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Old July 3rd, 2016, 03:45 AM   #921
Hudson11
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Old July 5th, 2016, 03:00 PM   #922
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Yesterday



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Old July 5th, 2016, 04:39 PM   #923
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Judging by the latest pictures, progress is up to the red line:
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Old July 6th, 2016, 04:17 AM   #924
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A view of VIA 57 West, New York City. by mitzgami, on Flickr
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Old July 6th, 2016, 08:17 PM   #925
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I think Mr. Stern designs are nice looking buildings, although recently they have become rather formulaic limestone historically-sourced pseudo-reproductions.
I do consider him an architect that is defining our times, but not revolutionizing them in any way.
Robert AM Stern is to architecture what a stylist is to fashion: he pulls together a highly appealing, commercially viable and 'safe-bet' look, that leaves his consumers very satisfied (not a bad thing at all!) but he is not a creator. His Ralph-Lauren-style anti-fashion architecture is especially relevant when you consider cost...
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Old July 7th, 2016, 10:55 PM   #926
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432 and the piramid made this a freakshow
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Old July 7th, 2016, 11:45 PM   #927
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Lol. That's still my least favorite view of Manhattan but honestly I've grown to appreciate the eclecticism of the growing freak show. It separates NY even further from typical North American skylines. Midtown east is still much more traditional New York looking.
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Old July 8th, 2016, 12:16 AM   #928
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Wow! Such amazing pics
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Old July 8th, 2016, 06:55 AM   #929
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLACK DAHLIA View Post
I think Mr. Stern designs are nice looking buildings, although recently they have become rather formulaic limestone historically-sourced pseudo-reproductions.
I do consider him an architect that is defining our times, but not revolutionizing them in any way.
Robert AM Stern is to architecture what a stylist is to fashion: he pulls together a highly appealing, commercially viable and 'safe-bet' look, that leaves his consumers very satisfied (not a bad thing at all!) but he is not a creator. His Ralph-Lauren-style anti-fashion architecture is especially relevant when you consider cost...
Longtime lurker, first time poster here.

Bob Stern's buildings aren't just lipstick on a pig. He's not building McMansions or strip mall architecture. It's not the Monte Carlo hotel in Vegas. Much of Stern's success isn't just that his firm builds buildings people like (which of course is an anathema to any pretense of serious artistry) but rather that the buildings actually are quite enjoyable experiences and function reasonably well. These are fully realized buildings not just a historical skin.

I was reading his recent book on apartment homes "City Living", and something that Paul Whalen, one of his top deputies, said really struck out at me in the long forward that precedes the pictures. No one knows how to build a good apartment building. The last time anyone actually paid attention to what made a good multi-family building was in the days of Roth, Ely Kahn and Candela in the early 30s. In the interview Paul Goldberger asks if there are even any contemporary or even modernist examples of good multifamily architecture and there really aren't. Once the depression hit and modernism came into full swing, apartment buildings since have been anonymous, soulless, efficiency-based plans, based around double loaded corridors or some variation of tower/low-rise in a park idea. (Stern was quick to point out that Corbusier's tower-in-the-park is a misreading of his text, because Corb's residential buildings were low-rises of 7 floors or so inspired by the urban techniques of Haussman. The towers were commercial.)

Without question the quality of multi-family buildings in NYC took a sharp nose dive following the Depression and has largely not recovered. The newer buildings by ODA, Ismael Leyva, SLCE, CookFox, etc., are certainly improvements over Co-op City, Peter Cooper Village or Stuy Town, but one need only look at what's going up in Williamsburg and Long Island City to see the overall quality of these buildings, especially the rentals are rather mediocre. What is actually bringing up the quality of residential multi-family dwellings in NYC is all of the adaptive reuse. Turning 20 Exchange, One Wall Street or Barclay-Vesey into residences is helping to restore a sense of uniqueness and dignity to high-rise life in NYC, and I'm not sure if Stern is to thank (or blame) for that, but he's certainly been more than a bystander helping it along.

I'm struck by just how knowledgable Stern and his team are on the subject (in part because the era of great apartment houses is a personal favorite of Stern's) but listening to Whalen, Michael Jones and Daniel Lobitz -- these guys can fly when it comes to the subject, quickly referencing this architect, and that building here and there. It was Whalen who points out the idiosyncracies in Candela's work where the front doors of some of his Upper East Side buildings are curiously just off-center, or the way in which architects of that day would try and express the experience of the building different for the maisonettes down at ground level. Whalen, who was featured in the NY Times purposely lives in a home built by Bing & Bing for their luxury and the sumptuous proportions of rooms and chambers.

RAMSA treats their apartment buildings the same way a good luxury home architect regards a house, and Stern's homes historically have been among the best. Stern cut his teeth doing luxury homes on Long Island for people like Michael Eisner, which I think gives him more cred than we like to acknowledge especially when you consider so many of his contemporaries building residences in NYC these days are almost completely bereft of solid residential experience. Most of the major NYC players these days, Jacques Herzog, Gehry, Foster, Bjarke, DS+R, SHoP, Vinoly -- almost none of them do much, if any residential work -- the big exception being Meier, but Meier's homes are idiosyncratic. It should also be said that while many of those same starchitects don't like Stern's stylistic leanings they almost all respect his home building skills. A lot of the major starchitects don't really even have prolific hospitality experience, another area where Stern's firm has been near the top for decades. RAMSA's hotels at Walt Disney World changed forever how Disney would build their properties and his garden suburb master planning philosophy first utilized at Disneyland Paris, and later (to less success) at Celebration, has nonetheless become Disney and Universal's M.O. when laying out every resort they've built since (it was Stern who argued for walkability and a neighborhood feel at Euro Disney in contrast to the French who adamantly wanted something that resembled the rambling suburb of Irvine, CA -- no joke). What this speaks to is an understanding and appreciation of what people like, are moved by and respond to, and I think this where people critical of his stylistic tendencies miss this critical distinction. Being able to create an iconic building/object that is visually innovative or "moves the discipline forward" (whatever that means) is only one small part of the overall act of building. Maybe Bjarke or Jean Nouvel can outshine Stern on a museum or concert hall, but there's a reason Stern's buildings command the attention and respect they do, and why as Goldberger pointed out, I believe, people actually live in Stern's buildings. The phenomenon of out-of-towners using their pied-a-terre's as investments often doesn't materialize with Stern. 15 CPW is almost fully occupied as is The Chatham. 70 Vestry will almost surely be fully occupied. It should also be pointed out that many ex-RAMSA's like Brian Sawyer, John Berson and Daniel Romualdez have gone on to prolific careers in the residential design sphere even cracking the AD Top 100 (the latter is doing the residences at 220 CPS).

Stern also has the luxury of not having to be in direct competition with his peers, one, because his firm is crazy successful doing what they do now, two, because the body of work is already more prolific than almost any of their competitors, and thirdly because developers and would-be clients typically hire Stern deliberately. Rarely does it come down to a choice between say Stern and Gehry, or Stern and Richard Rogers. I can't imagine RAMSA is even that active in the competition circuit these days as they do enough academic, residential and hospitality buildings to make several firms rich, and they largely get to do so with near carte blanche.

The fact that people don't like Stern because the buildings are stylistically Art Deco-ish to me completely misses the point. The styling of the buildings is really the least important part of the picture especially when you consider the care that is taken with things like fenestration and hierarchies (for example allowing different rooms to have different window sizes, or celebrating changes in the internal significance of a floor or program with a setback or more ornamentation, etc.) This level of thinking about a building is sadly absent in much of the glassy buildings like 50 West or CPT (even though I like both buildings as buildings, the experience of the buildings as more than objects on a skyline is uninteresting). Even when building in a modernist expression I think that Stern's residential work at The Century in LA (the LA equivalent of 15 CPW) and The Comcast Center in Philly are powerful impressive buildings. Comcast Center manages to be the tallest building (for now) in Philadelphia and somehow still lets Liberty Place in all its Chrysler Building wannabe glory steal the show. It's unfortunate that it is almost sacrilege in the discourse for a "serious" architect to consider things like procession, arrival sequence, and how to make someone who is paying a million bucks feel like their money was well-placed. The naysayers would all say "leave the panache to Steve Wynn," and let architecture be about more "serious" things (Steve Wynn and Roger Thomas know more about creating quality spaces than most architectural critics and academics will ever despite neither being formally trained in the discipline and only tangential players). But Stern takes it by the horns and says "dammit you're going to get a motor court for your Bentley, a valet to help you out of the car, and a private elevator that takes you up to your rotunda entrance gallery." Bold stuff indeed.

CPT will be an interesting and iconic addition to the skyline, but takeaway its height and it's basically has the warmth of a building in Dallas or Guangzhou (and I really like Smith+Gill as a firm and think their body of work is mostly excellent, but I'm concerned people will see the building and wonder if its Nordstrom's headquarters, rather than looking at it and saying "that's where the rich people live." - which let's face it, is what Extell wants their building to say, and what anyone who buys in that building also wants it say.) Steinway Tower is a stunning, phenomenally rendered piece of tectonic sculpture, but I wonder what it would actually be like to live in such a place. I wouldn't even want to live at 432 Park, even if I had the money. With a RAMSA building there's no mystery. You know what you're getting. I think 220 CPS is a great achievement. I'm not in love with the final design, but I like the ambition of both Vornado and Stern's firm. It's a building that comfortably plays the role of background building seeming almost birthed out of the very fabric of the city, which is very typical of Stern's work. Bjarke's tetrahedron and his stack of cubes at 2 WTC are interesting and compelling but you can only have so many of those before the whole thing gets over-wrought and Dubai-like. I kinda appreciate that with Stern, someone has decided to hold down the fort.
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Old July 8th, 2016, 03:58 PM   #930
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^ A debut that has to be applauded! Great post. Cheers Nyghtscape, you'd enjoy the Classical Architecture forum for sure.


220CP growing its way up the skyscraper forest


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Old July 8th, 2016, 04:12 PM   #931
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Amazing progress!
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Old July 10th, 2016, 08:38 PM   #932
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Old July 10th, 2016, 08:54 PM   #933
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Picture update!

PICTURES BY 600WEST218

July 9th

http://i.imgur.com/ayvJA6o.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/j6YeW2O.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/e5LDL3N.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Z21vsda.jpg
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Old July 12th, 2016, 12:18 AM   #934
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I dont usually post anymore, but this time I had no choice

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Old July 12th, 2016, 04:21 PM   #935
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http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/12/re...m-fizzles.html
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We are seeking to follow the type of architecture which is good in the sense that it does not of necessity follow the whims of the moment but seeks an artistry that ought to be good, as far as we can tell, for all time to come. -FDR

We shape our buildings; thereafter they shape us. -Winston Churchill
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Old July 12th, 2016, 04:53 PM   #936
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We are seeking to follow the type of architecture which is good in the sense that it does not of necessity follow the whims of the moment but seeks an artistry that ought to be good, as far as we can tell, for all time to come. -FDR

We shape our buildings; thereafter they shape us. -Winston Churchill
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Old July 13th, 2016, 06:37 AM   #937
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Old July 20th, 2016, 06:22 PM   #938
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setback.


DSC08161 by Mike Neilan, on Flickr
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Old July 21st, 2016, 11:49 PM   #939
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I like that building with is proportions and details. When it is finished it will fit perfectly to that place in the context with the surrounding an the Central Park.
A bit of old style tranferred in to new times. And in the end it seems to be a building that must be there since at least 50 years. Not like 432 Penn.
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Old July 21st, 2016, 11:52 PM   #940
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half has been made
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