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Old July 27th, 2011, 08:33 PM   #81
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Thank you kind sir! I can't deny being passionate about this historic project!
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Old July 28th, 2011, 04:29 AM   #82
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Howard St. was in decline well before the light rail was built. If anything, I'd say it was the bus boulevard that totally killed it.
Howard was a dead issue before the bus boulevard. Everybody moved to the burbs the slumlords took over and that was that.
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Old July 28th, 2011, 02:40 PM   #83
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Howard was a dead issue before the bus boulevard. Everybody moved to the burbs the slumlords took over and that was that.
No. That's not true. It wasn't high end, but there was a steady line of retail along Howard along the street -- diners, jewelry and clothing stores, etc. -- before cars were shunted aside.
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Old September 1st, 2011, 09:18 PM   #84
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Red Line PAC (Political Action Committee)

http://red-line-now.com/

I suggest you join and get involved if you feel strongly about this particular issue.
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Old September 15th, 2011, 03:08 PM   #85
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Red Line could be at risk as Congress weighs funding

The east-west Red Line transit project in Baltimore could be at risk as Congress debates plans for long-term transportation funding.

Federal transportation funding had appeared in jeopardy with the current funding authorization set to expire Sept. 30, state transportation Secretary Beverly Swaim-Staley told state senators Wednesday. The state was bracing for a complete shut-down of federally funded transportation projects, she said.

Congress appears likely to avert that crisis, but there could still be work to do.

The House favors a six-year funding plan that would cut spending, while the Senate is considering a two-year funding plan at current spending levels.

A loss of federal funding could shelve the Red Line, a proposed Woodlawn to Canton project with a price tag of at least $2.2 billion. The same goes for the Purple Line in the Washington, D.C., area.

"We need to have the federal commitment before we could engage in those projects," Swaim-Staley said. "If there is no federal commitment, that funding would go to other projects."

If there is not funding for the major transit projects, other road improvements would move up the priority list.

But in the meantime, the state is staying the course on the Red and Purple lines.

"We'll continue with the planning so we don't lose our spot in line, so to speak," Swaim-Staley said.

http://www.bizjournals.com/baltimore...-congress.html

Some will be disappointed, but others ecstatic.
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Old September 15th, 2011, 05:29 PM   #86
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... Some will be disappointed, but others ecstatic.
... others, not too surprised .

This is the first step in the long process of letting the air out of the balloons of Red Line advocates and it's just as well.

The that would have erupted once downtown commuters and Fells Point residents finally grasped the misery they were in for once construction began along Lombard and Fleet Streets would have been unbelievable.

Money ain't there, and it's an ill-considered plan anyway.
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Old September 15th, 2011, 08:47 PM   #87
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This project is moving forward. We do need the federal dollars though...The Tea Party pretty much stands in the way of Baltimore's transportation future. I can't tell you how sick and tired I am of these idiots. Obama needs to put his foot down and fight these guys with their own medicine...If I were him I'd start cutting government spending and federal transportation dollars...in the states that elect these assholes. It is then that we'll see the true nature of these scumbags who day in and day out criticize the very institutions they depend on.

Its like Governor McDonnel of Virginia who holds a press conference celebrating the state's 500 million dollar budget surplus when the reality was that the only reason Virginia ended up 500 million in the black was because the GOP elected to not pay hundreds of millions into the state's pension fund that they had promised. Wow talk about passing the buck down. Then they have the audacity to criticize O'Malley for his way of handling the budget...less than a week later Maryland announced a 900 million dollar surplus...all we heard were crickets south of the Potomac.

You can't reason with these people. Facts and figures are all biased to them...especially the ones that are put out by non-partisan entities such as the Congressional Budget Office. In their eyes, anyone with a college degree in anything other than business school is a liberal hack. Relaxing some environmental laws is not enough for them, they want to get rid of the entire EPA. The list goes on, and on, and on, and on...and on. These people are fucking crazy and the worst thing is that only a fraction of the country's population pays attention to this stuff. We have no one to blame but ourselves.

The vast majority of people who mock, criticize, or ridicule the city of Baltimore either don't vote or left the city all together...basically, they're unengaged...if they really cared they would do something about it. So no, I will not let this project go down. I refuse to let idiots run my city or my state into the ground. And if that means hurting a few feelings and righting a few people off in the process, fine.

THE REDLINE NEEDS TO BE BUILT. WE HAVE A TRANSPORTATION SYSTEM THAT WAS DESIGNED DURING A PERIOD WHERE GAS WAS LESS THAN 50 CENTS A GALLON. THOSE TIMES ARE OVER. THE REDLINE AIN'T PERFECT BUT ITS BETTER THAN THE ALTERNATIVE OF DOING NOTHING AND GETTING NOTHING BUILT.

The same people who are dissing the Red Line are the same people who didn't want Oriole Park downtown with its wharehouse, the same people who thought the Inner Harbor was a dumb idea, and the same people who thought the Grand Prix would be a disaster. I'm sick of these people...move to Carrol County, or better yet, move to Texas.
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Old September 16th, 2011, 03:26 AM   #88
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This project is moving forward. We do need the federal dollars though...The Tea Party pretty much stands in the way of Baltimore's transportation future. ... The same people who are dissing the Red Line are the same people who didn't want Oriole Park downtown with its wharehouse, the same people who thought the Inner Harbor was a dumb idea, and the same people who thought the Grand Prix would be a disaster. I'm sick of these people...move to Carrol County, or better yet, move to Texas.
"The Tea Party?" When has anyone from the Tea Party ever commented on the Red Line?

"You can't reason with these people?" Translation: "Red Line advocates can't persuade taxpayers that there's a pony in this pile of poop."

"Same people dissing the Red Line are the same people who didn't want Oriole Park with a "wharehouse" and thought the Inner Harbor was a dumb idea?" Not even close: Oriole Park could be filled several times over with people who thought it was a good idea and think the Red Line isn't.

I guess there'll be no letting the air gently out of your balloon. It's done gone and popped.

P.S. It's absolutely high-larious that the Tea Party features in every liberal/left of center talking head's talking points these days. Y'all comparing notes, or what? And how come you didn't mention the Koch Bros.?

P.P.S. Are you not just a little surprised the EPA didn't bitch-slap the city for cutting down all those trees and dumping all that CO2 into the atmosphere for the Grand Prix? Buncha Algore-ignoring GAIA-haters in Charm City.

Last edited by jamie_hunt; September 16th, 2011 at 03:34 AM.
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Old September 16th, 2011, 04:28 AM   #89
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"The Tea Party?" When has anyone from the Tea Party ever commented on the Red Line?....
I doubt that they even have the Red Line in their little visions, but they are agitating against budgeting for transportation projects in general. I guess they think everybody should stay in their log cabin until planting time.
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Old September 16th, 2011, 03:24 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by jamie_hunt View Post
"The Tea Party?" When has anyone from the Tea Party ever commented on the Red Line?

"You can't reason with these people?" Translation: "Red Line advocates can't persuade taxpayers that there's a pony in this pile of poop."

"Same people dissing the Red Line are the same people who didn't want Oriole Park with a "wharehouse" and thought the Inner Harbor was a dumb idea?" Not even close: Oriole Park could be filled several times over with people who thought it was a good idea and think the Red Line isn't.

I guess there'll be no letting the air gently out of your balloon. It's done gone and popped.

P.S. It's absolutely high-larious that the Tea Party features in every liberal/left of center talking head's talking points these days. Y'all comparing notes, or what? And how come you didn't mention the Koch Bros.?

P.P.S. Are you not just a little surprised the EPA didn't bitch-slap the city for cutting down all those trees and dumping all that CO2 into the atmosphere for the Grand Prix? Buncha Algore-ignoring GAIA-haters in Charm City.
You're not even worth my time. Clearly I was blowing off steam. There are some of us in this country who actually want to do things rather than sit and watch the country wither away. The transit proposals you've previously come up with on this forum are unrealistic, yet I'm the one who gets labeled as the pipedream boy wonder. I think everyone on this board would favor underground heavy rail where nothing above the ground is disturbed...its not going to happen...as you often say, the money just isn't there. So what do we do? We've got to the next best thing which is the Red Line. But that's not good enough for you so you rather sit and do nothing...complain...make fun of people who have strong feelings about a project with real potential to do good for the city. I hope you're proud of yourself. Its really hard to stay optimistic in these times, especially with people like you constantly reminding people of the problems we all know about, but offering little to no realistic solutions.
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Old September 16th, 2011, 04:18 PM   #91
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You're not even worth my time. ... Its really hard to stay optimistic in these times, especially with people like you constantly reminding people of the problems we all know about, but offering little to no realistic solutions.
Well, that puts me in my place.

Listen, fellow Towson grad, is it too much to ask that you represent the U. and argue with clarity and, if you're going to demonize a group of people (e.g. Tea Partiers), can you at least provide a citation to support your assertion? This is basic Freshman Comp stuff, at least when I was there.

And it's not hard, even if you're blowing off steam. See, even in those situations, the cursor on your screen goes backward, and will erase obvious fabrications that make it seem as if you have no idea what you're talking about.

You want an alternative idea? Let the trees continue growing in the median of Boston Street which, in the last couple of decades, has gone from industrial wasteland to one of the most attractive gateways into the city.

For that matter, rather than whacking the already small lawns the rowhouses on Edmondson Avenue have to accommodate the Red Line ROW, how about giving that thoroughfare the Boston Street treatment, with a median with trees rather than tracks running down the middle. I'm sure Fr. Ed Miller and his congregation at St. Bernadette's, as well as other churches and businesses along the street, would pitch in to keep it looking good.

Here's another idea: how about paying down some of our debts while concentrating on making sure that the transit system we already have is functioning at its best.

Memo to fellow transit riders, if you haven't noticed: it's not. Not even close.

As far as my "contributing to the health and welfare of our fair city" resume goes, I started in the 70s going to door to door in support of the aquarium bond issue and have put in thousands of hours since on boards and committees, slinging grub in soup kitchens, leading tours of the West Side to head off its demo, pleading my neighborhood's case before the zoning board, going door to door again in favor of a plan to reuse Memorial Stadium, yada, yada, yada. Yada. Yada.

So, buck up, young fella: the death of the Red Line (in its current configuration) ain't the worst thing that could happen to the city.
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Old September 16th, 2011, 05:47 PM   #92
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Well, that puts me in my place.

Listen, fellow Towson grad, is it too much to ask that you represent the U. and argue with clarity and, if you're going to demonize a group of people (e.g. Tea Partiers), can you at least provide a citation to support your assertion? This is basic Freshman Comp stuff, at least when I was there.

And it's not hard, even if you're blowing off steam. See, even in those situations, the cursor on your screen goes backward, and will erase obvious fabrications that make it seem as if you have no idea what you're talking about.

You want an alternative idea? Let the trees continue growing in the median of Boston Street which, in the last couple of decades, has gone from industrial wasteland to one of the most attractive gateways into the city.

For that matter, rather than whacking the already small lawns the rowhouses on Edmondson Avenue have to accommodate the Red Line ROW, how about giving that thoroughfare the Boston Street treatment, with a median with trees rather than tracks running down the middle. I'm sure Fr. Ed Miller and his congregation at St. Bernadette's, as well as other churches and businesses along the street, would pitch in to keep it looking good.

Here's another idea: how about paying down some of our debts while concentrating on making sure that the transit system we already have is functioning at its best.

Memo to fellow transit riders, if you haven't noticed: it's not. Not even close.

As far as my "contributing to the health and welfare of our fair city" resume goes, I started in the 70s going to door to door in support of the aquarium bond issue and have put in thousands of hours since on boards and committees, slinging grub in soup kitchens, leading tours of the West Side to head off its demo, pleading my neighborhood's case before the zoning board, going door to door again in favor of a plan to reuse Memorial Stadium, yada, yada, yada. Yada. Yada.

So, buck up, young fella: the death of the Red Line (in its current configuration) ain't the worst thing that could happen to the city.
Well I certainly appreciate your work on getting the Aquarium to become a reality. You deserve to be comended for that.

I think the basic disagreement we have comes down to how urgent we think Baltimore needs to transition into a less automobile dependent city. I think it needs to happen as soon as possible...you seem to be taking the "lets make sure if we do it, do it right" mentality. I get your point of view and 20 or 30 years ago, I'd right with you...but unfortunately time is not on our side. And as you bring up multiple times, the money isn't as plentiful as it was in the past. This means we have to do what we can with the resources we have and do it in a timely manner.

Please understand that my frustration isn't directed towards you because I think you or your ideas are inferior to mine, but more because I think you're not seeing the full picture. Maybe I'm wrong. There's definitely a good chance considering I still have a lot to learn, but please realize that's there's equal chance that your own ideas could be wrong. All I want is for people to examine the Red Line from a pros vs. cons perspective. And once that perspective is taken, I think the Red Line comes out more favorably than not. That's all I really have to say other than its unfortunate that we always seem to get in an argument when this important topic is brought up.
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Old September 16th, 2011, 06:37 PM   #93
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Well I certainly appreciate your work on getting the Aquarium to become a reality. You deserve to be comended for that.

I think the basic disagreement we have comes down to how urgent we think Baltimore needs to transition into a less automobile dependent city. I think it needs to happen as soon as possible...you seem to be taking the "lets make sure if we do it, do it right" mentality. I get your point of view and 20 or 30 years ago, I'd right with you...but unfortunately time is not on our side. And as you bring up multiple times, the money isn't as plentiful as it was in the past. This means we have to do what we can with the resources we have and do it in a timely manner.

Please understand that my frustration isn't directed towards you because I think you or your ideas are inferior to mine, but more because I think you're not seeing the full picture. Maybe I'm wrong. There's definitely a good chance considering I still have a lot to learn, but please realize that's there's equal chance that your own ideas could be wrong. All I want is for people to examine the Red Line from a pros vs. cons perspective. And once that perspective is taken, I think the Red Line comes out more favorably than not. That's all I really have to say other than its unfortunate that we always seem to get in an argument when this important topic is brought up.
I completely agree with you. You said it perfectly. I think its a generational thing, younger people are more willing to accept mass transit. At least that is what I read somewhere recently. I can understand homeowner's concerns, that is why I encourage proponents of transit to arrange for some of these naysayers to visit other cities where transit operates and is well accepted. Let them talk to other homeowners where light rail operates on ROWs in front of their homes, like Boston (an easy one days' visit). I hope the Red gets built, Baltimore really needs this for the city to grow and prosper in the 21st century.
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Old September 16th, 2011, 07:37 PM   #94
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... I think its a generational thing, younger people are more willing to accept mass transit. ... Let them talk to other homeowners where light rail operates on ROWs in front of their homes, like Boston (an easy one days' visit). I hope the Red gets built, Baltimore really needs this for the city to grow and prosper in the 21st century.
Hmmm. Other than school kids, I mostly see people of my generation on the MTA. The circulators seem to attract my kids' generation, though. Class? Race? Price? Dunno.

Boston's trolley system was largely built concurrently with the neighborhoods surrounding it. So, for example, if you take the Green Line out to Boston College, the houses along Comm Ave have always looked out on to the trolley ROW. Apples to Edmondson Avenue's oranges.

As far as the timing: heavy rail was dismissed early. I understand--but don't agree--with why it was.

The MTA put their chips on another version of the Light Rail line and another tunnel through downtown. The wheel has spun, and they've lost.

Eventually, we'll dig ourselves out of the debt ditch and have another shot at expanding the rail network. Maybe we'll get it right next time.

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Old September 16th, 2011, 07:44 PM   #95
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Well I certainly appreciate your work on getting the Aquarium to become a reality. You deserve to be comended for that.

I think the basic disagreement we have comes down to how urgent we think Baltimore needs to transition into a less automobile dependent city. ...
Thank Frank Gunther and Mayor Schaefer. Foot soldiers on the Aquarium project were a dime a dozen.

The way to get people out of their cars is to provide a faster alternative for them to get where they want to go. Metro Subway does this, and thus intercepts and carries a fair chunk of people coming out of the northwest 'burbs.

The Red Line as configured, not so much. As noted previously, the travel time for the Line from Edmondson and Swann to the University of Maryland is roughly the same as for the bus.

This isn't going to persuade anyone coming in from the western 'burbs to get out of his or her car.
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Old September 16th, 2011, 09:06 PM   #96
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Hmmm. Other than school kids, I mostly see people of my generation on the MTA. The circulators seem to attract my kids' generation, though. Class? Race? Price? Dunno.

Boston's trolley system was largely built concurrently with the neighborhoods surrounding it. So, for example, if you take the Green Line out to Boston College, the houses along Comm Ave have always looked out on to the trolley ROW. Apples to Edmondson Avenue's oranges.

As far as the timing: heavy rail was dismissed early. I understand--but don't agree--with why it was.

The MTA put their chips on another version of the Light Rail line and another tunnel through downtown. The wheel has spun, and they've lost.

Eventually, we'll dig ourselves out of the debt ditch and have another shot at expanding the rail network. Maybe we'll get it right next time.
I agree an underground system is preferable, but the funding isn't there. Other cities are constructing light rail systems - mainly in the west like Denver, Portland, Seattle, Phoenix, Houston - I don't understand why Baltimore doesn't function like these cities (if they can do it there why not in charm city). Its seems like Baltimore is always at the back of the line, in contrast with other comperable US cities. Also trolleys used to operate down the median on Edmonson Ave - Why can't they be put back?
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Old September 17th, 2011, 12:27 AM   #97
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I agree an underground system is preferable, but the funding isn't there. ... Also trolleys used to operate down the median on Edmonson Ave - Why can't they be put back?
No. The vision isn't there.

Consider: no one has challenged my contention (because they can't: the time schedules are there for everyone to see) that the Red Line along Edmondson Avenue is no faster than a bus.

So, why are we even talking about an Ed. Ave. segment? Social Security is being automated and its job count is dropping. Why aren't we talking about running the segment from the West Baltimore MARC station along the RR ROW to UMBC/Catonsville, where businesses are growing and there's room for a park and ride to intercept I-95 commuters the way the Owings Mills Station does on I-795?

No tunnels. No reducing the vehicular capacity of Ed. Ave. Chance to make it look decent. A speedy ride into downtown. What's not to like?

Yes, it's complicated to run a spur off an existing line, as would need to happen just north of the Lexington Market station as the line heads out of the Franklin-Mulberry ditch. But not impossible, and surely far less expensive than digging a whole 'nother tunnel through downtown.

Ditto for a spur east of the Charles Center or Shot Tower Stations heading south east with stops in the vicinity of Harbor East, Fells Point, Canton, and the big empty (developable, but open for commuters in the interim) spaces near I-95.

The MTA complains and grumbles it can be done. BS. It can be and should be.

We're talking about the difference between the fugly "concrete doughnut" stadium that was proposed for Camden Yards in 1972 and the beauty that was opened in 1992.

Do it right.
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Old September 18th, 2011, 07:51 PM   #98
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I agree an underground system is preferable, but the funding isn't there. Other cities are constructing light rail systems - mainly in the west like Denver, Portland, Seattle, Phoenix, Houston - I don't understand why Baltimore doesn't function like these cities (if they can do it there why not in charm city). Its seems like Baltimore is always at the back of the line, in contrast with other comperable US cities. Also trolleys used to operate down the median on Edmonson Ave - Why can't they be put back?
The Northeastern states seem to have a funding issue , while the Western states do not. Yet we have the ridership which is high.....
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Old September 20th, 2011, 10:05 PM   #99
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Hmmm. Other than school kids, I mostly see people of my generation on the MTA. The circulators seem to attract my kids' generation, though. Class? Race? Price? Dunno.

Boston's trolley system was largely built concurrently with the neighborhoods surrounding it. So, for example, if you take the Green Line out to Boston College, the houses along Comm Ave have always looked out on to the trolley ROW. Apples to Edmondson Avenue's oranges.
Weren't there were streetcars running up and down Edmonson Ave long before -- or around the time -- those houses were built?

According to national averages, owners of those homes along Edmonson and Boston Streets will be gone within the next 5 years. Why should they have a say over the future of the RL and Baltimore just because it may inconvenience them for a couple of years?
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Old September 20th, 2011, 10:13 PM   #100
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The Northeastern states seem to have a funding issue , while the Western states do not. Yet we have the ridership which is high.....
And LR is working there, and in Europe, where trolleys are huge.

Getting people out of their cars and onto trains has less to do with the time it takes to get some place on a train compared to driving. It's almost always faster to drive. It has more with the cost of gas, parking and traffic jams.

For $1.60 or whatever a monthly pass would cost now or when the fares will increase, you should be saving money and stress.

It takes a lot longer to take the metro to DC but it still makes more sense tot take it than drive, even when it's not rush hour.
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