Whis isn't the North London Line on te Tube?

[somersetchris]

Flare, stop feeding the troll

[Romania1]

Originally Posted by flare

Swiss Cottage is not a district! St John's Wood is covering the majority of NW8 and happens to be very well served by links to Hampstead via the 46.

St.John's Wood is not a district then, in your logic. Swiss Cottage and St.John's Wood both have Tube stations. The 46 bus is slow and cumbersome and lumbering transit. A metro should get people around the network, easily, not just into the centre and back.

The North London Line with interchange stations where it crosses lines, can act as a mechanism for easy change across North London.

If you think a rapid-transit network (I presume you refer to rail and tube on this) should be able to cover all potential destinations then you are deluded.

Ideally it should. But interchange station is the key to getting people around. Otherwise it is commuter-rail with radial lines into the centre and back out.

To say that the north London line should serve this market is ludicrous as it does not go to either St.Johns Wood or Hampstead. (Hampstead Heath station is not Hampstead Village)

Read back on the thread.

[flare]

Originally Posted by Romania1

The 46 bus is slow and cumbersome and lumbering transit.

It's a suprsingly effecient little service actually. Fitz Avenue is pretty traffic free so good journey times. The length of the route means some issues with frequency.

So in your fantasy NLL what would be the journey option for someone travelling from St John's Wood High St to Hampstead High St?

[Romania1]

Originally Posted by flare

It's a suprsingly effecient little service actually. Fitz Avenue is pretty traffic free so good journey times. The length of the route means some issues with frequency.

So in your fantasy NLL what would be the journey option for someone travelling from St John's Wood High St to Hampstead High St?

You have a facination about St.John's Wood. The point which eluded you, is that anyone should in north London on say on the Jubilee Line can jump on a cross north London line and get to the Northern Line easily, rather than run into the centre and out again. This makes the outer northern part more of a metro, which it is not. Only the centre of London is a metro where people use LU to jump to the next district, which may be north, south, east and west.

[flare]

Originally Posted by Romania1

You have a facination about St.John's Wood. The point which eluded you, is that anyone in north London on the Jubille line can jump on a cross north London line and get to the Northern Line easily, rather than run into the centre and out again. This makes the outer northern part more of a metro, which it is not. Only the centre of London is a metro where peopel use LU to jump to the next district, which may be north, south, east and west.

I like St Johns Wood, lovely part of London but you were the one that started off by talking about a journey from St Johns Wood to Hampstead... I'm just interested to hear your suggested infrastructure/route which you still haven't provided.

I'm trying to understand your argument/suggestion, the problem is you aren't taking about real journeys that real paper want and need to make. You are also incorrect in your suggestion that there aren't PT options for non-central movements (I suspect you don't know London that well); I use LO to vist one of my favourite pubs in Gospel Oak (a movement west). I use LO to go to Shoreditch (a movement east). I use LO to go to Brockly to visit a friend (a movement south) and I use FCC to go to Palmers Green to visit another friend (a movement north). Only FCC is on a radial route.

[Romania1]

Originally Posted by flare

I like St Johns Wood, lovely part of London

I lived there.

I'm trying to understand your argument/suggestion, the problem is you aren't taking about real journeys that real paper want and need to make.

Pay attention at the back!!!! It is clear what I am writing. People would like to go from the Jubilee to the Nothern lines with having to travel on radial lines into the west end to make a change. An intersecting line in North London makes it more of a metro and not just a part of a go-to-work commuter-rail setup. It would also being in economic growth to north London, and not have it sucked out to Berks via a silly Crossrail line.

You are also incorrect in your suggestion that there aren't PT options for non-central movements (I suspect you don't know London that well);

See above.

North London can be a fully meshed in metro all with one rail carrier LU, with many coss north London interchnage staions.

Crossrail will entail easier access for people from Reading and the likes to access London jobs. Crossrail wil act as a conduit to take money out of London, via wage packets.

The money should have been spent on improving, expanding and updating the existing network for the social and economic benefit of Londoners. Crossrail is to get cheaper labour form outside London into the centre for the benefit of big companies. The locals are not taken into account.

[flare]

So that's your agenda. I'm going to choose to ignore that as there is already a thread for Crossrail.

So what would be your suggested infrastructure for all these people wanting to travel from the Jubilee line to the Northern line?

[Isaac Newell]

Easier (and cheaper) to get the bus. That's what I do, 183 Golders Green to Kingsbury.

[davidaiow]

^That's it, when I first moved here I thought it didn't make sense having this fantastic radial service which didn't connect. And whilst it would be nice, the bus services in London are second to none and they have many routes covered, so for me to get from West Hampstead/Finchley Road to Hampstead Village is pretty easy. That and it's actually not far a walk from where I live a 10-15 minute walk sweet-spot. I frickin' love this part of London, just wish Finchely Road was less divisive and that buses, cabs and cyclists given a greater priority. I digress.

[AAA94]

i think what he's trying to say is that proper interchange station should be built on tube lines radiating our of london with the NLL like the victoria line at h&i ?

[Romania1]

Originally Posted by Isaac Newell

Easier (and cheaper) to get the bus. That's what I do, 183 Golders Green to Kingsbury.

Wow! Lumbering-transit instead of economic growth creating rapid-transit.

[RBRJ]

The Richmond to Gunnersbury part of the London Overground (North London Line - NNL) is served by the District Line. I cannot see any reason why other parts of the NNL run Tube Trains, connecting LU lines.

[flare]

Originally Posted by Romania1

Wow! Lumbering-transit instead of economic growth creating rapid-transit.

What does economic growth creating rapid-transit mean?

So do you not see bus as having a place in an urban setting?

[Romania1]

Originally Posted by flare

What does economic growth creating rapid-transit mean?

look at this

So do you not see bus as having a place in an urban setting?

Not as a subsitute for rapid-transit rail.

[Isaac Newell]

Originally Posted by Romania1

Wow! Lumbering-transit instead of economic growth creating rapid-transit.

Nothing lumbering about road transport, it's practically replaced rail transport when it comes to high end freight such as perishables.

All forms of transport have their place.

[flare]

Originally Posted by Romania1

look at this




Not as a subsitute for rapid-transit rail.

Blimney, it's like listening to Christian Wolmer. Didn't answer my question though.

Bus should not be a substitute for rail related transit, just as rail transit should not be a substitute for bus. Each have there place but the journeys you refer to in North London are best undertook by bus. I'm still awaiting your suggestion for LU and NLL interchange.

[Romania1]

Originally Posted by flare

Blimney, it's like listening to Christian Wolmer. Didn't answer my question though.

it did

Bus should not be a substitute for rail related transit, just as rail transit should not be a substitute for bus. Each have there place but the journeys you refer to in North London are best undertook by bus.

They are not.

[Sesquip]

Ok, so "realistically" the following interchanges look possible (not neccesarily feasible) from a glance at a map. Constructing entirely new stations on existing deep tube lines is a very expensive business, so I'm just going to look at linking existing underground stations.

North Acton (central) - 300m
Very doable. Both stations are on the surface and not too hemmed in by existing buildings.There's even scope for relocating the tube station to the other side of the road bridge for a direct staircase connection. Or, creating a new ticket hall on the bridge, with elevated walkways leading East or West to the separate tracks. Could even link in to the Old Oak Common HS2/Crossrail station to the East.

West Hampstead <-> West Hampstead <-> West Hampstead
Insanity that these three stations haven't been linked together already. DO IT! DO IT NOW!

Hampstead Heath <-> Belsize Park (Northern, Edgware) - 600m
Too far apart.

Camden Road <-> Camden Town (Northern) - 350m
This is about as far as the extreme ends of bank/monument are apart, or the separation of Euston and Euston Square. A tunnel could be built as part of the Camden Town rebuilding neccesary for splitting the Northern Line services. It would have to pass beneath the running tunnels, and beneath the canal, and would be a bit of a walk, but not too bad. Of all the possible interchanges, this would be most valuable.

Maiden Lane <-> York Road - 450m
Requires the re-opening of two closed stations, which are far enough apart to really need a travelator. The KingsX Lands developments might lead to a re-opening of the stations in the future, but I doubt an interchange. From North or South, you may as well take the Victoria to H&I.

Hackney Central <-> Hackney Downs (Chingford Line) - 250m
There used to be a pedestrian connection between the two (although quite how it worked, I can't figure out.) Should be simple to sort out. Do it now!

So there are some quick wins to be had, and they should happen.

[flare]

Yes to West Hampstead. Struggling to see the advantage of the others, in particularly Camden Interchange. Would be a very expensive tunnel for relatively little gain, would it offer much more than Vic line H&I->KX/Euston to get Northern? I suspect not.

[mr_jrt]

Originally Posted by flare

Yes to West Hampstead. Struggling to see the advantage of the others, in particularly Camden Interchange. Would be a very expensive tunnel for relatively little gain, would it offer much more than Vic line H&I->KX/Euston to get Northern? I suspect not.

I would imagine a re-opened Primrose Hill with a link to Chalk Farm would work best for interchanging between LO and the Edgware branch of the Northern Line. Of course, you've already got Queens Park for the Bakerloo and H&I for the Victoria, and Stratford for the Central Line. Moving North Acton into the western end of the OOC station is a no-brainer, so that gives the Central again.

So to West Hampstead for the Met and Jubilee.

The difficulty here will always be fitting in the platforms for the Met and Chiltern lines, but I think that moving the MML and NLL platforms to the eastern side of the road would give the shortest overall distance between platforms, and importantly, keeps everything on the same side of the road. The southern side of the Met alignment is a no-go, but thankfully, the northern side is low-density industrial buildings that will be no real loss to anyone.

Something like this.