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Old May 4th, 2013, 12:40 AM   #521
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From Repubblica newspaper, translation by google:

Quote:
Air France, in the red
"Alitalia will be in crisis at the end of year"
The French company, the company's largest shareholder with 25% of the Italian capital, ended the first quarter with a net loss of 630 million euro. The chief financial officer, speaking to analysts, has announced that the Italian subsidiary will enter into a liquidity crisis at the end of year

MILAN - Accounts still in the red for the Franco-Dutch carrier Air France-KLM, which ended the first quarter of 2013 with a net loss of 630 million euro, 66% more than the 379 in the same period last year. The turnover grew by 1, 3%, to 5.721 billion euro, with an operating profit of 557 million euros (-7.9%). Weigh on the accounts in particular, make a statement, an unfavorable exchange rate and review the fair value of derivatives (fixed at € 43 million, compared to 220 in 2012). For the rest of the year, the group "maintains its objective of a reduction in unit costs of exchange rates and oil costs constant, and a reduction in net debt."

As for relations with the subsidiary Alitalia, the French company does not reveal any plans for the future. "The problems in terms of liquidity of Alitalia will appear at the end of the year, probably in the last quarter. I do not think we'll have any big decision before then." He said the chief financial officer of the company transalpine, Philippe Calavia, responding to questions from analysts during the conference call on the results of the first quarter of the Franco-Dutch airline, Alitalia prior shareholder with 25%. The Italian company will be back to financial collapse. "As you know are in the board of Alitalia and then know the situation. There is nothing new compared to ads in recent weeks," began Calavia, adding that Air France-KLM has done his "duty as a shareholder" pouring its share of the shareholder loan amounting to "24 million euro at the end." The new CEO Gabriele Del Torchio will take office on May 6, recalled Calavia and "his first task will be to update the budget and the medium-term plan for Alitalia." Air France-KLM, he added, has "done some evaluations on our relations with Alitalia, but I do not think that we will take decisions in the coming
http://www.repubblica.it/economia/fi...anno-57965217/
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Old July 30th, 2013, 01:00 PM   #522
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From Il Messaggero newspaper:

Quote:
Alitalia
Del Torchio to cda: 300 million
will serve to September
Alitalia needs to find 300
million by September.

The liquidity requirement asked
by Gabriele Del Torchio to end
year, it should be anticipated. And 'what is
emerged yesterday by the board that
confirmed Elio Catania
deputy chairman and did
the point on the case-Toto
relation to the tax penalty.
As for the 300 million, the ad has
promised for the next board of directors
the end of August which must approve
the half-year to be able to give
account the way in
intervention: bank loan or
increase. The other vice
Salvatore Mancuso instead
criticized the sale of
power plant.
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Old September 4th, 2013, 02:10 PM   #523
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From The Guardian:
Quote:
Alitalia calls in boutique investment bank to advise on cash crisis
Italian airline, which has been bailed out repeatedly by the state, needs to raise more than €400m to stay afloat
http://www.theguardian.com/business/...bank-liquidity
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Old September 24th, 2013, 01:14 AM   #524
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From Reuters:

Quote:
Air France-KLM board in crossfire over Alitalia stake

(Reuters) - Air France-KLM (AIRF.PA) became the subject of a tug of war over its role in crisis-torn Italian partner Alitalia on Monday as Rome invited it to double its stake, while its own shareholders and unions looked ready to resist any new lifeline.

The board of Air France-KLM, which owns 25 percent of Alitalia after helping it out of bankruptcy in 2008, was due to meet at 1600 GMT as Alitalia prepares to tap shareholders for cash for a second time this year, people close to the matter said.

Alitalia is in the midst of a new crisis as it faces a cash shortfall of some 400 million euros ($540 million) and private Italian shareholders, who also took part in the 2008 rescue, become free to sell their shares when a lock-up expires in a month's time.

Air France-KLM will discuss whether to maintain its stake by participating in a capital increase, risk upsetting unions and the Dutch side of the company by raising its stake, or risk a Franco-Italian row by turning its back on its partner in the Skyteam alliance of airlines.

Any extra investment could be a hard sell with the Franco-Dutch firm's shareholders and workers, as it is in the midst of cutting costs and jobs in a bid to bring down its own debts.

But the company will also be keen to protect the value of its existing investment and maintain access to Europe's fourth-largest travel market.

Italian transport minister Maurizio Lupi raised the stakes hours ahead of the meeting on Monday by saying Italy would not oppose an increase in Air France-KLM's stake to 50 percent, effectively opening the door to foreign control.

"I expect that Air France will strongly reaffirm that Alitalia is a strategic asset for Air France, and therefore that there will be a strengthening of Air France's role," he said on the sidelines of a conference in Milan.

"We ask that Air France does not consider Alitalia and (Rome airport) Fiumicino as an appendix, but a strategic asset for the development of European air transport."

Lupi is a political ally of former Italian prime minister Silvio Berlusconi who opposed proposals to have Air France-KLM take control of Alitalia in 2008, and instead asked a group of Italian investors to take over the loss-making carrier.

POLITICALLY SENSITIVE

Alitalia has moved aggressively to cut costs in recent years, but remains severely hampered by low-cost competition in its European markets, poor demand on its domestic routes due to Italy's debt crisis and the rise of high-speed trains, as well as insufficient capital to invest in long-haul fleets.

Earlier this year, Air France-KLM participated in its share of a 150 million euro shareholder loan to keep Alitalia afloat.

Chief Executive Alexandre de Juniac pledged in July not to put up more money without tough conditions.

"In the past few weeks the management of Air France-KLM have been more open towards an increase in the stake rather than just taking part in a capital increase," a union source briefed on the discussions said, asking not to be named.

Air France-KLM declined comment.

The decision is seen as politically sensitive after Air France, 19 percent owned by the French state, announced 2,800 further job cuts last week, prompting a call for new strikes.

A banking source, however, said an increase in the stake was the least likely option. Others said the management of the Dutch side of the operation, which merged with Air France to create Air France-KLM in 2004, is particularly reluctant to back it.

"It is impossible in the current context," the source said. "The only question to ask right now is whether Air France-KLM wants to see its stake diluted."

Jitters over the decision pushed Air France-KLM shares down 1.7 percent to 6.86 euros on Monday, with the decline accelerating after the Italian minister's call for support.

"Air France-KLM wants to protect its franchise but the priority is to deliver on its plans to reduce debts," said airlines analyst Stephen Furlong at Davy Research in Dublin.

"Exposure to Alitalia has always been fraught with challenges and it would be surprising if Air France-KLM agreed to increase their stake."
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...98M0LF20130923
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Old September 24th, 2013, 05:35 PM   #525
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If the full takeover happens the result could be something like what LH has done with Austrian. Id say Etihad would be a better option.
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Old September 24th, 2013, 08:19 PM   #526
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedro EM View Post
If the full takeover happens the result could be something like what LH has done with Austrian. Id say Etihad would be a better option.
And thats a bad thing how? Austrian is making profits and flies long haul, even to Tokyo.
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Old September 25th, 2013, 12:28 PM   #527
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedro EM View Post
If the full takeover happens the result could be something like what LH has done with Austrian. Id say Etihad would be a better option.
I would prefer Etihad me too but this is not possible due to European regulations.
The best solution would not be the acquisition by Air France, but the failure of Alitalia.
Air France would become Alitalia an airline focused mainly on short/medium range and carry intercontinental passengers from all over Italy in the hubs of CDG and AMS; in a market where low cost airlines are the undisputed leaders Alitalia wouldn't have future.

The planes of AZ are almost all of Carlo Toto (ex chief of Air One) and his son owns an airline (Livingstone) then the possible replacement of Alitalia would be there.

Not only, a failure of Alitalia could also be an opportunity to replace the dysfunctional Italian airport system starting from Milan
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Old September 25th, 2013, 02:24 PM   #528
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krnboy1009 View Post
And thats a bad thing how? Austrian is making profits and flies long haul, even to Tokyo.

Thats true but their fleet was shrunk fairly comprehensively wasn't it?
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Old September 25th, 2013, 02:34 PM   #529
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gino lo spazzino View Post
I would prefer Etihad me too but this is not possible due to European regulations.
The best solution would not be the acquisition by Air France, but the failure of Alitalia.
Air France would become Alitalia an airline focused mainly on short/medium range and carry intercontinental passengers from all over Italy in the hubs of CDG and AMS; in a market where low cost airlines are the undisputed leaders Alitalia wouldn't have future.

The planes of AZ are almost all of Carlo Toto (ex chief of Air One) and his son owns an airline (Livingstone) then the possible replacement of Alitalia would be there.

Not only, a failure of Alitalia could also be an opportunity to replace the dysfunctional Italian airport system starting from Milan
But Etihad can buy 49% of shares and run them like they do with Air Berlin.

It is clear AF/KL will simply use AZ's Airbus and Embraers to ferry connecting passangers to the twin hubs of AMS and CDG. They'd even transfer some of AZ's own 777s and A330s to their fleets which shouldn't be difficult as they already operate the same type and could use them for expansion from there.

I didn't know Livingstone's owner was Carlo Toto's son but Livingstone is a charter airline.

Now solving the Italian airport system is another challange.
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Old September 25th, 2013, 03:32 PM   #530
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedro EM View Post
But Etihad can buy 49% of shares and run them like they do with Air Berlin.
True, but have 49% with the remaining 51% in the hands of the French and other associates you understand that Etihad could not operate as they would like and then would mean have thrown the money out the window
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedro EM View Post
It is clear AF/KL will simply use AZ's Airbus and Embraers to ferry connecting passangers to the twin hubs of AMS and CDG. They'd even transfer some of AZ's own 777s and A330s to their fleets which shouldn't be difficult as they already operate the same type and could use them for expansion from there.
In fact, but you understand that this solution for a country like Italy is not feasible, our economy needs a direct connection with all the world, and frankly, i find it unacceptable that the intercontinental traffic of the eighth world economy power should pass through France or the Netherlands (and is one of the many reasons why Italy has lost a lot in terms of competitiveness). For this reason i think that the best solution would be do fail Alitalia and put the new airline in a position to operate in an optimal way (for example, by closing Linate in order to exploit the full potential of Malpensa and make a greater integration between high-speed train and plane as already happens in Germany and France) And in addition the State not risks take charge of its debts, as happened in 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedro EM View Post
I didn't know Livingstone's owner was Carlo Toto's son but Livingstone is a charter airline.
Was purchased last year by Toto and recently they have applied to operate scheduled flights from MXP, the charter sector in Italy is in great crisis.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedro EM View Post
Now solving the Italian airport system is another challange.
You have reason....
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Last edited by gino lo spazzino; September 25th, 2013 at 03:39 PM.
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Old September 25th, 2013, 04:17 PM   #531
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gino lo spazzino View Post
True, but have 49% with the remaining 51% in the hands of the French and other associates you understand that Etihad could not operate as they would like and then would mean have thrown the money out the window:
The other 51% could be bought via some holding company and EY has control through the backdoor.


Quote:
Originally Posted by gino lo spazzino View Post
In fact, but you understand that this solution for a country like Italy is not feasible, our economy needs a direct connection with all the world, and frankly, i find it unacceptable that the intercontinental traffic of the eighth world economy power should pass through France or the Netherlands (and is one of the many reasons why Italy has lost a lot in terms of competitiveness).
Italy deserves global connection I entirely agree.


Quote:
Originally Posted by gino lo spazzino View Post
For this reason i think that the best solution would be do fail Alitalia and put the new airline in a position to operate in an optimal way (for example, by closing Linate in order to exploit the full potential of Malpensa and make a greater integration between high-speed train and plane as already happens in Germany and France).
Linate wont be closed as there's pressure to keep it open. I also agree but it will take time to build such.

And in addition the State not risks take charge of its debts, as happened in 2008 Was purchased last year by Toto and recently they have applied to operate scheduled flights from MXP, the charter sector in Italy is in great crisis. You have reason....[/QUOTE]

There's several cities in Northern Italy all with international airports. I cant see any of them being closed.
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Old September 26th, 2013, 12:14 AM   #532
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedro EM View Post
The other 51% could be bought via some holding company and EY has control through the backdoor.
Very true, but this would involve a very substantial investment by Etihad and i do not think that they have willing to do so after shopping in Jet Airways and Air Berlin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedro EM View Post
Italy deserves global connection I entirely agree.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedro EM View Post
Linate wont be closed as there's pressure to keep it open. I also agree but it will take time to build such.
Things are finally changed, no one says that Linate is not a problem for Malpensa and the Lombardy Region has submitted a formal request of reduction of Linate airport to the Ministry of Transport.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedro EM View Post
There's several cities in Northern Italy all with international airports. I cant see any of them being closed.
Unfortunately that of have so many airports in Northern Italy is the direct consequence of the failed merger between Alitalia and KLM that have prevented Alitalia to be able to become a major airline to serve Italy and more of this contribute many other factors that i'm not here to cite you because are many (too many).
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Old September 26th, 2013, 02:32 PM   #533
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gino lo spazzino View Post
Very true, but this would involve a very substantial investment by Etihad and i do not think that they have willing to do so after shopping in Jet Airways and Air Berlin.
Well if they really do want a dig at the TATL market then this is a good chance. Dont forget they also bought JAT/Air Serbia.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gino lo spazzino View Post


.


Quote:
Originally Posted by gino lo spazzino View Post
Things are finally changed, no one says that Linate is not a problem for Malpensa and the Lombardy Region has submitted a formal request of reduction of Linate airport to the Ministry of Transport.
That I wasn't aware of.



Quote:
Originally Posted by gino lo spazzino View Post
Unfortunately that of have so many airports in Northern Italy is the direct consequence of the failed merger between Alitalia and KLM that have prevented Alitalia to be able to become a major airline to serve Italy and more of this contribute many other factors that i'm not here to cite you because are many (too many).
That theres too many I wouldn't say is a direct consequence of that. It is more to do with the rise of airlines like EZY, FR, etal. who often have agreements of some sort with the regional governments/tourist boards/ local businesses etc of the areas such airlines started direct service to. This is effectively what killed short-haul profits of AZ and indeed most European legacy carriers. This is not only an Italian problem. Only the fact that so many airports are there perhaps is.
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Old October 8th, 2013, 05:48 PM   #534
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According to this article Alitalia has 15 Days Left To Avoid Liquidation:

http://www.corriere.it/economia/13_o...-2ff2-11e3-8faf-8c5138a2071d.shtml

Another however suggests as little as 5 days:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...0HY14D20131008

Whatever it is the airline needs an emergency cash injection of around 500 Million Euros.
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Old October 9th, 2013, 03:42 AM   #535
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedro EM View Post
According to this article Alitalia has 15 Days Left To Avoid Liquidation:

http://www.corriere.it/economia/13_o...-2ff2-11e3-8faf-8c5138a2071d.shtml

Another however suggests as little as 5 days:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...0HY14D20131008

Whatever it is the airline needs an emergency cash injection of around 500 Million Euros.
The second hypothesis that you have cited is more likely: the president of ENI said that Alitalia will be refuel until 12 October.
From Saturday, if there will be no agreement, ENI will not refuel more Alitalia and the planes will remain grounded.

To find the money the first hypothesis was a public intervention by Cassa Depositi e Prestiti but the latter, fortunately, refused, then the second hypothesis was a intervention by Trenitalia but even this, as Air France, poses unacceptable conditions.
Last, today, our politicians have hypothesized the third terrible solution (the absolute worst): a direct intervention of the government with the purchase of 16% of AZ.

All three hypotheses are prohibited by the European Union as they would be State aid

In a few words, the roads are two: the sale to Air France or the bankrupt (i prefer the bankrupt).
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Old October 9th, 2013, 02:49 PM   #536
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gino lo spazzino View Post
The second hypothesis that you have cited is more likely: the president of ENI said that Alitalia will be refuel until 12 October.
From Saturday, if there will be no agreement, ENI will not refuel more Alitalia and the planes will remain grounded.
Thats what I heard too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gino lo spazzino View Post
To find the money the first hypothesis was a public intervention by Cassa Depositi e Prestiti but the latter, fortunately, refused, then the second hypothesis was a intervention by Trenitalia but even this, as Air France, poses unacceptable conditions.
Last, today, our politicians have hypothesized the third terrible solution (the absolute worst): a direct intervention of the government with the purchase of 16% of AZ


All three hypotheses are prohibited by the European Union as they would be State aid.
In different guises but in reality they mean the same thing- a partial renationalisation of AZ- it has happened in other countries without problems but the EU doesn't allow it- well they can maybe request a temporary waiver/exmption from this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gino lo spazzino View Post
In a few words, the roads are two: the sale to Air France or the bankrupt (i prefer the bankrupt).
The sale to Air France doesn't look too bad thinking about it.
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Old October 11th, 2013, 03:04 AM   #537
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Looks like the Italian govt are seeking to bail out the airline using Post Office funds.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-24486214

Alitalia to get aid from Italy's state postal service

The airline went bankrupt before - in 2008

Italy's government did not say how much Poste SpA, the Italian postal service, would be investing.

The airline has said it needs to raise 455m euros (£385.2m) to stay afloat.

Alitalia filed for bankruptcy in August, as high staff costs, industrial relations issues and surging oil prices further dented its finances.

On Thursday the office of the Italian Prime Minister Enrico Letta said: "The government values Alitalia as a strategic asset for the country".

Analysts estimate that Poste may inject up to 100m euros into the airline.

Many have suggested that a merger with Air France-KLM is the most likely solution to Alitalia's woes.

However, the French group, which owns 25% of the airline, has not yet said if it is considering that option.

Alitalia went bankrupt in 2008, and was re-launched in 2009.
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Old October 11th, 2013, 02:49 PM   #538
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The Italian "Post Office" is such a joke that it is an insult for Alitalia to go in bed with them. Their management makes Alitalia look like it has world class management. As another poster said simply google "disservizio postale".

In addition Poste Italiane runs a small charter/cargo airline called Mistral Air which uses 25 year old Boeing 737s. Now will those be integrated into AZ's fleet?? Why not bring back the MD80s and the DC-9s whilst we're at it.
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Old October 11th, 2013, 06:18 PM   #539
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No comment....
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Old October 11th, 2013, 07:13 PM   #540
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Has anyone posted a latest long-haul flight for Alitalia...

Alitalia will launch a new long-haul flight from Venice to Tokyo/Narita, making it the first such flight to Asia from the famed Canal City. It will be operated twice a week on board B777-200ER from 2 April 2014. As a result, its existing services between Tokyo, Rome, and Milan will be adjusted accordingly from 30 March 2014. Details and schedules:

Venice–Tokyo/Narita:
AZ788 VCE1420 – 0940+1NRT 772 46
AZ789 NRT1225 – 1805VCE 772 35

Milan/Malpensa–Tokyo/Narita: service increases from 4 to 5 weekly.
AZ786 MXP1400 – 0850+1NRT 772 x46
AZ787 NRT1225 – 1755MXP 772 x35

Rome/Fiumicino–Tokyo/Narita: service reduces from 10 to 7 weekly.
AZ784 FCO1515 – 1025+1NRT 772 D
AZ785 NRT1315 – 1900FCO 772 D

Source
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