Tamilnadu Economy Thread

[kannan infratech]

Please view my comments objectively. These are based on my practical experience.

Originally Posted by kongutamizhan

X-posting my reply to Kannan from Chennai Economy

----------------------------------------------------

Kannan,

I am completely aware of RE skyrocketing in CBE. That is a curse in India. Our real estate prices soars on paper projects. Pune did well to contain on this account till they developed. Same goes to Gujarat.

Coimbatore RE prices were / are always high not only because of the hype on new developments. I find that there is no desperation to sell off land / property in CBE and the owners are willing to wait for more time.

The Govt can release Poromboke lands for development to control prices but in TN, it does not happen - even in other cities / towns.

Having said that, apart from real estate there few more reasons that killed CBE growth effectively, couple of them state and central government policy issues from the past and few more issues continues to plague even now

From the Past

• DMK government's softness for minorities, subsequent bomb blast.
  
  Bomb Blast put off growth by a few years, but it is nothing to do with the Govt. One can blame the state government only for the delay in court proceedings and related matters
  
• This is big!! When BJP's NDA government decided to impose tax on Textile / Handloom industries. Textiles exports were backbone of India, accounted to more than 40% of exports. More than half of it were from CBE / Tiruppur belt. Exports were comparable to that of Software exprorts from TN (in-fact more) at that time.
  
  Textile Policy & that too Cotton Policy in particular have been mismanaged for the past 3 decades. A senior & very important Central minister from TN did not help even when he was / is holding all relevant ministries. He also helped his friends in Textile business in other states and in the process indirectly killed the industry in TN
  
  I advocate the idea of local industrial leaders influencing the Govt policies through associations like CII, ASSOCHAM, FICCI etc. When it comes to industry / people welfare, all political parties from the state should come together to achieve.
  
  But the decline in Textiles industry is happening all over India and CBE belt depends more on that. Probably CBE should develop a basket of core industrial developments based on its strengths.
  
  IT or ITES may not be the best suitable for CBE in spite of the fact that CBE region can supply more engineers. Many of them prefer Bangalore or other cities due to better exposure
  
  When IT got tax incentives, heavy tax was imposed on Handloom sector Why?? That effectively closed 13 out of 18 mills in CBE and sealed the fate of thousands of employees. After agriculture textiles / handlooms employ highest number of people in India.
  
  I am currently working on a revival project but the response is lukewarm even from the public. NTC is incompetent to run the mills. CBE mills are more looked as RE land banks now.
  
  Even Public do not promote use of Handlooms / local materials except in high end circles.
  
  Govt (Or Political Parties) can promote only in the way they know - giving free Dhotis & sarees.
  
  CBE is known for innovation and the locals can promote the locally made goods popular by branding etc. CII CBE Chapter can help.
  
  Neither Central government nor state government cared 2 hoots about it. Also note that handloom / textile sector is closely and indirectly tied to agri and creates Agricultural jobs too.
  
  I understand that even traditional Agri is going through tough phase due to non availability of labor. Innovation in Agri based on the modern needs can also be looked into

From the Present

• Power cuts during last 5 years, effectively sealed and cut into profits of SSI's
  
  Curse on TN. Poor policies of SGs. But same situation all over TN. CBE gets affected more
  
• Uncontrolled RE prices like you mentioned
  
• Delay in Tidel park
  TIDEL Park is just a building. I rate TCS facility or KGISL facility better.
  
• Lack of physical infrastructure (especially roads)
  All infra have to be improved based on the modern needs.

How many of you here are aware that when Walmart / Bharthi was looking to setup captive IT / ITES in India and they considered CBE as a probable location. Of-course CBE didn't make it to final probables list and the reason power, government unable to give a solid completion date for the park and the panel was not impressed with city's roads around that area. How do I know?? I am an ex-employee for WM
I think CBE should aim for KPOs and not the normal BPOs. It is value added services which will suit CBE - in electrical, auto, textile, agricultural etc

This is just the case of how government initiatives would have helped CBE.
Gone are those days where we depended totally on Govt for all things. Now we have to make thins happen. Govt will listen if it is conveyed through proper channels

I can go on with how they (almost) ruined Sivakasi which is called as Little Japan of India. Also I have stories to share about how we killed tea industries / UPASI in Valparai / Nilgiris.

I was also part of the initiative wrt Sivakasi. My native place Srivilliputtur is part of the cluster. I do not know much about tea / coffee induatry. But local initiatives are the must


CBE proved to the world with SIRU THULI.

Anyways for the last time I am replying on CBE economy in this thread (no brought up by me for sure). We can continue this discussion on TN economy or CBE thread if you want.

Like you said if L & T is really coming up soon, it's a good news. I for one definitely don't want CBE to be completely dependent on IT.

I am also cross posting it on TN economy thread where we can continue further if any of you have questions / comments

[vs007]

Originally Posted by kongutamizhan

....[*]Uncontrolled RE prices like you mentioned[*]Delay in Tidel park[*]Lack of physical infrastructure (especially roads)[/LIST]

The mere announcement of Tidel Park in early 2000s without any ground action led to explosive speculative prices making even acquisition of few acres of land for Tidel Park expensive and finally it almost got executed only now when Pune zipped us by.

[Arasu]

The government can't be directly blamed for the run away inflaiton of RE prices. What the governments are guilty of is making the cost of the RE transactions dear with phenomenal stamp duty, and registration expenses. If I can remember correctly, the stamp duty alone is around 12-13% of the cost of purchase. This leads to the buyers paying in black to cut down on the stamp duty. The government will do well if it can bring down this cost of buying drastically. What service do they really do to charge 13%? I am baffled.

On top of it, after the purchase, you would have to face the RE mafia in many cities. Add to that the lack of any roads, electricity and play ground, parks, etc makes life miserable.

There is an immediate need to prosecute violations of RE guidelines vehemently. Otherwise, we will continue be one of the worst third world nation despite all the promise and potential to join the ranks of the first world.

[kongutamizhan]

Originally Posted by kannan infratech

Coimbatore RE prices were / are always high not only because of the hype on new developments. I find that there is no desperation to sell off land / property in CBE and the owners are willing to wait for more time.

Prior to 2004 CBE Real estate market was over or under performing just like any other Indian market. That's different from skyrocketing prices in CBE post 2004.

• A 1100 sq ft upscale apartment in Ramnagar was up for grabs for 13 lacs in 1997/98 prior to Bomb blast. In the same area another upscale apartment around 1050 sq.ft was available for 11.5 lacks post Bomb blast. Hope you are aware about Ram Nagar area:-)
  
• A single family villa community built by Mayflower Associates around 1000 - 1200 sq ft were sold for 20-22 lacs in Race course area which was again a premium area within CBE.
  
• A single family villa gated community built by Marutham in SB colony within the city limits for around 1500- 1700 sq ft was going for 18-20 lacs in 2003
  
• Another one at Ramanathapuram by Mayflower in 2003-2004 was around 20 lacs.

During the same period if one has choosen to purchase RE in Koundampalayam, Vadavalli, Thudiyalur etc., the prices were completely reasonable and well within affordable range (even single family / individual homes). In fact post bomb-blast the RE took a dip till 2003 / 04 (that's when it started recovering a bit). Post 2004 it grew exponentially without any justification. I own homes at 2 of the above projects that I mentioned.

Yes we prefer individual homes compared to apartments and I don't understand what's your point there. I personally prefer individual home whether I buy it in CBE or Chennai or here in USA. I am sure everyone would if they could afford.

Originally Posted by kannan infratech

Bomb Blast put off growth by a few years, but it is nothing to do with the Govt. One can blame the state government only for the delay in court proceedings and related matters

Says who? The communal tensions of late 1997 and bomb blast are direct results of DMK government's minority appeasement.

Originally Posted by kannan infratech

Textile Policy & that too Cotton Policy in particular have been mismanaged for the past 3 decades. A senior & very important Central minister from TN did not help even when he was / is holding all relevant ministries. He also helped his friends in Textile business in other states and in the process indirectly killed the industry in TN

I advocate the idea of local industrial leaders influencing the Govt policies through associations like CII, ASSOCHAM, FICCI etc. When it comes to industry / people welfare, all political parties from the state should come together to achieve.

Will come back to it later. Deserves a lengthy, seperate discussion. I also want to use my reply and our discussion on this to pave way for healthier discussion on swadesi economics (and also to educate the crowd that thinks we could improve only with foreign investments). Since this point is too important I don't want this to lose its weightage along with my reply for rest of the points in this post. Having said that I agree completely with your assessment on second paragraph.

Originally Posted by kannan infratech

All infra have to be improved based on the modern needs

But there are lots of very basic facilities that were lacking. Have you seen MTP road, NSR Road, DB Road or Trichy road during 2000 - 2004? Have you seen the conditions on Ganapathy area during that time? An aspiring metro that contributes to the ex-chequer of the government much above average compared to a Tier II city deserved more. Total lack-lusture part on the government.

They let the local economy die, but gave sops to automobile and IT sector which benefited folks around Chennai. Caused huge migration to Chennai from CBE / Nilgiris / Tirupur area (Thank god Sivakasi almost escaped despite our TN government's bad vision. Hats off to people and enterprenurs of Sivakasi, this again deserves a seperate discussion, an inspirational success story for people of TN and our forumers). Never before in history of TN (even during late 1990's) there were such huge gap between Chennai and western TN (CBE / Tiruppur / Nilgiris). But these negligance and killing of local economy forced many blue collar workers doing high value jobs from textile sectors and tea industry take up low value / coolie and construction jobs in Chennai, Bangalore and other metros.

While our metros did this to our non-metro labour forces in western TN, it eroded Southern TN's natural wealth. South TN is rich in minerals and sand. The Manal Kollai or Manal mafia eroded the wealth of south TN to feed construction in our metros including Chennai. I plead our Chennai forummers to look at their cost of development from a different perspective. Many forumers in Chennai just don't realize at what cost they are getting all those developments. Again I have nothing against Chennai in particular. I am trying hard in my 1050+ posts here to make people realize how much our government's policies in projecting / promoting metros are killing the rest. Even if my postings and rants here makes one forummer from Chennai take a fresh perspective on the need for pan-TN growth I consider my job done.

Originally Posted by kannan infratech

CBE proved to the world with SIRU THULI.

Yes again the case of local people taking up what government should have done. (But you can't use this excuse for water, sanitation, roads. Those are government's job). Hats off to people like Vanitha Mohan, Col. Sridharan and pricol executives who did lots of ground work for this. I have contributed financially whenever I can for this project. Traditionally most of the development initiatives within CBE are from its own citizens and not government. People like G.D Naidu, Rathina sababathy etc., were visionaries for the city. No intention to bring up caste here, CBE owe its thanks to its local enterprenurs particularly its Naidu and Gounder community for the city's self-growth. I am a non-gounder / non-naidu CBE-ian saying it I am confident that the city can bounce back without much government initiatives. All we want is them to provide basic infrastructure needed for the bounce to happen and not mess around with existing local economy with their policies and powercuts. Despite all these CBE did pick up Medical Transcriptioning and managed keep its GDP #'s constantly high. However the service sector is not enough to compensate job losses in Textile sector.

The CBE / Tiruppur belt, Sivakasi, Nilgiris etc., were classic examples for how swadesi economics could flourish. Post globalization there was a lobby that believed that we can't grow or progress without foreign investments. That lobby combined with government's policies on textile and handlooms and power-cuts combined with the bomb blast only helped the anti-swadesi lobby thrive

[Stature]

Originally Posted by kongutamizhan

Prior to 2004 CBE Real estate market was over or under performing just like any other Indian market. That's different from skyrocketing prices in CBE post 2004.

• A 1100 sq ft upscale apartment in Ramnagar was up for grabs for 13 lacs in 1997/98 prior to Bomb blast. In the same area another upscale apartment around 1050 sq.ft was available for 11.5 lacks post Bomb blast. Hope you are aware about Ram Nagar area:-)
  
• A single family villa community built by Mayflower Associates around 1000 - 1200 sq ft were sold for 20-22 lacs in Race course area which was again a premium area within CBE.
  
• A single family villa gated community built by Marutham in SB colony within the city limits for around 1500- 1700 sq ft was going for 18-20 lacs in 2003
  
• Another one at Ramanathapuram by Mayflower in 2003-2004 was around 20 lacs.

During the same period if one has choosen to purchase RE in Koundampalayam, Vadavalli, Thudiyalur etc., the prices were completely reasonable and well within affordable range (even single family / individual homes). In fact post bomb-blast the RE took a dip till 2003 / 04 (that's when it started recovering a bit). Post 2004 it grew exponentially without any justification. I own homes at 2 of the above projects that I mentioned.

Yes we prefer individual homes compared to apartments and I don't understand what's your point there. I personally prefer individual home whether I buy it in CBE or Chennai or here in USA. I am sure everyone would if they could afford.




Says who? The communal tensions of late 1997 and bomb blast are direct results of DMK government's minority appeasement.



Will come back to it later. Deserves a lengthy, seperate discussion. I also want to use my reply and our discussion on this to pave way for healthier discussion on swadesi economics (and also to educate the crowd that thinks we could improve only with foreign investments). Since this point is too important I don't want this to lose its weightage along with my reply for rest of the points in this post. Having said that I agree completely with your assessment on second paragraph.




But there are lots of very basic facilities that were lacking. Have you seen MTP road, NSR Road, DB Road or Trichy road during 2000 - 2004? Have you seen the conditions on Ganapathy area during that time? An aspiring metro that contributes to the ex-chequer of the government much above average compared to a Tier II city deserved more. Total lack-lusture part on the government.

They let the local economy die, but gave sops to automobile and IT sector which benefited folks around Chennai. Caused huge migration to Chennai from CBE / Nilgiris / Tirupur area (Thank god Sivakasi almost escaped despite our TN government's bad vision. Hats off to people and enterprenurs of Sivakasi, this again deserves a seperate discussion, an inspirational success story for people of TN and our forumers). Never before in history of TN (even during late 1990's) there were such huge gap between Chennai and western TN (CBE / Tiruppur / Nilgiris). But these negligance and killing of local economy forced many blue collar workers doing high value jobs from textile sectors and tea industry take up low value / coolie and construction jobs in Chennai, Bangalore and other metros.

While our metros did this to our non-metro labour forces in western TN, it eroded Southern TN's natural wealth. South TN is rich in minerals and sand. The Manal Kollai or Manal mafia eroded the wealth of south TN to feed construction in our metros including Chennai. I plead our Chennai forummers to look at their cost of development from a different perspective. Many forumers in Chennai just don't realize at what cost they are getting all those developments. Again I have nothing against Chennai in particular. I am trying hard in my 1050+ posts here to make people realize how much our government's policies in projecting / promoting metros are killing the rest. Even if my postings and rants here makes one forummer from Chennai take a fresh perspective on the need for pan-TN growth I consider my job done.





Yes again the case of local people taking up what government should have done. (But you can't use this excuse for water, sanitation, roads. Those are government's job). Hats off to people like Vanitha Mohan, Col. Sridharan and pricol executives who did lots of ground work for this. I have contributed financially whenever I can for this project. Traditionally most of the development initiatives within CBE are from its own citizens and not government. People like G.D Naidu, Rathina sababathy etc., were visionaries for the city. No intention to bring up caste here, CBE owe its thanks to its local enterprenurs particularly its Naidu and Gounder community for the city's self-growth. I am a non-gounder / non-naidu CBE-ian saying it I am confident that the city can bounce back without much government initiatives. All we want is them to provide basic infrastructure needed for the bounce to happen and not mess around with existing local economy with their policies and powercuts. Despite all these CBE did pick up Medical Transcriptioning and managed keep its GDP #'s constantly high. However the service sector is not enough to compensate job losses in Textile sector.

The CBE / Tiruppur belt, Sivakasi, Nilgiris etc., were classic examples for how swadesi economics could flourish. Post globalization there was a lobby that believed that we can't grow or progress without foreign investments. That lobby combined with government's policies on textile and handlooms and power-cuts combined with the bomb blast only helped the anti-swadesi lobby thrive

Bomb blasts due to TN govt's minority appeasement?
Do we need a discussion on chronology of events leading to communal tension in CBM. People like KT also played a large role in instigating people then. He is trying the same on this forum now.
This forum is for discussing developments. Not for posting hate messages. If it this is not stopped now, then others be given chance to reply.

[murlee]

KT u better become CM and stop all this!!!

[Seyoan]

Says who? The communal tensions of late 1997 and bomb blast are direct results of DMK government's minority appeasement.

So why did a bomb blast not happen since 2006 in spite of DMK back in rule. As DMK stopped minority appeasement ?

Fortunately no other mosque was demolished in 2002 else we may have had few more blast in peace loving TN in spite of people like leaving the soil.

They let the local economy die, but gave sops to automobile and IT sector which benefited folks around Chennai.

Now I thoroughly why you support Amma, She does not develop any part of the state. Whether I get or not my neighbor should not get. Nice mentality Bro. I have never seen this much Jealousy/Hatred towards other city.

I am confident that the city can bounce back without much government initiatives.

Then stop complaining about government.

All we want is them to provide basic infrastructure needed for the bounce to happen and not mess around with existing local economy with their policies and powercuts.

I got NEWS for you, ever one in TN/India/any country wants just that

[Chennai lover]

http://www.cato.org/economic-freedom...India-2011.pdf

Nice compilation of data and in depth analysis. Interesting read.

[kongutamizhan]

Originally Posted by Stature

Bomb blasts due to TN govt's minority appeasement?
Do we need a discussion on chronology of events leading to communal tension in CBM. People like KT also played a large role in instigating people then. He is trying the same on this forum now.
This forum is for discussing developments. Not for posting hate messages. If it this is not stopped now, then others be given chance to reply.

These posts of yours (considering that these are the only posts over years) speaks about yourself. BTW what's your primary ID in this forum?

Here is how you contributed to development here in the forum. Pot calling the kettle black

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...postcount=5976
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...postcount=5119
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...postcount=5110
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...postcount=5104

[venkatm]

I fully support KT on this. Madani was let away by weakening the case. You just have to go to coastal parts of the southern states to see how much inroads insiduous Wahhabi Islam has made. People have dropped local language, customs, dresses and you feel you are in some Arab country. I have started seeing the same pattern even in areas like Krishnagiri and Denkanikottai now. Those who fail to see the warning signs are just plain stupid. Thatha and other psuedo's in politics have no qualms in mixing with mullahs and shady missionaries aka land grabbers or education mafia but routinely insult hindus and their practices.

[kannan infratech]

@ Konguthamizhan:
Please understand that most of us share your concern for the development of CBE region. Not only CBE but also Madurai, Trichy & other parts of TN.

Chennai being the capital city has certain advantages in TN. Similarly Delhi or Mumbai at All India Level. But Bangalore beat all others in IT.

How Hosur was earlier and now? How Tada was earlier?

Coimbatore should develop on those areas where it has strengths. Many of us relate development with only IT since it is more visible & the huge high paying job market.

Coimbatore had a strong Agri economy but things are changing. Traditional Textile industry is in trouble all over India.

I see more potential in electrical, auto, fabrication etc. Why L&T chose Coimbatore over many other locations ? It is much much more than what a Govt in TN can do.

CBE has great & committed sons of soil like you. Please work for the development in whatever way you can.

Depending on Govt's initiatives - will not take CBE anywhere. Any politician will come around to help you if he / she sees an opportunity to make money. Use them judiciously for CBE development.

[kongutamizhan]

Can you please point out any reference to L & T's plans in CBE? Would like to read more details about it.

[saysenthil]

Originally Posted by Chennai lover

http://www.cato.org/economic-freedom...India-2011.pdf

Nice compilation of data and in depth analysis. Interesting read.

Thank you dude!! That was a very good find!!

[Seyoan]

Originally Posted by venkatm

People have dropped local language, customs, dresses and you feel you are in some Arab country. I have started seeing the same pattern even in areas like Krishnagiri and Denkanikottai now.

What language they speak or what dress they wear is their prerogative, why do you to interfere there?

Would you go to sowcarpet and insist that people speak in Tamil and wear Veshti etc?

but routinely insult hindus and their practices

Agree with you completely, a true atheist/agnostic should be truly agnostic in their criticism of religions, I have not seen any *Ks bad mouthing religions other than Hinduism.

[gtmashok]

Originally Posted by Seyoan

What language they speak or what dress they wear is their prerogative, why do you to interfere there?

Would you go to sowcarpet and insist that people speak in Tamil and wear Veshti etc?




Agree with you completely, a true atheist/agnostic should be truly agnostic in their criticism of religions, I have not seen any *Ks bad mouthing religions other than Hinduism.

And when leaders like Advani (not that I support him or his party) or Modi (whom I admire for development) criticize the so-called secular parties on this issue, they get branded by the ever pseudo-secular media as 'communal'

Anyway, wanted to get that out of my chest. Let's try to get back to TN economy...

[ilikemadurai]

Overall Tamil Nadu is in 3rd position, but in some parameters it is in 7th, 10th positions.

[ilikemadurai]

[murlee]

Wow!! TN is not doing a bad job at all!! especially impressed by the development in infrastructure! Well done..

[gtmashok]

Originally Posted by murlee

Wow!! TN is not doing a bad job at all!! especially impressed by the development in infrastructure! Well done..

But the 6% GSDP growth rate can be improved. I am surprised that 90% of TN's villages have electricity access, given the huge number of power cuts!

[TShyam]

Originally Posted by gtmashok

But the 6% GSDP growth rate can be improved.

Some of the numbers in that survey doesnt look convincing. Lot of other surveys put TN's GSDP growth in the period 06-10 at anywhere between 7-8%.

Another example, it says 75% of the children above age 10 complete primary education in only 6 states and UT's and TN is not one of them. This is totally false. TN achieved universal primary school education way back in 2002. Infact it is on its way to achieve universal secondary school education. Just look at the number of students taking 10th exam this year - it is 11 lacs. Look at the 0-6 population of TN from the census - 69 lacs which means roughly 11.5 lacs kids per year.

This shows that atleast 95% (not 75%) of kids go on to finish 10th (not primary education) in TN. This is one glaring example of error in that report.

However broadly speaking, this report is quite fair if you leave out the minute details.

I am surprised that 90% of TN's villages have electricity access, given the huge number of power cuts!

Lack of power has nothing to do with electricity access. It means 90% of homes have current connection. It is about the infrastructure in place.