High-Speed Rail in India

[nishanth.kh9]

This will be same for another 20 years

[Cosmicbliss]

Before high speed rail, it may make sense to increase existing speeds to 150-200 km across the board and have decent stations.

[nishanth.kh9]

Yes bro u r right...our stations are public toilets...theres shit all around and it stinks like hell...these railway pigs donot worry about cleanliness....its like building a 5 star hotel with stinky road side toilets...lol

[gentem]

Originally Posted by Cosmicbliss

Before high speed rail, it may make sense to increase existing speeds to 150-200 km across the board and have decent stations.

Now there is a problem to increase existing track to 200kph.. all the tracks need to be fenced

Close shave for Duronto passengers
TNN | May 12, 2012, 01.10AM IST

KOLKATA: Passengers on 12260 New Delhi - Sealdah Duronto Express had a narrow escape after the train ran into a herd of cattle near the Ranigunj station on Friday afternoon. Though the train didn't derail and there was no injury to passengers, the locomotive suffered some damage and had to be replaced before the train resumed its journey towards Sealdah. The train, which was already running behind schedule by over three and half hours when it reached Ranigunj, was further delayed by nearly two hours while the locomotive was replaced and necessary checks carried out.

Sources in the railways claimed that the train might have derailed had it been moving even close to its top speed of 120 km per hour. Passengers were served sandwiches, fruit juice and bottled water at Durgapur after they complained of the delay. Some passengers also complained that the toilets had run out of water by the time the train started from Ranigunj.

"The incident happened just outside the Ranigunj station after the train ran over a cow at 1.40 pm. The cow-catcher of the locomotive was damaged and had to be removed. The train started from the spot at 2.35 pm after all the coaches were checked for any damage. It reached Ranigunj station at 2.42 pm where the locomotive was replaced. It finally left Ranigunj at 3.25 pm. As there are no facilities on board the train to serve lunch to passengers, arrangements were made at Durgapur. Passengers were served meals there," an Eastern Railway spokesperson said.

According to experts, immediate steps need to be taken to prevent the movement of cattle on tracks used by high-speed trains like the Durontos and Rajdhanis. The Duronto runs non-stop between New Delhi and Sealdah (save for four technical stops for crew change).

Unprotected tracks are a major problem due to which the railways are unable to run trains at top-speed. The Rajdhani and Duronto coaches can move at speeds of up to 140-150 km per hour but they are not allowed to do so as the tracks are unfenced. Even if the train had run into a herd of cattle at 120 km per hour, there could have been a derailment due to the impact," one of them said.

Passengers 'in tears' after train hits herd of cows
Passengers were left “in tears” after a high-speed train hit a herd of a dozen cattle, leaving “a lot of blood” spilled.
By Hannah Furness

6:49PM BST 09 May 2012

The cows, which are understood to have been on the tracks in a rural area between Oxford and Banbury, were killed in the accident, but no passengers were injured.

So the focus should be increasing average speed than increasing top speed, by removing bottlenecks.

First phase remove bottlenecks where train needs to slow down below 60kph, like japan sponsored improved loop design which currently need to slow trains to 30kph. Then remove all bottlenecks that require train to slow down below 100kph. We can easily achieve 120kph avg with just 150kph top speed.

[Bombay2Calcutta]

DPR on high speed rail to be ready by December: Nirani
Bangalore, May 11, 2012, DHNS :
Major Industries Minister Murgesh Nirani on Friday said the Detailed Project Report (DPR) for the proposed high speed rail on Chennai-Bangalore-Mysore corridor will be ready by December this year.

The project is estimated to cost Rs 150 crore a km. Except acquisition of land, the government would not invest on the project which will be taken up under the public-private partnership model.

[Bombay2Calcutta]

http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper...cle3409893.ece
Is bullet train a good idea?

In a country given to slow motion travel by rail and road, as compared to speeds in excess of 200 km/hr in even in some of the Asian economies, the concept of a “bullet train” service between Mysore and Bangalore has been greeted by muted silence, if not downright derision.

It was a promise made by the Chief Minister, D.V. Sadananda Gowda, last week during the Mysore Zonal Investors Summit when he announced a slew of new projects for the city including extension of the proposed Chennai-Bangalore bullet train service to Mysore.

While the announcement did receive its share of applause from the audience, any further reference to the service at the official level or in public forums has a tinge of sarcasm laced with it, betraying a total disbelief that the project will ever take off. Nevertheless, the Chief Minister has promised that the work will get started by December.

Notwithstanding the scepticism about the project, a reality check is due. The bullet train service is nothing but a reference to the concept of high speed train services mooted a few years ago by the Government and the Railways Ministry. Years later, the high speed train service concept has moved a couple of inches forward! For, a National High Speed Rail Authority (NHSRA) has been mooted and even a Cabinet note proposing to establish the NHSRA has been moved by the Government and it is expected to be constituted before this year.

Priority

This is an indication that the Government is indeed serious about high speed travel and even the Report of the Expert Group for Modernisation of Indian Railways, tabled in February 2012, has stressed the need to modernise nearly 19,000 km length of the existing tracks to make them fit to haul trains at a speed of 160 to 200 kmph.

The priority would be to connect and upgrade high density networks which account for less than 40 per cent of the total track length on the Indian Railways network (about 65,000 km) but account for nearly 75 per cent of the traffic.

Hence the authorities have identified a few corridors where high speed train services are being viewed as feasible. The corridors include Mumbai-Ahmedabad, Delhi-Chandigarh, Delhi-Lucknow and Bangalore-Chennai.

It is the Bangalore-Chennai corridor which the Chief Minister wants to be extended to Mysore and if this helps augment the speed of the trains up to 160 kmph, it will be a welcome development.

However, describing this concept as ‘bullet train' conjures up images of the gleaming aerodynamically designed locomotives hauling rakes at speeds up to 300 kmph as in Japan, China and many European countries. Naturally, it is bound to evoke disbelief here.

While the high speed corridors have been identified across the country, a feasibility study is yet to be conducted and the only stretch which has made some advancement in this connection is the Mumbai-Ahmedabad stretch. But the expert group which submitted its report has not estimated the cost of the project in most of the corridors because it has noted that “the likelihood of initiating projects in these corridors in the next five years is low…”

However, it has estimated that the cost of creating the infrastructure for high speed travel on the Mumbai-Ahmedabad corridor (490 km), where the network will be designed to handle speeds upto 350 kmph, will be a staggering Rs.60,000 crore. So, the Mysore-Bangalore corridor entailing a distance of 139 km may roughly cost about one-third of the amount, which would still be around Rs.17,000 crore.

In contrast, the track doubling work between the two cities is taking a little less than Rs.500 crore (after cost escalation) and this includes electrification as well. But even here, the project is limping due to land acquisition problems in Mandya.

Officials in the South Western Railways have clarified that the high speed trains mooted on the lines of bullet trains will require separate dedicated tracks and this will mean either fresh land acquisition or creating an elevated rail track. This will be prohibitive in terms of cost.

So, a more rational step forward and feasible work would be to expedite the ongoing track doubling work, including electrification, so as to meet the December 2013 deadline to inaugurate the double line corridor. Upgradation of tracks can perhaps come next which, over the years, can progressively help augment the speed of the trains in the Mysore-Bangalore corridor to reach at least 140 to 160 kmph and reduce the commuting time between the two cities to a little over one hour.

But there are issues related to track curvature on the Mysore-Bangalore stretch as a result of which trains have to decelerate and maintain an average speed of 40 to 50 kmph over long stretches.

So, unless the track curvature issue is addressed, high speed travel, even at 160 kmph, will be difficult on the Mysore-Bangalore stretch. Also, given Indian safety standards with frequent train accidents caused at unmanned level crossings, derailments etc, the dream of a bullet train can turn into a nightmare.

R. Krishna Kumar


The cost of laying dedicated tracks and maintaining them will be prohibitive

[nishanth.kh9]

Its the worst idea...first upgrade existing tracks and stations and toilets mainly...bullet trains would be feasible by 2040 in india....so its really waste of such a huge amount of money

[nishanth.kh9]

Dv sadananda gowda promised work would start by december...is it dec 2012 or dec 2201 ??? :P

[Gurmail]

Why this needless negativity? People said the same about Delhi metro but now everyone has turned into a believer. Just wait for approx. 2020 and when you see some of these lines running successfully, you will change your tune.
Keep in mind that our resources continue to grow each year as our economy gets larger. What seems hard today will seem easier in 2014 and so on to 2020. For example it was unthinkable to build even a 20 km metro in the capital Delhi in 1995 but now we have 170 kms with construction on for another 160 kms to be completed by 2016. This would have sounded impossible in 1998.

[dunefreezer]

Yeah, with attitude like that no wonder India always makes slow progress!! I'm an optimist and I completely agree with you.

[Abinash89]

I don't know much about economics but my view is that it's a great idea to foster growth.High speed rail would require huge amount of cement,steel bars and other raw materials which can boost the industrial growth of our country like it has been done in China.So be positive and look beyond the horizon.

[sixsigma1978]

High-speed spending: Bullet train may need $3.5 million a day

No - its not about our HSR!!
I would like to portray this as glass of water half full - as it seems our Great Nation is not alone in its galactic delays of implementing HSR, Our allies halfway across the globe - the lone superpower - faces the EXACT similar conundrums we see. Notice - even the wordings are very familiar. And this is from a First World Superpower!!!

If California starts building a 130-mile segment of high-speed rail late this year as planned, it will enter into a risky race against a deadline set up under federal law.

The bullet train track through the Central Valley would cost $6 billion and have to be completed by September 2017, or else potentially lose some of its federal funding. It would mean spending as much as $3.5 million every calendar day, holidays and weekends included — the fastest rate of transportation construction known in U.S. history, according to industry and academic experts.

Over four years, the California High-Speed Rail Authority would need as many as 120 permits, mostly from a tangle of government regulatory agencies not known to rush their business. It would need to acquire about 1,100 parcels of land, many from powerful agriculture interests that have already threatened to sue. And it would need to assemble five teams of contractors with giant workforces positioned from Fresno to Bakersfield, moving millions of tons of gravel, steel rail and heavy equipment across the valley.

Even if the authority avoids any delays, its ability to complete the first construction section on time will require a breakneck pace of activity.

If the rail authority runs into technical problems, legal disputes, permit delays or political roadblocks, it could end up building less track and potentially leave an uncompleted project, according to warnings contained in its own business plan. If the project blows past the federal deadline, for example, the flow of money could be stopped. And the scramble to meet that deadline could lead to construction problems and drive up costs.

Source : Link

[nishanth.kh9]

Originally Posted by Gurmail

Why this needless negativity? People said the same about Delhi metro but now everyone has turned into a believer. Just wait for approx. 2020 and when you see some of these lines running successfully, you will change your tune.
Keep in mind that our resources continue to grow each year as our economy gets larger. What seems hard today will seem easier in 2014 and so on to 2020. For example it was unthinkable to build even a 20 km metro in the capital Delhi in 1995 but now we have 170 kms with construction on for another 160 kms to be completed by 2016. This would have sounded impossible in 1998.

Bro i may find negative mind...but you see high speed rail is not viable in india at present...chinese high speed rail authority had a debt of around 238 billion us dollars..now also they are facing huge risk of debts..delhi metro is a MRTS..you cant compare it with HSR...first let they upgrade basic facilities and then go for big ones

[mohammedirshad06]

Works for Kerala HSR to start in April 2013

Kerala Chief Minister Oommen Chandy today said work on the state's ambitious high speed rail corridor project, involving an investment of a whopping Rs 1.18 trillion, will begin from April next year.

The first phase of the project, connecting the state capital with Kochi, will be hopefully be over by March 2018, he said.

"We are hopeful of beginning construction work on this big-ticket project by April 2013 and the first phase, linking political capital Thiruvananthapuram with the commercial hub Kochi will be over by March 2018. This stretch will cost around Rs 40,000 crore, excluding the land cost, which comes at a big premium in the state," Chandy told reporters here.

He was here to launch the roadshow to showcase the forthcoming 'Emerging Kerala 2012' global investor meet. The biennial Emerging Kerala 2012, to be held from September 12 to 14 in Kochi, seeks to review Kerala's hugely successful social development model to see how it can be leveraged to achieve sustainable economic growth.

The second phase of the Rs 1.18-trillion high speed rail corridor will connect Kochi with Udupi in Karnataka and is expected to be over by March 2020, Kerala High Speed Rail Corporation chairman and managing director T Balakrishnan said.

The project will be equally owned by the state and the Centre, Balakrishnan said, adding that the Mangalore-Udupi sector will be owned by Karnataka and the Centre.

When asked about the funding, Chandy told PTI that 80 per cent of cost will be debt-funded and he is keen on getting Japanese developmental fund under the JICA (Japanese International Cooperation Agency) soft loan route.

On whether he is open to parting some equity with the Japanese in the project for which Japanese technology will be used, Chandy said, "A call on that will have to be taken at the policy level. As of now, it will be a 50:50 venture between the state and the Centre

[nishanth.kh9]

Well japan agreed to give loan only if its technology is used..

[gentem]

Originally Posted by Gurmail

Why this needless negativity? People said the same about Delhi metro but now everyone has turned into a believer. Just wait for approx. 2020 and when you see some of these lines running successfully, you will change your tune.
Keep in mind that our resources continue to grow each year as our economy gets larger. What seems hard today will seem easier in 2014 and so on to 2020. For example it was unthinkable to build even a 20 km metro in the capital Delhi in 1995 but now we have 170 kms with construction on for another 160 kms to be completed by 2016. This would have sounded impossible in 1998.

That is exaggeration, we had kolkata metro running 10 years before that. Moreover metro are successful all over the world, and high speed trains are failure all over the world.

rather india hasnt reached a state where we can go for hsr. once we double and electrify all trunk routes and connect all state capitals then we can plan hsr.

[raghussc]

Agree ... we would rather run 3 or 4 shatabdis per day every 3 or 4 hours between, say, city pairs like Bangalore-Chennai, Mumbai-Ahmedabad, etc., before running HSR.

[aam admi]

Originally Posted by gentem

That is exaggeration, we had kolkata metro running 10 years before that. Moreover metro are successful all over the world, and high speed trains are failure all over the world.

rather india hasnt reached a state where we can go for hsr. once we double and electrify all trunk routes and connect all state capitals then we can plan hsr.

Kolkata metro took 25 years to complete around 20 km. The construction could only be completed in 1998, the project was inaugurated in 1970s. Few stretches were opened but was of no use unless full stretch was completed. The kolkata metro is nowhere near to world class metro even after spending 12 times the estimated cost.
World over MRTS are known to be loss making whereas DMRC could run it on operating profit due to large customer base. HSR has been fairly successful world over so chances of it being successful in India are even more. Moreover IR is not going to improve its infrastructure and we need to have some other alternative to save passengers of punishing long waiting list and worse travel conditions.

[aam admi]

The debate of ether upgrade or invest in new HSR is, I feel, not necessary. The upgradation of existing rail network is not held up for want of fund. I feel financing of these upgradation projects is not a problem, IR do not have proper planning and expertise to do projects. Their are various other reasons like old bureaucratic mindset, political interference, lack of experience to do projects efficiently by IR and the list is endless. Even if we reject the HSR, nothing is going to improve on tardy project implementation of existing project by IR. We should let HSR project progress and not scuttle it in this either/or debate.

[mkaushik1991]

Bullet trains definitely needs to be implemented in India but also the existing railway infrastructure has to be improved in which the common man travels.

Indian railways needs a total makeover in terms of safety,cleanliness,time management etc