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Old December 31st, 2007, 08:40 PM   #201
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Originally Posted by federicoft View Post
Facts have shown it isn't.
Currently Rome airport system has more passengers than Milan's, excluding transit passengers.
Because Roman politics requires more flights to go through the capital.

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They surely produce lower yelds but that's probably not a big issue. On the other hand, Rome is the third touristic destination in Europe and its economic importance is not that negligible. And while the economic strength of Milan is mainly due to small enterprises with little presence on global markets, all the bigs Italian companies (Finmeccanica, Eni) have their HQs in Rome.
The two-hub structure for a relatively compact (although "long") country has been shown to be inadequate, so I agree with the fact that one city had to be chosen. I still fail to see how Milan's powerhouse status as capital of Lombardy and of the very wealthy Italian north could somehow be less worthy of status of "hub" versus a weaker Roman market.

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Plus, Milan's airport system is split up into two distinct airports, and this is not good in an airline hub perspective, while Rome's is concentrated into just one (the second one being just a LCC airport). And let's not forget that Alitalia historical hub has been Rome for decades, and they still have there hangars, maintenance areas, employees, etc.
Alitalia finds itself having to sell itself to the French precisely BECAUSE there is no real single hub. That does not mean that an airline in Italy has to use Rome as its hub. It just shows that Alitalia will no long be Italian because no government had that cojones to realize that Rome did not deserve to be an international hub for Alitalia.
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Old December 31st, 2007, 08:57 PM   #202
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Originally Posted by xote View Post
Because Roman politics requires more flights to go through the capital.
Would you care to explain?

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Originally Posted by xote View Post
The two-hub structure for a relatively compact (although "long") country has been shown to be inadequate, so I agree with the fact that one city had to be chosen. I still fail to see how Milan's powerhouse status as capital of Lombardy and of the very wealthy Italian north could somehow be less worthy of status of "hub" versus a weaker Roman market.

Alitalia finds itself having to sell itself to the French precisely BECAUSE there is no real single hub. That does not mean that an airline in Italy has to use Rome as its hub.
Currently, ALL Alitalia long haul routes but very few ones are Milan-bound. Still Alitalia losses are bigger than ever.

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Originally Posted by xote View Post
It just shows that Alitalia will no long be Italian because no government had that cojones to realize that Rome did not deserve to be an international hub for Alitalia.
Hopefully the French realized it deserves to be so.
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Old January 2nd, 2008, 07:58 PM   #203
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Originally Posted by Federicoft View Post

And let's not forget that Alitalia historical hub has been Rome for decades, and they still have there most of maintenance areas, employees, etc.
This has been the real cause of Alitalia's disaster.
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Old January 5th, 2008, 02:44 AM   #204
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This has been the real cause of Alitalia's disaster.
Not at all, since until the 90s it was a successful airline.
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Old January 15th, 2008, 06:10 PM   #205
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Prodi: Milan's Malpensa Airport "Central" To Italy Economy
15 January 2008

MILAN (Dow Jones)--Milan's Malpensa airport has a "central" role in Italy's economy, Italian Prime Minister Romano Prodi said in a statement Tuesday.

Prodi issued the remarks after the first session of a round-table meeting - dubbed the "Tavolo Milano" - which brings together leaders from Italy's northern Lombardy region with the government aimed at discussing the future of Milan's intercontinental airport.

Malpensa risks having up to a third of its flights transferred to Rome or canceled as part of troubled airline Alitalia SpA's (AZA.MI) possible sale to Air France-KLM (3112.FR), northern political leaders have said.

Roberto Formigoni, president of the Lombardy region, has warned of the potential impact to jobs and the regional economy of such a move.

According to the statement, the meeting focused on four points: the "centrality" of Malpensa to Italy's economy, opportunities to be generated by liberalizing air transport, the national government's promise to complete planned infrastructure servicing the airport, and potential unemployment benefits as Malpensa deals with eventual reduced Alitalia traffic.

Another meeting of the Tavolo Milano is scheduled for next week.
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Old January 16th, 2008, 05:01 AM   #206
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Originally Posted by joga View Post
This has been the real cause of Alitalia's disaster.
agree.
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Old January 16th, 2008, 05:07 AM   #207
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Originally Posted by Federicoft View Post
Not at all, since until the 90s it was a successful airline.
during the 90s MXP was a little pavillion fully pigeons...

Milan airport suffered of an huge delay of realization...

that was the problem IMO.

now the Italian reality needs a two-hub system (FCO/MXP) with no competition, but actually is not economically possible...

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Old January 16th, 2008, 07:26 AM   #208
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Italian economics minister says government was "horrible" manager of Alitalia
15 January 2008

ROME (AP) - Italy's finance minister told Parliament on Tuesday that the government has proven itself a "horrible" manager of Alitalia, noting that the company has continued to lose money, undergone constant management changes and failed to launch itself as one of Europe's top carriers.

Minister Tommaso Padoa Schioppa addressed skeptics trying to derail the government's decision to enter eight weeks of exclusive talks with Air France-KLM to sell the government's 49.9 percent stake in the struggling national carrier.

Conservative politicians prepared a series of motions aimed at getting the government to reverse its decision.

Politicians from the wealthy north are concerned about the Franco-Dutch carrier's plans to downgrade Milan's Malpensa from a hub while maintaining Rome's Leonardo da Vinci airport as Italy's sole hub. But Padoa Schioppa said the Alitalia rescue plan drawn up by management had already foreseen reducing routes to Malpensa and said the government was prepared to offer aid to for those losing their jobs.

"We need to say with honesty that the Italian state, without pointing to any political party, has proven itself over the years to be a horrible owner," Padoa Schioppa told lawmakers. "For at least 20 years, if not more, the so-called Italian system has been incapable of making its own flagship carrier, Alitalia, into one of the world's great airlines."

He noted that Alitalia has had nine chief executives over the last 15 years -- whereas Air France and Lufthansa have had two.

The Italian government picked the Franco-Dutch carrier to hold exclusive takeover talks late last month, preferring its bid to a rival one from smaller domestic airline Air One SpA.Air France-KLM Chairman Jean-Cyrill Spinetta last week confirmed that he plans to lay off about 1,700 Alitalia workers from a total of 20,000.

Padoa Schioppa said the government stands ready to help ease the impact of any layoffs that a sale of Alitalia SpA to Air France-KLM would bring.

Earlier Tuesday, Italian Prime Minister Romano Prodi told an Alitalia government meeting that he stood ready to help finance unemployment benefits needed for any layoffs.
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Old February 2nd, 2008, 06:43 PM   #209
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Alitalia says it will sharply reduce flights from Milan to cut costs

MILAN, Feb 1, 2008 (AFP) - Financially-strapped Italian airline Alitalia said Friday it would sharly cut back on flights from Milan-Malpensa airport in late March in order to reduce costs.

The carrier said it had given up some of the slots it controls at the airport that it would not be using during its summer season, which runs from March 30 to October 25.

Alitalia is currently in talks with Air France-KLM that could lead to its takeover by the French and Dutch group, which has backed Alitalia's plans to reduce operations in Milan.

Alitalia, in which the state currently has a 49.9 percent interest, did not reveal the number of slots it had given up. Regional officials in early January said the company was planning to cut nearly 800 flights a week, 134 of them intercontinental, from a total of 1,238.

The carrier on Friday would not confirm the figures.
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Old February 4th, 2008, 06:54 PM   #210
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Chance of rival Alitalia bid raises Milan's hopes

MILAN, Feb 4 (Reuters) - A promise of a rival bid for Italian airline Alitalia raised local hopes of a reprieve for Milan's Malpensa airport on Monday as flight cuts threaten to reduce its reach, just as the city pitches to host the global Expo 2015.

Domestic rival Air One, whose previous bid for the state's 49.9 percent stake in Alitalia was snubbed, said it would present an offer soon for the airline, which is in exclusive talks until mid-March with Air France-KLM .

Milan's Chamber of Commerce said it may back the bid, which has the support of Italy's biggest retail bank, Intesa Sanpaolo . Air One is challenging Alitalia over the exclusive talks in court and has a first hearing on Tuesday.

Air France-KLM backs plans for Alitalia to slash flights at Malpensa by 70 percent and use Rome's Fiumicino as its only hub. Air One has said it would maintain Malpensa's standing.

Shares in Alitalia were up 3.62 percent to 69 euro cents by 1116 GMT against a 0.55 percent rise in the overall index <.MIBTEL>.

The company is discussing an all-share offer from Air France-KLM worth 35 euro cents per share. Investors are betting that will either be raised or that Air One's rival bid will gain ground.

Talks with Air France-KLM were agreed by the outgoing government before the resignation of Romano Prodi triggered a political crisis which looks likely to head to an election. Opposition leader Silvio Berlusconi is the poll favourite.

On Sunday, Economy Minister Tommaso Padoa-Schioppa said the sale would go ahead despite the government's collapse and legal challenges from Malpensa and Air One.

Economic Development Minister Pierluigi Bersani said on Monday the connection between Alitalia and Malpensa had no market logic.

Bersani added the government would have been "crazy" to be prejudiced against an Italian bid, if one existed.

"If there are real proposals, they should be presented clearly and responsibly ... you don't make proposals through the newspapers," he said on the sidelines of a conference.

The government has called a key meeting on Malpensa's future this week.

Airport operator SEA will seek $1.86 billion of damages from Alitalia over its plans to slash flights at Malpensa, which is about 40 km (25 miles) northwest of Milan, Italy's financial and fashion capital.

WORLD FAIR AMBITION

Outraged local politicians, with an eye on their electoral heartland, and business leaders weighed into the debate over the airport's future as Milan promoted its candidacy to host Expo 2015.

"We are asking for a moratorium of at least two years, any other proposal would be unacceptable," said Luca Cordero di Montezemolo, head of business group Confindustria.

"We have to watch out for an area of the country which represents the jewel of Italy in production, commerce and international relations, which is the north," he added.

Italy's wealthiest regions with the highest growth rates are in its northern regions, many served by Malpensa for international flights.

"We're pushing very hard for a moratorium ... we want flights to be maintained for as long as it takes to substitute the flagship carrier," Diana Bracco, chairman of local business group Assolombardia, said at an Expo 2015 forum.

The local Lombardy region "cannot be penalised, I hope the government understands that," said regional governor Roberto Formigoni. "The strengthening of the Air One consortium is very positive," Formigoni added.

Newspapers reported over the weekend that Milan-based business leaders such as fashion designer Giorgio Armani and Pirelli Chairman Marco Tronchetti Provera could join Air One's bid. Armani was not immediately available to comment.
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Old February 5th, 2008, 06:11 PM   #211
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Court decision on Alitalia talks protest by Feb. 20

ROME, Feb 5 (Reuters) - An Italian regional court will decide on Feb. 20 whether to annul a decision allowing Air France-KLM to hold exclusive talks to acquire Alitalia , judicial sources told Reuters on Tuesday.

The TAR court is reviewing a lawsuit filed last month by Alitalia's domestic rival Air One as it prepared another bid for the loss-making airline.

Air One's previous offer was rejected by the outgoing government in favour of the one made by Air France-KLM, whose talks with the Italian airline are to last until mid-March.

The prospect of another bid has been pushing Alitalia shares higher. They were up nearly 3 percent to their highest since Jan. 21 in morning trade before turning negative amid a broader market slide.

Air France-KLM is offering 0.35 euro per share for Alitalia in an all-share deal.

With Italians set to go back to the polls in mid-April after the collapse of Prime Minister Romano Prodi's government, doubts about whether the sale will go through have risen. Prodi's government launched Alitalia's sale in December 2006 by putting up for sale the Italian state's 49.9 percent stake in the carrier.

Italian Infrastructure Minister Antonio Di Pietro said it would be inappropriate for a fallen government to approve a deal on Alitalia.

"Even if correct from a formal point of view, I believe it would inappropriate that an operation of such importance would be pushed through by a government that is expiring, or in fact, expired," Di Pietro told reporters at an event in Milan.

The prospect of Air France-KLM taking over Alitalia has met fierce opposition from politicians and business leaders in northern Italy over fears the region's main airport will lose its importance.

Even the manager of the airport, known as Malpensa and located near the country's finance and fashion capital of Milan, plans to file a lawsuit seeking damages over Alitalia's plans to slash its flights at Malpensa and refocus on its hub in Rome.

Alitalia will more than halve its slots at Malpensa to 170 daily from 350, the head of the airline's passenger and cargo division told a news conference on Tuesday.

Air One has won the backing of Italian banking giant Intesa Sanpaolo and local newspapers have reported a growing number of business leaders willing to help with its new bid.

The latest one to lend its support was UCIMU, an association of machine tool manufacturers, nearly all of whose members are based in northern Italy.

But one local politician warned time was running out for them to find an alternative solution to Alitalia's future.

"We can't allow ourselves to prolong this and bring about Alitalia's collapse," Filippo Penati, head of the province of Milan, told reporters at an event on Tuesday.

Alitalia is losing more than 1 million euros a day and executives warn it will need a cash injection of at least 750 million euros ($1.11 billion) to keep flying solo if it is not bought by the middle of this year.
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Old February 6th, 2008, 07:53 AM   #212
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Milanese business backs Alitalia counterbid

MILAN, Feb 4 (Reuters) - Milan business leaders threw their weight behind a promised counterbid for Alitalia on Monday, hoping to stave off flight cutbacks at Malpensa, the loss-making airline's northern Italian hub.

Domestic rival AirOne -- whose previous bid for the state's 49.9 percent stake in Alitalia was snubbed -- said on Sunday it would present an offer soon for the airline, which is in exclusive talks until mid-March with Air France-KLM .

Milan's Chamber of Commerce said it may back AirOne's bid, which has the support of Italy's biggest retail bank, Intesa Sanpaolo . AirOne is challenging Alitalia over the exclusive talks in court and has a first hearing on Tuesday.

"AirOne simply asked to be able to present a final proposal," Intesa Sanpaolo Chief Executive Corrado Passera told reporters at a forum on Expo 2015 on Monday.

Passera said the group backing AirOne's bid was not yet complete but there was "strong interest" from northern business leaders and other banks.

Pirelli & C could make a small investment in the initiative, but would first want to see the details, a source close to the matter told Reuters.

Weekend newspapers said Pirelli Chairman Marco Tronchetti Provera and other Milan-based business leaders such as fashion designer Giorgio Armani could join AirOne's bid.

Pirelli has declined comment, while Armani was not immediately available for comment.

Air France-KLM backs plans for Alitalia to slash flights at Malpensa by 70 percent, while AirOne has said it would keep the airport's standing.

Alitalia is discussing an all-share offer from Air France-KLM worth 0.35 euros per share but investors are betting the offer will either be raised or AirOne's rival bid will gain ground. Alitalia shares ended up 4.75 percent at 0.69 euro.

TALKS WILL CONTINUE

On Sunday, Italy's Economy Minister Tommaso Padoa-Schioppa said the sale would go ahead despite the resignation of Romano Prodi's government, which looks likely to head to an election. Opposition leader Silvio Berlusconi is the poll favourite.

In a Monday interview with France's La Tribune newspaper, French Secretary of State for Transport Dominique Bussereau said the demise of Prodi's government could make talks over Alitalia more difficult, but did not put a stop to them.

Adding a sense of urgency, Alitalia said on Monday its delicate financial state put constraints on the calendar for the talks.

Malpensa operator SEA will seek $1.86 billion in damages from Alitalia over the airline's plans to slash flights at the airport, about 40 km (25 miles) northwest from Milan, Italy's financial and fashion capital.

Alitalia said it had not yet been notified of the legal action threatened by SEA, but legal sources told Reuters it should happen by Friday.

Local politicians, with an eye on their electoral heartland, and business leaders weighed into the debate over the airport's future as Milan bid to host the Universal Exhibition in 2015.

"We are asking for a moratorium of at least two years, any other proposal would be unacceptable," said Luca Cordero di Montezemolo, head of business group Confindustria.

Italy's wealthiest and fastest-growing areas are in the north, and many are served by Malpensa for international flights.

The local Lombardy region "cannot be penalised, I hope the government understands that," said the region's governor, Roberto Formigoni.

Ahead of a key meeting on Malpensa this week, Padoa-Schioppa said he did not understand why the country's richest region could not present a business project to safeguard Malpensa and Alitalia's future.
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Old February 8th, 2008, 05:47 AM   #213
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Air One says new investors welcome in Alitalia bid

MILAN, Feb 7 (Reuters) - Air One said its renewed bid for Alitalia was open to domestic and foreign investors, as the small Italian airline continued efforts to drum up support for its plans to buy the country's flagship airline.

Air One has filed a lawsuit seeking an annulment of the decision allowing exclusive talks between Alitalia and Air France-KLM and is preparing a new bid after its previous offer was rejected by Italy's outgoing government.

"The project is open to various parties: national and international," Air One chief Carlo Toto told an event on Thursday on the future of Milan's Malpensa international airport, which stands to lose a large number of flights as Alitalia restructures itself.

Newspapers had said Giorgio Armani could back Air One's bid, but a spokesman for the Milan-based fashion designer said on Thursday the reports were incorrect.

Air One has the backing of Italian bank Intesa Sanpaolo , which said on Thursday it would wait for the court's decision before making its next move.

The administrative court in Lazio's province has set Feb. 20 for a decision on the lawsuit and asked all parties involved to hold off on any actions that could change the state of play in the battle for control of Alitalia.
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Old February 8th, 2008, 06:01 PM   #214
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Maybe the government should do what they've been doing with Alitalia for years, just keep throwing money at it. It's a great airline in my opinion. I guess I just don't understand the economics as to why it's not making money.
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Old February 10th, 2008, 08:30 AM   #215
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Maybe the government should do what they've been doing with Alitalia for years, just keep throwing money at it. It's a great airline in my opinion. I guess I just don't understand the economics as to why it's not making money.
bad politics and unions for example
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Old February 14th, 2008, 12:19 PM   #216
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Alitalia losses narrow, but warns on 2008

ROME, Feb 13 (Reuters) - Italian airline Alitalia lost nearly 364 million euros ($530.1 million) in 2007 as it waited to be sold, and warned that results this year would be worse than previously forecast while it tries to fend off a liquidity crisis.

The carrier, which expects to wrap up exclusive merger talks with Air France-KLM in about a month, has not posted an operating profit since 1998. It blamed high fuel costs, labour strikes and stiff competition for its poor performance.

It reiterated that it needed to sell assets and receive a cash infusion to the tune of 750 million euros by mid-year to continue operating normally.

Still, it said liquidity could remain positive, if sharply lower, this year even without the "indispensable" capital hike.

The state-controlled airline, which last year wrote down the value of its fleet, also said it had called in an independent expert to estimate the sale value of its aircraft.

The carrier's pretax loss narrowed to 363.9 million euros in 2007, from a loss of 605.2 million euros a year earlier when the 197 million euro fleet write-down had dragged down results.

Its 2007 operating loss also narrowed to 202.9 million euros, from a loss of 465.7 million euros a year earlier.

It was the airline's ninth consecutive year of reporting an operating loss. Operating revenues inched up 3 percent to 4.86 billion euros.

The company, in which the Italian state has a 49.9 percent stake, said its operating margin in 2008 would improve slightly from 2007 but showed a "material worsening" when compared with projections in its industrial plan.

A delay in any of its projects slated for implementation could also mean it would have to speed up the capital increase process, it warned.

Alitalia's exclusive talks about a possible sale of the carrier to Air France-KLM are continuing despite the fall of the government that chose it as Alitalia's partner and a court case raised by rival bidder Air One.

The head of Air One, Carlo Toto, has been trying to drum up support among businessmen for a revised offer and has secured a freeze on new developments until a court hearing on Feb. 20.

Shares of Alitalia, which is worth about $1.3 billion on the market, have tumbled nearly 40 percent over the past year, underperforming the broader European airline sector which fell 28 percent over the same period, according to Reuters data.
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Old February 20th, 2008, 02:58 AM   #217
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Italian right vows to delay Alitalia hub plans

MILAN, Feb 17 (Reuters) - The leaders of Italy's Northern League said on Sunday it was right to sell loss-making carrier Alitalia to Air France-KLM but vowed to put on hold for three years planned flight cuts from Milan's Malpensa airport.

Thousands of demonstrators gathered outside the airport to protest against Alitalia's and Air France's plan to downgrade Malpensa's hub status in favour of Rome.

Alitalia, which plans to cut its daily flights from Malpensa to 105 a day from 360 from April 1, is in exclusive talks to be bought by Air France-KLM. The airport is seeking $1.86 billion in damages from the airline.

"It is right to sell Alitalia to Air France, because otherwise it will go bankrupt," Northern League leader Umberto Bossi told the demonstrators, the first time he has openly spoken in favour of a deal with the French carrier.

"But it is also right to safeguard Malpensa's workers," he added. Malpensa lies in Milan's Lombardy region, one of the Northern League's electoral heartlands.

Another party heavyweight, Roberto Maroni, said that if the centre right won an April election it would impose a "three-year moratorium" on the downsizing of Malpensa.

"If we win, Malpensa is safe," said Maroni, whose party is allied to Silvio Berlusconi's conservative bloc -- favoured by opinion polls to win the April 13-14 vote.

The Italian state is selling its 49.9 percent stake in Alitalia, which loses a million euros a day.

However, the collapse last month of Romano Prodi's centre-left government, which backed a takeover by Air France, has raised questions over whether the deal can go ahead.

The French airline said last week it would drop its offer without the support of Italy's new government.

The comments sent Alitalia's shares down 4 percent on Friday.

Further complicating the sale is a legal challenge to the exclusive talks between Alitalia and Air France by small domestic airline Air One. An Italian court has put a freeze on new developments until a hearing on Feb. 20.
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Old February 20th, 2008, 09:30 PM   #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shezan View Post
during the 90s MXP was a little pavillion fully pigeons...

Milan airport suffered of an huge delay of realization...

that was the problem IMO.

now the Italian reality needs a two-hub system (FCO/MXP) with no competition, but actually is not economically possible...

Doesn't Alitalia already have a two hub system? Plus MXP would really benefit from a maglev system like they have in Shanghai. The Malpensa Express bus took forever to get to Milan the morning I took it last May. Later looking at the map I realized that MXP is just about as far as Bergamo is from Milan.


Also are people saying that Italy's geography makes Alitalia unprofitable? If someone wants to fly from Catania to Napoli or Palermo to Reggio di Calabria I doubt there are any direct flights.

I guess Italy has a transportation problem as a whole because my friend from Roma told me that I was lucky when I went to visit her. My train from Milan to Rome was only 12 minutes late, flight from FCO to CTA and back was on time with no strikes, and all the trains I took from Termini to FCO were running smoothly.

Last edited by FM 2258; February 20th, 2008 at 09:42 PM.
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Old February 20th, 2008, 09:42 PM   #219
joga
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Doesn't Alitalia already have a two hub system? Plus MXP would really benefit from a maglev system like they have in Shanghai. The Malpensa Express bus took forever to get to Milan the morning I took it last May. Later looking at the map I realized that MXP is just about as far as Bergamo is from Milan.


Also are people saying that Italy's geography makes Alitalia unprofitable? If someone wants to fly from Catania to Napoli or Palermo to Reggio di Calabria I doubt there are any direct flights.
You can catch the train from the inside of the airport to the core of Milano, right close to the castle. Time: 35min.

On december 2008 you'll be able to get to the central station directly from the airport by train witout any change.

It's better to avoid the motorway expecially during the day.
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Old February 20th, 2008, 09:56 PM   #220
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You can catch the train from the inside of the airport to the core of Milano, right close to the castle. Time: 35min.

On december 2008 you'll be able to get to the central station directly from the airport by train witout any change.

It's better to avoid the motorway expecially during the day.
Really? That's good to know. I took the bus because when I went in May 2007 the train stopped somewhere else in the city (yes, the castle you're talking about) when I needed to get to Centrale. The Malpensa Express seemed to be the only direct way.

Are they building a new set of tracks to the station or doing a simple rerouting? How long would it take to get there? I hear people love Linate because it's very close so if you just had an extremely quick way to get from all the way from MXP to the city center it would be just like flying into Linate.
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