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Old March 23rd, 2011, 01:35 PM   #81
Gdogg371
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it will be interesting to see how tight a curve this ends up being as it will have to clear princes bridge. also the brickwork over the bypass looks quite new and modern. was the bridge strengthened/rebuilt when the bypass was constructed? i know the next one along (over the road up to sainsburys) was completely rebuilt when the windsor link was constructed.

as for freight using it, i dont understand why freight doesnt run west bound and over a rebuilt caddishead viaduct and out of manchester, rather than through the city centre. that would remove a tremendous amount of pressure from the castlefield junction to piccadilly section of track.
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Old March 23rd, 2011, 04:42 PM   #82
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Great news, will expand passenger throughput at Picc and Vicc and speed up journey times to Manchester Airport which will surely help.

Do we know of a time-table for this now? (edit: story link is old?)
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Old March 23rd, 2011, 05:17 PM   #83
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Confirmed in the Chancellor's Budget Statement - Philip Hammond will no doubt be pressed for further details when/if he speaks in the Budget debate. Watch out for DfT press releases.
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Old March 23rd, 2011, 05:32 PM   #84
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Network rail now saying the chord will be completed 'as early as 2016' so probably still a long way from starting then.
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Old March 23rd, 2011, 05:46 PM   #85
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This is better news than Metrolink's 2CC.

It'll spread the balance of rail travel across all city centre stations more. Victoria will be regenerated and being in a better position for most destinations (shops, business), will become much more popular.

Oxford Road will be more useful for city centre travel as frequency between there and Piccailly will be so high it would be worth using as a shuttle between the two (you wouldn't do this currently as chances are it's quicker to walk). This would link the buses of the Oxford Road corridor to Piccadilly via Oxford Road Station rather than busing into Piccadilly Gardens (through congested Portland Street) and walking back out to Piccadilly Station again. This is a real flaw in the current transport system.

Deansgate will be the destination station for anyone joining the metrolink to Salford or South Manchester.

It'll effectively make the city centre stations like metrolink stops for city centre travel..

Plus the journey from Piccadilly to Victoria will surely provide one of the most interesting city rides in the country.

But will additional platforms at Piccadilly Station step n the toes of HS2?
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Old March 23rd, 2011, 06:02 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gdogg371 View Post
there is a thread called 'the castlefield curve' buried in the bowels of this forum somewhere.
I thought that was the name given to the current link between Deansgate and Ordsall Lane? That line was freight only until the 'Windsor Link' between Ordsall and Salford Crescent was built.
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Old March 23rd, 2011, 06:05 PM   #87
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Nope, theres no way they could fit the HS2 station there, they do need to approve the western bays for Victoria to make this work however.
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Old March 23rd, 2011, 06:24 PM   #88
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Jolly good!


Carry on.
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Old March 23rd, 2011, 06:31 PM   #89
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I'm not going to quote you all, you know who you are:

Additional Northern Hub platforms at Picc will be over Fairfield St.

Deansgate - Castlefield Junction - Ordsall Lane Junction is the Castlefield Viaduct. Ordsall Lane Junction to Salford Central is the Chat Moss Viaduct.

2016 completion for Ordsall Chord is pretty quick, considering the complexities of bridges in the area!
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Old March 23rd, 2011, 06:40 PM   #90
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It's there.

MEN.
Quote:
Transport chiefs have welcomed Chancellor George Osborne's £85m budget bonanza for a direct train link between Manchester's two main stations.

The huge cash injection means the two stations will be linked by a new section of track at Ordsall in Salford as part of a plan to slash journey times and boost economic growth.

It comes more than 30 years after a proposed underground link between the two stations - the so-called 'Picc-Vic line' - was abandoned because of costs.

Bosses at the Greater Manchester Integrated Transport Authority have been campaigning for investment in the rail network around the city, known as the Northern Hub.

The so-called Ordsall Chord will help uncork a massive bottleneck on the network and cut journey times between Manchester and Leeds by 14 minutes. Average journey times in the region will be cut by 30 minutes.

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It is hoped Mr Osborne's surprise announcement – tipped earlier by the MEN - will lead to further investment in the 'hub', which is seen as a key to unlocking economic growth across the entire north of England.

Coun Ian Macdonald, the chairman of GMITA, said: "This is excellent news for Greater Manchester - and for the wider north.

"Building the Ordsall Chord would mean faster journey times from Leeds, Liverpool, Bradford and Newcastle, would improve rail access to the airport, and potentially provide better local connections to Manchester and Salford.

"The new line, which would be built mainly on brownfield land, would also take advantage of plans to improve Victoria and regenerate the area around it, as well as wider redevelopment in Salford and Manchester."

Coun Keith Whitmore, the authority's vice-chairman, said: "The Northern Hub is an excellent scheme for the region and today's announcement is a very positive start in making it a reality."

The rail network around Manchester is already heavily congested and is tipped to deal with an extra 3.5m passengers a year.

There is too little track space and a lack of places for faster trains to overtake slower services. Tangled lines at junctions and on the approach to stations also cause delays.

But rail travel in Greater Manchester has jumped 82 per cent over the last decade and a report by rail bosses last year said investment in the hub was now vital for future economic prosperity of the north.

The link could open in 2016. The project will be funded through savings made by the Department for Transport.

A Network Rail blueprint for the hub said £530m needs to be spent on a range of improvements - including the Ordsall Chord. Experts say it could help create 23,000 jobs and stimulate £4.2bn in economic benefits by providing an extra 700 train services through the region each day.

The blueprint said millions could also be spent on restoring Victoria to its former glory, building two new through platforms at Piccadilly and another one at Manchester airport under its plan to boost passenger and freight services to towns across Greater Manchester and beyond.

Transport secretary Philip Hammond is set to make a decision on the full Network Rail proposals in July next year.

Mr Osborne announced his backing for the £200m electrification of rail lines in the north west in his spending review last October.

But the MEN told in November how Greater Manchester will get just a handful of extra carriages promised by the government to ease chronic overcrowding on the nation's railways.

The government withdrew £5m that was due to go towards the revamp of Victoria station in spending cuts last year.

Graham Botham, Network Rail's programme sponsor, said: "We are delighted with the funding announcement from the chancellor today, which will allow Network Rail to bring forward work to develop a stage of development of the Northern Hub plans.

"The Northern Hub will help deliver faster, more frequent journeys between Liverpool, Manchester and Leeds and stimulate economic growth across the North."

Transport secretary Philip Hammond said the Ordsall Chord would allow a 50pc increa

se in trains between Manchester and Leeds and free up platforms at Piccadilly.

He added: "The government's investment in this £85m scheme is great news for rail passengers on both sides of the Pennines and shows the government's commitment to investing in our existing railways, while also planning a new high speed network."
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Old March 23rd, 2011, 06:41 PM   #91
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That was the date the whole Hub was supposed to be finished by until the decision to delay approval until the next Network Rail financial period rather than Dft grant funding.
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Old March 23rd, 2011, 06:46 PM   #92
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I heard that this would affect transpennine trains from Warrington. Any ideas if this is true and if so, how?
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Old March 23rd, 2011, 06:55 PM   #93
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Some superb ranting comments on the MEN already. Makes you wonder if Manchester even deserves a better rail system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drdave View Post
I heard that this would affect transpennine trains from Warrington. Any ideas if this is true and if so, how?
My guess is that it means they will now run to Victoria instead of Oxford Road and Piccadilly.

Last edited by tomegranate; March 23rd, 2011 at 07:04 PM.
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Old March 23rd, 2011, 07:22 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomegranate View Post
My guess is that it means they will now run to Victoria instead of Oxford Road and Piccadilly.

Indeed, and not pass through Warrington Central either.
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Old March 23rd, 2011, 07:29 PM   #95
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I really can't see there being no express from Warrington to Manchester. It wouldn't make sense. The trains that we have now can't cope.
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Old March 23rd, 2011, 07:37 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drdave View Post
I really can't see there being no express from Warrington to Manchester. It wouldn't make sense. The trains that we have now can't cope.
I didn't say no expresses, I just agreed with the no TpE comment.

The tea leaves say Liverpool - Leeds via Chat Moss and Victoria and Liverpool - Sheffield express and Liverpool - Manchester stopping services via Warrington Central and Piccadilly (as now).
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Old March 23rd, 2011, 07:41 PM   #97
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But that would leave no expresses from Warrington Central wouldn't it? Or am I being dumb?
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Old March 23rd, 2011, 07:45 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomegranate View Post
Some superb ranting comments on the MEN already. Makes you wonder if Manchester even deserves a better rail system.
Like
Quote:
Do we want huge diesel engines tearing through our local town centres scaring the willies out of everyone
?! Where do they come from? I've had to comment myself. No doubt I'll now be subjected to a barage of illiterate tripe from some uneducated fool.
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Old March 23rd, 2011, 07:54 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomegranate View Post
Some superb ranting comments on the MEN already. Makes you wonder if Manchester even deserves a better rail system.



My guess is that it means they will now run to Victoria instead of Oxford Road and Piccadilly.
opinions: everybody wants one, few are willing to do the research to deserve one. especially those people who post comments on the m.e.n website.
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Old March 23rd, 2011, 07:58 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madferret View Post
I thought that was the name given to the current link between Deansgate and Ordsall Lane? That line was freight only until the 'Windsor Link' between Ordsall and Salford Crescent was built.
castlefield junction is the junction of the clc line and the line that heads towards chat moss (located just off deansgate). are you sure that was definitely freight only pre windsor link? are passenger services to liverpool via chat moss a recent addition to the timetable?

the thread title 'castlefield curve' is geographically inaccurate as the location in question is on the salford side of the irwell, however there are a few pages of discussion on the subject in there, which is why i mentioned it.
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