Greek - Israeli Friendship & Alliance

[Kappa21]

Originally Posted by Prometheus

Common misconception. While Istanbul is Turkey's largest city, and undoubtedly the social and economic capital, Ankara is actually Turkey's capital.

BTW Kappa, I live in Toronto too.

Ooo right right right..... I quickly typed this one... my bad

Hey! nice to see a fellow Torontonian from the Greek area. Where abouts? Scarborough? Danforth? Or those fringe country towns where u see a random greek flag?


In respect to this thread, I just came back from dinner at a Greek Restaurant (Promethues may know this one - Mr. Greek) ...funny story I had there a while back....

[skymantle]

Latest development

Survivors can regain Greek citizenship


By HERB KEINON
10/16/2011 04:12


Greek Holocaust survivors who lost citizenship after leaving their native country in 1930s will be eligible to retrieve this citizenship.

Greek Holocaust survivors who lost their citizenship after leaving their native country in the 1930s will be eligible to retrieve this citizenship as a result of recent legislation, a spokeswoman at Greece’s embassy in Tel Aviv said on earlier this week.

Three Holocaust survivors went to the embassy this week and formally asked for Greek passports, the spokeswoman said..

The legislation has been in the works ever since Greek Prime Minister George Papandreou, who has dramatically steered Athens’s policy toward Israel in a positive direction, took power in 2009.

Karolos Papoulias, Greece’s president, told a group of Greek Holocaust survivors he met with during his visit here in July that he would look into returning passports to the descendants of Jews who lost their citizenship in the 1930s. Among these Jews were hundreds of port workers who came from Salonika to build Haifa Port.

Some of the descendants of these workers, as well as descendants of Greek Holocaust survivors, are keen on regaining the Greek passport because it will enable them to live and work in any of the 27 EU countries. In recent years thousands of Israelis have sought European passports – primarily German – on the basis of their parents’ or grandparents’ ancestry.

There are believed to be around 100 Greek Holocaust survivors in Israel.

The passport issue came up in February when a delegation from the Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations met with Greek leaders before coming to Israel for their annual conference.

At the time, Deputy Foreign Minister Dimitris Dollis was reported to have announced that Jews whose citizenship was revoked would be able to reclaim it. Legislation, however, was needed to make this possible.

Implementation of the new law “puts an end to one period and marks the beginning of a new one. This law makes possible giving Greek citizenship to Jews of Greek origin who, together with the tragedy of the Holocaust, also faced difficulties of emigration and being cutoff from the place of their birth,” the Greek Foreign Ministry said on Tuesday.

The law, the statement said, made possible the reconnection of Greece with a big part of its diaspora that, “together with their identity as Israelis, never stopped feeling Greek, loving Greece and following all its developments over the years.”

http://www.jpost.com/DiplomacyAndPol...aspx?id=241864

[Kappa21]

I dont know about citizenship and passports..

No one in Greece pays taxes!!!!! Can i get a passport though? I heard my name was actually Dmitry Kappaladaplous?

[skymantle]

No-one? that's not true. You're reading too many trashy tabloid articles buddy. Yes, tax evasion is ripe, but please let's not go overboard. And now with the new economic measures, the national tax regime has gotten a lot stricter.

A passport for you? Hmmm, do you know how to make good gyros? What they call it in Israel, shwarma or something?

[Kappa21]

Originally Posted by skymantle

No-one? that's not true. You're reading too many trashy tabloid articles buddy. Yes, tax evasion is ripe, but please let's not go overboard. And now with the new economic measures, the national tax regime has gotten a lot stricter.

thats good! I usually shove it down to Greeks in Canada and they look embarrassed....

I was always worried about Greece since the 2004 Olympics. I read articles that people charged the government for jobs (including Israeli security) atleast 600% of what the real cost with a healthy margin% would be....

think of a days work of paving, while hiring foreign workers would be charged 70,000 dollars to the Malaks Bureaucracy

A passport for you? Hmmm, do you know how to make good gyros? What they call it in Israel, shwarma or something?

I can try Usually Sri Lankas and Indians make it here.....under tough Greek Supervision.

Im an artist. I prefer to play music. Bring me a bazouki, some arak and a stage and ill give you a good good time

[skymantle]

It's called OUZO mr artiste.

[skymantle]

Rosa Eskanazi, rebetiko siren. Maybe Kappa you've heard of her, being into music as you are, and bouzouki music at that. Anyway, I luv her voice and the style of music she sings to. We hear rebetika is also popular in Isreal.

Roza Eskenazi Tribute Concert in Greek, Turkish, and Ladino

Posted on October 24, 2011 by Dallas DeForest

Last Tuesday I went to a tribute concert for Roza Eskenazi at the Badminton Theater in Athens. Roza Eszkenazi was born to Sephardic Jewish parents as Sarah Skinazi in Constantinople sometime in the mid-1890s (the date is not certain). Her family emigrated to Salonica shortly after the turn of the century, at that time still a part of the Ottoman Empire. When she was still quite young (in her teens) she began her career as a singer, against the wishes of her parents. She was discovered by Panayiotis Toundas in the late 1920s while performing at a taverna and recorded her first song in 1928/9. Thereafter she became one of the most successful female singers on the Greek music scene. She performed with Toundas, Semsis, Tomboulis (an oud master) and many others (including most of the Piraeus greats). Eventually, by the mid-30s, she was one of the highest paid musician in Greece, and was also touring other parts of the eastern Mediterranean (Egypt, Serbia, e.g.). Her range was impressive. She sang not only Piraeus-based rebetika, but also Smyrneïka (including many amanedes, see below for one), and demotic folk music. She could perform in Greek, Turkish, Armenian, or Ladino, though she also composed a few songs, most notably To Kanarini (1934). She survived the Nazi occupation of Greece and continued to perform after the war. She toured in America and Turkey in the 50s and enjoyed a brief revival in popularity in the 70s, when rebetika enjoyed a resurgence during and after the Junta (1967-74). She died in 1980 and is buried in Stomio, in the Korinthia, which is about 30 minutes west of Xylokastro on the Korinthian Gulf.

The concert and international tour complement the musical documentary film made by Roy Sher during 2009-10 (not yet available, but you can sign up to receive notice when it is). During the concert clips from this film played in the background—scenes from late Ottoman Constantinople, Salonica, Smyrna, and also some of Athens, but also an interview with Eskenazi in mid 70s. The concert itself was amazing. The group consisted of three singers: Yasmin Levy (Israel), Mehtap Demir (Turkey), and Martha Frintzila (Greece). Throughout the show, Demir and Frintzila exchanged verses in Greek and Turkish, while Levy sang a few songs solo in Ladino. Each had her own style. Demir sang some very haunting amanedes (gazeler in Turkish), while Frintzila brought several of Eskenazi’s most well known songs to life with her exuberant performance. The instrumentation was more Smyrneïka than Piraeus rebetika. Several (apparently) well known international musicians (from Greece and Turkey) played oud, kanoni, violin, guitar, clarinet, drums, and a bouzouki. The violinist was given the lead on many songs (while the bouzouki took the back seat, largely), while the kanoni player (who also played oud) performed several memorable taximia.

The theater was full of people of all ages—young, old and everything in between. And everyone knew the words. Even when Demir sang a song in Turkish, you could hear (and see) Greeks singing along in Greek. One of the more memorable moments of the evening took place when a Greek man walked up on stage to dance a zeimbekiko. At first, the theater techies put the spotlight on him and let him have his moment. But he didn’t leave, so they took the lights away and focused them on the singer (Frintzila). This was useless. He simply danced his way over to her and continued until the song ended. When a man needs to dance zeimbekiko, this is how it goes.

What really made this concert for me, though, was the multicultural approach (an express goal of the musicians). Although I’ve spent a lot of time listening to rebetiko since I moved to Greece last year, I’d never heard it like this live–never in Turkish, nor with such diverse (smyrneïka style) instrumentation (and, in fact, I’d never heard Ladino spoken before). It’s a perfect reflection of Roza’s life, her social background, and, in fact, the background of this entire style of music (rebetika and Smyrneïka), which is to be found in the multicultural late Ottoman world (though we should not downplay the local social roots of Piraeus-based rebetika).

http://mediterraneanpalimpsest.wordp...sh-and-ladino/

click on link to hear her performing

[Kappa21]

Never heard about this form of music. Looks interesting.

So is Eskanazi popular?

[skymantle]

Rebetika or rebetiko (plural & singular) is the so-called 'Greek blues', the music of the working masses, the marginalised in society, the music of love and loss, hope and despair etc, that would eventually popularise the bouzouki. Once frowned upon, it is now very much loved and appreciated as an art form, seen as an integral part of Greece's modern music heritage, and Rosa Eskanazi, along with many others, including 'the patriarch', Markos Vamvakaris is one of the pillars of this musical genre, even though she sung to other styles of music as well.

Check this out if you're interested further. http://www.rebetiko.gr/en/index.php

[Prometheus]

http://www.defencegreece.com/index.p...cluded-photos/

Joint air force exercise with Israel concluded
November 19, 2011 | Filed under: Air Force,Featured News

In a sign of ever strengthening ties, a four day joint military exercise between the Greek and Israeli air force, was concluded in southern Israel.

From Monday 14 to Friday, November 18, 2011 five (5) F-16 Block 52 + aircraft of the 337 Squadron of the 110 Combat Wing, participated in a common training exercise with aircraft of the Israeli air Force at Ovda air base in Israel. On the Israeli side participated F-16 as well as F-15 warplanes.

The Hellenic Air Force has released a series of photographs from this exercise.

[Kappa21]

This is what i like to see

Greece - Israel doing military exercises.
It seems that both nations have the same enemy and we must fight it together


And while you guys are at it, why dont you make me some Gyros and some of that Spankopita....that would really hit the spot...

[Urban Legend]

It's good to see how Greek-Israeli relationship are geting stronger.

[A-AD]

I hope this can develop into something deep and long-lasting; we need reliable friends.

[Kappa21]

i think the Greeks are in it for our money they know where to find deep pockets to get them out of austerity!!!!!

But lets talk about Greek food. Im getting an appetite!

[skymantle]

Originally Posted by Kappa21

i think the Greeks are in it for our money they know where to find deep pockets to get them out of austerity!!!!!

Just money? There are interests for both countries that goes beyond 'money', and hence closer ties. But let's not be naive, economics does play a part as money does indeed make the world go round, but always remember, money isn't everything, otherwise your morals go out the window. Plus, there's no shortage of super-wealthy Greeks in this world, think of the shipping tycoons, there's quite a few of them and they're doing mighty fine. Unfortunately their ships are registered in tax havens which of course isn't good for the Greek state. And that's just the problem, it's a fiscal economic issue, where yes indeed, Greece has to get its act together with raising taxes and stop borrowing to get it out of the economic mess it's in, and Israelis have been supportive in this.

More details in this article.

‘Diplomacy:Continuing Papandreouism without Papandreou’

By HERB KEINON

Will the golden age of diplomatic ties with Jerusalem continue under Athens’ transitional government?

Shortly after prime minister George Papandreou was forced to step down last week because of Greece’s economic crisis, Israel’s ambassador to Athens Aryeh Mekel sent a cable (made known to The Jerusalem Post) to the Foreign Ministry saying Jerusalem’s challenge would now be to “continue Papandreouism without Papandreou.”

What Mekel was referring to, and what those in the ministry dealing with Athens are currently focusing on, is to ensure that the dramatic turnaround in Israeli-Greek ties ushered in by Papandreou does not follow the former prime minister out the door.

Papandreou shepherded in what could fairly be called a “golden age” in Israeli-Greek ties. Starting when he met Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu by chance at a restaurant in Moscow in early 2010, the two leaders clicked. Both spent formative years during their youth in the US and went to college there (Papandreou was born in St. Paul, Minnesota and studied at Amherst, and Netanyahu spent many years in Philadelphia and studied at MIT), both speak American English and both have a decidedly US-tilted foreign policy orientation.

Despite these similarities, this “click” was not a given, inasmuch as being pro- Israeli was not exactly in Papandreou's blood-line. His father, Andreas, served as prime minister of Greece twice (1981-1989 and 1993-1996) and was known for his pro-Palestinian, anti- Israel leanings. Indeed, it took until 1992 for Greece – which chartered a pro-Arab foreign policy and was long considered the harshest of Israel’s critics in Europe – to even formally establish ties with Israel.

The good personal relationship between the two leaders came at a fortuitous time. It came when Israeli- Turkish ties were already in a tailspin and Jerusalem was looking for other allies in southern Europe to counterbalance Turkey.

It also came as Greece was looking to raise its diplomatic profile and attempt to be seen as a significant player in the region to help convince the international community to give it the economic assistance it sought. Furthermore, it came as Athens was keen on making inroads into the US Jewish community to both attract investors and win favor in Washington. The dramatic uptick in Greek-Israeli ties proved once again that old adage that in the Middle East, “the enemy of my enemy is my friend.”

Papandreou was one of the world leaders Netanyahu was closest with, and the relationship the two forged paid dividends for both countries. In the past two years, Athens has gone from one of the countries in Europe that were most critical of Israel, to one of the most supportive. Bilateral ties have flourished; trade is on the upswing; military ties are close (this week the Hellenic Air Force trained with the Israel Air Force in the Negev); bilateral ministerial visits are abundant; political cooperation is very close; and tourism to Greece is way up, as Israelis are avoiding Turkey.

When the Mount Carmel Forest fire struck last December, it was the Greeks who first answered Netanyahu’s call for assistance and dispatched fire-fighting planes that, according to Israeli officials, put out some two-thirds of the blaze. Netanyahu, for his part, has lobbied European leaders repeatedly over the past year to assist Greece economically, and Israel – to show its support – even extended a $100 million line of credit in September to Israeli businesses investing or trading with Greece.

Most important, it was the Greeks who put the kibosh on efforts in June to send a flotilla of some 15 ships to try and break the blockade of Gaza. Athens simply foiled the plans by barring the vessels from setting sail from Greek ports.

So when Papandreou stepped down last week, the question being asked in Jerusalem was, indeed, whether “Papandreouism” – that new Greek spirit toward Israel – would continue under the transitional government.

Israeli and Greek officials and academics alike are confident it will, saying that while a good personal chemistry between Papandreou and Netanyahu oiled the relationship, it was the interests of both countries that propelled it forward.

“The common interest between the two countries is very strong,” said Netanyahu’s spokesman Mark Regev. ‘These mutual interests are strong enough to keep the bilateral ties at the same level.”

Regev, who said the relationship between the leaders was “especially close” and that the two men spoke often by phone about a wide array of issues, added that while there was no doubt their friendship was important in pushing forward the bilateral relationship, “now that the cork is open, the wine is flowing and we believe it will continue to do so.”

Mekel, in a phone conversation from Athens, said the last year was an “unprecedentedly good year” in ties and the “best year ever for relations” between the two countries.

Mekel said much credit goes to the Greek government and Papandreou who initiated the moves with Netanyahu. But, he said, “the ties go beyond that and are ties between the governments’ leaders and the publics.”

Ticking off the name of one Greek minister after the next who has visited Israel over the last year, Mekel said Greek public opinion supports the improved relationship and that the Greek media has been very positive.

Papandreou, in a speech to parliament before he stepped down, termed the improved relationship with Israel one of his best achievements and called for it to be maintained.

Moreover, reading the writing on the wall, Israel cultivated ties over the last year with other members of Papandreou’s PASOK party as well as with the members of the opposition New Democracy party. These two parties, together with a small extreme right-wing party, now make up the transitional government under Lucas Papademos.

That government won an overwhelming vote in the Greek parliament on Wednesday, with 255 of the deputies voting confidence in Papademos, an economist who will focus on implementing the EUimposed austerity moves

The transitional government is backed by Papandreou’s PASOK party, which commands a majority in the 300-seat parliament, the main opposition conservative New Democracy party and the far-Right Popular Orthodox Rally (LAOS).

And therein lies the rub. LAOS leader, Georgios Karatzaferis has made comments in the past denying the Holocaust, and newly appointed government minister of infrastructure, transport and networks, Makis Vorids, has questioned whether the infamous forgery The Protocols of the Elders of Zion was in fact an authentic document. Jewish organizations such as the Anti- Defamation League and American Jewish Committee have called for Papademos to distance himself from the anti-Semitism of the party’s leaders.

Israeli officials suggested that the Greek government took this party into the coalition because it was trying to have as wide an appeal on the street as possible. Only the country’s Communist Party and the Coalition of the Radical Left refused to join the transitional government.

The officials said that most of the former PASOK ministers and deputy ministers will remain at their posts and that the New Democrat ministers who will take over at the defense ministry and foreign ministry are supportive of Athens’ pro-Israel orientation.

LAOS will have one minister in the government, two deputy ministers and two alternate ministers – not considered in Israel a strong enough presence to change the pro-Israel orientation.

That LAOS will play a minor role was echoed by Evangelos Venetis, a research fellow at the Hellenic Foundation for European & Foreign Policy, an Athens-based think tank.

Venetis, who specializes in the Middle East, said that Karatzaferis is a “pragmatic and clever” politician who has supported the Greek-Israeli rapprochement because he agrees that these ties are in Greece’s interests. LAOS, Venetis said, will not throw a spanner in the ties.

Greek envoy to Tel Aviv Kyriakos Loukakis said “anti-Semitism always has and always will be condemned by the Greek governments because it is condemned by the Greek society. Anti-Semitism is completely alien to the history and values of the Greek people.”

The Greek ambassador, pointing out that new Foreign Minister Stavros Dimas told the parliament that enhancing relations with Israel was a strategic choice for the government and complimented the country's “multifaceted policy in the region,” said he was “certain Israeli-Greek ties and cooperation in all fields will continue to flourish” under the Papademos government.

Venetis agreed, explaining that on a strategic level, Greece “wants a partner in the region who can actually help the Greece and Cyprus defense environment with Turkey. Israel, for Greece, is a key partner – the only partner in the eastern Mediterranean – vis-a-vis Turkey.”

He said Athens wanted close collaboration with Israel for energy and defense reasons, as well as for security issues regarding Cyprus.

According to Venetis, while Papandreou’s role in the future government was still unclear, he was likely to have a behind-thescenes role – along with the new foreign minister – in preserving and promoting ties with Israel, especially since the transitional prime minister would be focused almost exclusively on economics until the next election in three months.

If that is indeed what emerges, then there will be smiles in Jerusalem, since a backroom foreign policy role for Papandreouism is good news for Israel.

http://www.jpost.com/Features/FrontL...aspx?id=246030

But lets talk about Greek food. Im getting an appetite!

Don't you have a cool Greektown in your city? Run along now, spanikopita is healthy...and go easy on the gyros.

[A-AD]

I was in an operating room today, watching a surgery being performed and I started talking to the surgeon. At first, I thought he was from South America (his accent sounded Argentinian), but then he told me that he was from Greece. It was quite interesting to meet a Greek Jew who had moved to Israel probably within the last 20-35 years (because I know, or think, that most Greek Jews who moved to ISrael came earlier).

[Kappa21]

There is still a community in Greece. Small, but still vibrant. In the hey day there was a big number of Greek Jews, mainly in Salonika.... that dwindled after the Holocaust, Civil War and the former fascist regime(s)

[Prometheus]

I think one military area where Israel can help and counsel Greece is in streamlining the military. I personally have believed for some time that maintaining 3 armed forces branches for a country as small as Greece leads to unnecessary triplication (in terms of recruitment, basing etc) and fosters an inter service 'competition' for power, influence and resources.

I believe that unifying the armed services is a way to both lower costs and improve coordination.

Israel can be a blueprint as such.

[Kappa21]

do you guys still have conscription in Greece?

I know it was kinda of an experience for Greeks abroad (Australia, Canada, USA) to go to the Greek army for a year and serve the motherland......


btw....Greece...fatherland or motherland?

[Prometheus]

Yes of course there is conscription, though foreign residents I believe have measures to opt out if they qualify (costs $$ though).

I don't know about motherland or fatherland. That kinda stuff sounds dumb to be honest.