GENERAL DISCUSSION

[Marckymarc]

Are there 48:04 seconds in an NBA game? 60:03 in an NHL game?...

Most people think I'm crazy when I pose this but I'm 99% sure I'm correct.
Now follow me on this:

When the game clock switches to tenths/seconds in the last minute of a period I say that they inadvertently add a full second to the clock.

The countdown goes, 1:02....1:01....1:00....59.9....58.9...57.9....and so on.

But isn't this incorrect? Shouldn't the clock go down from 1:00 (60) to 58.9 (59)?

Going from 1:00 to 59.9 as they do is basically counting the same second twice. You can prove this very easily just by verbally counting down 1 minute...59...58...57...and so on until you get to zero...but of course the horn doesn't sound when you get to "zero" because you then have 10/10ths (another second) to expire before the clock reaches 0:00 and the official horn.

So in reality a regulation NBA game is 48:04 instead of 48 minutes. All of the other sports would similarly have 1 extra second in each period.

Any thoughts? I'm not the sharpest knife in the block but I find it hard to believe no one's ever caught this.

[Darloeye]

Yes I seem to think you have a point. But been up almost 24hours

[CharlieP]

Originally Posted by Marckymarc

Are there 48:04 seconds in an NBA game? 60:03 in an NHL game?...

Most people think I'm crazy when I pose this but I'm 99% sure I'm correct.
Now follow me on this:

When the game clock switches to tenths/seconds in the last minute of a period I say that they inadvertently add a full second to the clock.

The countdown goes, 1:02....1:01....1:00....59.9....58.9...57.9....and so on.

But isn't this incorrect? Shouldn't the clock go down from 1:00 (60) to 58.9 (59)?

No. It should go from 1:00 to 59.9.

Going from 1:00 to 59.9 as they do is basically counting the same second twice. You can prove this very easily just by verbally counting down 1 minute...59...58...57...and so on until you get to zero...but of course the horn doesn't sound when you get to "zero" because you then have 10/10ths (another second) to expire before the clock reaches 0:00 and the official horn.

If you verbally count the way you describe, you're actually counting early.

The clock is basically "hiding" the decimal until it gets below 1 minute - when you see it flash up "1:00", you've just passed the 1:01 point. In that second that you can see "1:00", it's counting down from 1:00.999 to 1:00.

Hope this makes sense.

[Marckymarc]

Originally Posted by CharlieP

No. It should go from 1:00 to 59.9.



If you verbally count the way you describe, you're actually counting early.

The clock is basically "hiding" the decimal until it gets below 1 minute - when you see it flash up "1:00", you've just passed the 1:01 point. In that second that you can see "1:00", it's counting down from 1:00.999 to 1:00.

Hope this makes sense.

It still doesn't make sense.

The clock should tick down from 1:01 to 59.9 because 59.9 is 1:00. Ticking down from 1:01......1:00......59.9...... is adding a phantom second.

As far as hiding the decimal point what you're not taking into consideration is that when the period begins it's basically starting at 12:00.9 and counting down to 0:00--that's a full second too long. The clock should start at 11:59.9, which would be represented as just 11:59.

[ultEmate]

Originally Posted by CharlieP

The clock is basically "hiding" the decimal until it gets below 1 minute - when you see it flash up "1:00", you've just passed the 1:01 point. In that second that you can see "1:00", it's counting down from 1:00.999 to 1:00.

^This.

The clock should start at 11:59.9, which would be represented as just 11:59.

It IS starting at 11:59.999. It's called rounding off.

[CharlieP]

Originally Posted by Marckymarc

It still doesn't make sense.

The clock should tick down from 1:01 to 59.9 because 59.9 is 1:00. Ticking down from 1:01......1:00......59.9...... is adding a phantom second.

1:01 for one second
1:00 for one second
59.9 for 0.1 seconds
59.8 for 0.1 seconds

etc.

Furthermore, if your eyes were quick enough, you'd see that the game finished after displaying 0.0 for 0.1 seconds.

As far as hiding the decimal point what you're not taking into consideration is that when the period begins it's basically starting at 12:00.9 and counting down to 0:00--that's a full second too long. The clock should start at 11:59.9, which would be represented as just 11:59.

No, the clock should show 12:00 before the period starts, then jump straight to 11:59 for one second, then 11:58 for one second and so on. Unfortunately, since you can't see exactly when the timekeeper presses his little button, this isn't apparent.

[Rev Stickleback]

When the scoreboard gets to 0, the games ends. It doesn't end after one second of the scoreboard showing 0.


To spell it out rather more bluntly, imagine a game lasting just one second.

When the game started, there'd be a big 1 on the scoreboard.

That 1 would stay there for one second.

The scoreboard would then show 0, and the game would end immediately. It would not show 0 for a further second, then end the game.

[Alemanniafan]

Tadaa we've got a new Einstein in the forum!

Now on topic:

Originally Posted by Marckymarc

It still doesn't make sense.

The clock should tick down from 1:01 to 59.9 because 59.9 is 1:00. Ticking down from 1:01......1:00......59.9...... is adding a phantom second.

As far as hiding the decimal point what you're not taking into consideration is that when the period begins it's basically starting at 12:00.9 and counting down to 0:00--that's a full second too long. The clock should start at 11:59.9, which would be represented as just 11:59.

It should properly be like this:
elapsed time:............] [ 1 second ] [ ooooooooooonnnnnnnnnneeeeeeeee ssssseeeeeccccccooooonnnnnnnnddddd]
elapsed time:............] [ 1 second ] [ 1/10 sec ] [ 1/10 sec ] [......................................................................] [.........]End of game
time left to play:......1:01..........1:00............59.9.............59.8..........59.7..................................................59.0.........0
identical to:.............61.0..........60.0............59.9.............59.8..........59.7..................................................59.0.........0

or alternatively:.......1:01..........1:00.......................................................................................................0:59.........0

There should definetely be only 1/10 sec elapsing between the clock showing 1:00 and 59.9 because 1 minute is identical to 60.0 seconds that simple. And the game really should end immediately right the incident the 0 is hit, not after the 0 is up there for a while.

[Welshlad]

I think some people think too much

[CharlieP]

Diagrams are fun!

This is what's actually happening, if we break it down by 1/10 of a second at a time:

Time remaining - Time displayed on clock

...
61.1 seconds - 1:01.1
61.0 seconds - 1:01.0
60.9 seconds - 1:00.9
60.8 seconds - 1:00.8
60.7 seconds - 1:00.7
60.6 seconds - 1:00.6
60.5 seconds - 1:00.5
60.4 seconds - 1:00.4
60.3 seconds - 1:00.3
60.2 seconds - 1:00.2
60.1 seconds - 1:00.1
60.0 seconds - 1:00.0
59.9 seconds - 59.9
59.8 seconds - 59.8
59.7 seconds - 59.7
59.6 seconds - 59.6
59.5 seconds - 59.5
59.4 seconds - 59.4
59.3 seconds - 59.3
59.2 seconds - 59.2
...

[CharlieP]

Originally Posted by CharlieP

Diagrams are fun!

This is what's actually happening, if we break it down by 1/10 of a second at a time:

Time remaining - Time displayed on clock

...
61.1 seconds - 1:01.1
61.0 seconds - 1:01.0
60.9 seconds - 1:00.9
60.8 seconds - 1:00.8
60.7 seconds - 1:00.7
60.6 seconds - 1:00.6
60.5 seconds - 1:00.5
60.4 seconds - 1:00.4
60.3 seconds - 1:00.3
60.2 seconds - 1:00.2
60.1 seconds - 1:00.1
60.0 seconds - 1:00.0
59.9 seconds - 59.9
59.8 seconds - 59.8
59.7 seconds - 59.7
59.6 seconds - 59.6
59.5 seconds - 59.5
59.4 seconds - 59.4
59.3 seconds - 59.3
59.2 seconds - 59.2
...

Or, if we assume that the clock refreshes its display every 1/50 of a second:

60.20 seconds - 1:00.2
60.18 seconds - 1:00.1
60.16 seconds - 1:00.1
60.14 seconds - 1:00.1
60.12 seconds - 1:00.1
60.10 seconds - 1:00.1
60.08 seconds - 1:00.0
60.06 seconds - 1:00.0
60.04 seconds - 1:00.0
60.02 seconds - 1:00.0
60.00 seconds - 1:00.0
59.98 seconds - 59.9
59.96 seconds - 59.9
59.94 seconds - 59.9
59.92 seconds - 59.9
59.90 seconds - 59.9
59.88 seconds - 59.8
59.86 seconds - 59.8
59.84 seconds - 59.8

Originally Posted by Marckymarc

Going from 1:00 to 59.9 as they do is basically counting the same second twice. You can prove this very easily just by verbally counting down 1 minute...59...58...57...and so on until you get to zero...but of course the horn doesn't sound when you get to "zero" because you then have 10/10ths (another second) to expire before the clock reaches 0:00 and the official horn.

If you're shouting out the numbers as soon as you see them appear, you'll shout "sixty-one!" at 1:01.98, "sixty!" at 1:00.98, "fifty-nine!" at 59.98, "fifty-eight!" at 58.98 and so on until "one!" at 1.98, "zero!" at 0.98, and, as you say, you get the hooter a second later.

Any thoughts? I'm not the sharpest knife in the block but I find it hard to believe no one's ever caught this.

That's because there's nothing to catch. If there was a mistake, the lawyers would have had a field day by now.

[KingmanIII]

Originally Posted by Welshlad

I think some people think too much

[westsidebomber]

Originally Posted by CharlieP

Diagrams are fun!

This is what's actually happening, if we break it down by 1/10 of a second at a time:

Time remaining - Time displayed on clock

...
61.1 seconds - 1:01.1
61.0 seconds - 1:01.0
60.9 seconds - 1:00.9
60.8 seconds - 1:00.8
60.7 seconds - 1:00.7
60.6 seconds - 1:00.6
60.5 seconds - 1:00.5
60.4 seconds - 1:00.4
60.3 seconds - 1:00.3
60.2 seconds - 1:00.2
60.1 seconds - 1:00.1
60.0 seconds - 1:00.0
59.9 seconds - 59.9
59.8 seconds - 59.8
59.7 seconds - 59.7
59.6 seconds - 59.6
59.5 seconds - 59.5
59.4 seconds - 59.4
59.3 seconds - 59.3
59.2 seconds - 59.2
...

THIS^

This is exactly how it displays on the hardware. Here's a picture I have of from when I used to run my grade school's scoreboard. That ".whatever" is always there. You just don't see it on the actual scoreboard.

[Marckymarc]

Originally Posted by ultEmate

^This.

It IS starting at 11:59.999. It's called rounding off.

No it's not--that's the point. It starts at 12:00.9. That's why when the period begins you see the clock show 12:00 for a full second.

[Marckymarc]

Originally Posted by CharlieP

If you're shouting out the numbers as soon as you see them appear, you'll shout "sixty-one!" at 1:01.98, "sixty!" at 1:00.98, "fifty-nine!" at 59.98, "fifty-eight!" at 58.98 and so on until "one!" at 1.98, "zero!" at 0.98, and, as you say, you get the hooter a second later.

Why would you shout "fifty-nine!" at 59.9?

59.9 should be "sixty", 58.9 should be "fifty-nine" ...eventually down to "one" at 0:00.9, and "zero" at 0:00.0

The horn should sound when you hit "zero!", not a second later.

[en1044]

You're thinking about this waaaaaaaay too much. It's just as simple as it seems.

That 1% chance that you might be wrong? You are. Not trying to mean or anything.

[en1044]

Originally Posted by Marckymarc

No it's not--that's the point. It starts at 12:00.9. That's why when the period begins you see the clock show 12:00 for a full second.

No, it's not. By what you're saying, it would say 12:00 for 2 seconds.

This thread reminds me way too much of this. The answer is right in front of you.

[Marckymarc]

Originally Posted by en1044

You're thinking about this waaaaaaaay too much. It's just as simple as it seems.

That 1% chance that you might be wrong? You are. Not trying to mean or anything.

I agree that it's as simple as it seems. An accurate clock simply does not take a full second to go from one minute to 59.9 seconds. Doesn't get much simpler than that.

[Marckymarc]

Originally Posted by en1044

No, it's not. By what you're saying, it would say 12:00 for 2 seconds.

No, not at all. When the clock starts it takes a second to tick down to 11:59 (fact), therefore after exactly 12 minutes of play the clock reads 0:00.9 (fact). Add an additional second and the horn sounds to end the period (fact). Total time: 12:01 (fact). It's basic, simple math.


-

[en1044]

Originally Posted by Marckymarc

I agree that it's as simple as it seems. An accurate clock simply does not take a full second to go from one minute to 59.9 seconds. Doesn't get much simpler than that.

Because when the clock says 1:00, it's actually 1:00.9. Therefore, it takes an entire second to change from 1:00 to 59.9.