jan Kulczyk and the City at the behest of Forum Rozwoju Warszawy (Warsaw Development Forum) and an NGO Saski 2017 that is spearheading the revival of plans to rebuild this essential component of Warsaw's old town fabric. Something may come of it, a way must be found to rebuild the Saski as an office building or city hall or museum of Polish history....the square is too vast, bleak and purposeless not to mention aesthetically dull without it.
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Old June 8th, 2014, 10:51 PM   #1677
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Pre-war (Built 1923):

[IMG]http://i48.************/t9dwur.jpg[/IMG]

Post-war (roof and top floor burned down, details were stripped off post war):

[IMG]http://i47.************/25pizah.jpg[/IMG]

By next year, fingers crossed:



thanks Ring
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Old June 9th, 2014, 09:12 AM   #1678
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Quote:
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Well, not entirely, some informal discussions took place between a developer group headed by Jan Kulczyk and the City (...)
That's precisely, what I've said. Informal discussions, i.e. nothing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Urbanista1 View Post
(...) at the behest of Forum Rozwoju Warszawy (Warsaw Development Forum) and an NGO Saski 2017 that is spearheading the revival of plans to rebuild this essential component of Warsaw's old town fabric. Something may come of it, a way must be found to rebuild the Saski as an office building or city hall or museum of Polish history....the square is too vast, bleak and purposeless not to mention aesthetically dull without it.
Saski 2018.
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Old June 14th, 2014, 03:55 AM   #1679
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delete - offtopic.

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Old June 14th, 2014, 06:11 PM   #1680
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it's ok Atrium. I know Ontario at least is a pretty special place, especially Toronto, I grew up here. My point is that it's not all that black and white, under the surface people are generally very decent if you give them a chance to get to know you and treat them how you want to be treated. I have experienced that in many places even places classified as backward. Before the war Warsaw was a very tolerant and multi-cultural place as well, it expressed the best of the Polish national spirit. This cultural fabric, the legacy of the great Rzeczpospolita (Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, sadly it should have been Polish-Lithuanian-Ruthenian Commonwealth), the first truly tolerant multi-cultural state the world ever saw, is beginning to re-emerge in Warsaw today.
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