Eglinton RT part of $12B Toronto transit plan - Page 5

kuquito · December 25th, 2011, 09:14 PM

ECLRT=?
SELRT=?
ATO=?
ART=?
EA=?
TBM's=?

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustinB

The Skytrain Lobbyist who wrote this doesn't know much about what is going on here.

The ORIGINAL scope of the ECLRT was for surface rapid transit in York, and Scarborough, and a tunneled central section to address the hills, and narrow street width. Ford comes into power and unilaterally declares "Transit City dead", because he does not like surface transit, and think all lines should be underground. The province, in the midst of an election agrees to a memorandum of understanding to cancel the SELRT, and Finch West LRT, and to completely bury the ECLRT, and the city will find private money to build the Sheppard Subway extension to Scarborough Centre. Hence why we have a totally underground LRT line. The tunneled section of the original ECLRT was always going to be ATO, it's not that difficult, the SF Muni Metro has been doing it for years.

Now that you know why we are building a totally underground LRT line, let's move on to why we cannot just build a subway, or god forbid switch to that awful ART technology. Any changes will require a new EA. Work has started on the original tunneled section, and the TBM's have been ordered and will start tunneling in 2012. Why would work be stopped just to study the possibility of building a subway, or an awful ART line? Not only that, there is the little problem of the Don Valley, and Metrolinx is finding out,to their dismay, tunneling under the Valley is much tougher then they thought, and even building a bridge might prove to be too expensive.

So yeah...We're stuck with this $8.2 Billion line because of a Conservative pro-auto mayor who "absolutely loves subways"! The original cost of the line was $4.2 Billion. Now the province is going to bury the line under a wide suburban street at the expense of other transit lines, because he "loves subways!".

Somehow I would not be surprised if the province finds a way to push ART on this line, leaving Toronto with a line that can never be extended past it's terminus in the future. There is a reason why Toronto never expanded the Scarborough RT, the technology is too expensive, and fails in the winter!

allurban · December 26th, 2011, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kuquito

ECLRT=?
SELRT=?
ATO=?
ART=?
EA=?
TBM's=?

ECLRT=Eglinton Crosstown Light Rail Transit - a mixed surface & subsurface LRT line planned for Eglinton Avenue, originally between Jane St. & Kennedy road, now between Black Creek Drive and Kennedy

SELRT=Sheppard East LRT - an LRT line planned for Sheppard Ave. extending eastwards from Don Mills subway station to the town of Malvern

ATO=Automatic Train Operation

ART=Advanced Rapid Transit - the name given by Bombardier to its fleets of ICTS (intermediate capacity transit system) trains which include monorails, conventional trains powered by 3rd rail power systems, and trains powered by LIM (Linear Induction Magnet) systems (such as the one used in Toronto's SRT - Scarborough Rapid Transit).

EA=Environmental Assessment

TBM's=Tunnel Boring Machines

I'm guessing you've had your fill of acryonyms by now?

Cheers, m

kuquito · December 26th, 2011, 09:56 PM

Thank you I was able to figure out three of them. I'm kinda new to this, but I love it!

Thanks for taking your time to explain them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by allurban

ECLRT=Eglinton Crosstown Light Rail Transit - a mixed surface & subsurface LRT line planned for Eglinton Avenue, originally between Jane St. & Kennedy road, now between Black Creek Drive and Kennedy

SELRT=Sheppard East LRT - an LRT line planned for Sheppard Ave. extending eastwards from Don Mills subway station to the town of Malvern

ATO=Automatic Train Operation

ART=Advanced Rapid Transit - the name given by Bombardier to its fleets of ICTS (intermediate capacity transit system) trains which include monorails, conventional trains powered by 3rd rail power systems, and trains powered by LIM (Linear Induction Magnet) systems (such as the one used in Toronto's SRT - Scarborough Rapid Transit).

EA=Environmental Assessment

TBM's=Tunnel Boring Machines

I'm guessing you've had your fill of acryonyms by now?

Cheers, m

Kensingtonian · January 10th, 2012, 02:59 AM

This should alleviate any worries that this line is not a full subway. If and when transit funding gets cut again, the Eglinton line can pop back up to the surface around Leslie as per original plans.

http://spacingtoronto.ca/2012/01/09/...b-fords-plans/

JustinB · January 23rd, 2012, 03:01 PM

Karen Stintz prefers the orginal alignment of the Crosstown:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...medium=twitter

Quote:

Now, the woman Mr. Ford appointed to head the Toronto Transit Commission has added her voice to that growing chorus. Karen Stintz argues it makes more sense to put the LRT underground only along the most congested part of the route, in midtown, while building it on the surface in the spacious suburbs.

I am sure people are going to jump on her comments that it should be a subway underground, but it's going to be LRT, construction has already started.

Filip · January 23rd, 2012, 06:30 PM

Thanks for selecting the parts of that article that mattered to you.

I mostly liked the one about the transit expert saying that this line is short sighted and should have been designed as a heavy rail subway from the onset. Yay for expensive remodels 10 years after the line was built!

rbt · January 23rd, 2012, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Filip

Thanks for selecting the parts of that article that mattered to you.

I mostly liked the one about the transit expert saying that this line is short sighted and should have been designed as a heavy rail subway from the onset. Yay for expensive remodels 10 years after the line was built!

Transit experts make lousy political decisions.

That $600M surplus for Sheppard was a best case scenario based on a very quick estimate, to be confirmed by a most indepth design and costing.

I think this may be a sign that the last years worth of design/costing has come up with a number larger than $8B for Eglinton underground and the city might be on the hook for any cost overrun due to changes requested by the mayor.

We will find out though once Metrolinx is done with the engineering.

Filip · January 23rd, 2012, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbt

Transit experts make lousy political decisions.

That $600M surplus for Sheppard was a best case scenario based on a very quick estimate, to be confirmed by a most indepth design and costing.

I think this may be a sign that the last years worth of design/costing has come up with a number larger than $8B for Eglinton underground and the city might be on the hook for any cost overrun due to changes requested by the mayor.

We will find out though once Metrolinx is done with the engineering.

It would have been far simpler if Miller and his European-backpack-tour TTC officials foresaw the demand on Eglinton and proposed it as a subway right from the getgo. Now we have an expensive mistake on our hands, all caused by typically myopic Miller-vision.

rbt · January 23rd, 2012, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Filip

It would have been far simpler if Miller and his European-backpack-tour TTC officials foresaw the demand on Eglinton and proposed it as a subway right from the getgo. Now we have an expensive mistake on our hands, all caused by typically myopic Miller-vision.

Hmm. Care to point me to the study that shows high demand for Eglinton destination or origin trips?

From everything I've seen, people want to go Downtown from hundreds of distributed points in Scarborough.

There is very very little demand for actual travel on Eglinton. I.e. If you moved the line to another street (say Kingston Road/Queen) with the same SRT connection and vehicle speed it would serve the same purpose to most potential Eglinton riders as Eglinton subway/LRT/...; possibly more-so.

If we had a genuine interest in moving people, we would give GO a $1B subsidy for operations (to cover the next 30 years) and contract them to take TTC transfers at Kennedy and run 3 to 5 minute frequencies to union.

Between a trip from SCC to King via Eglinton or SCC to King via the Stouffville line, I know which I would pick (given equal cost and frequency of service).

I also know which costs less to build.

Filip · January 23rd, 2012, 09:05 PM

"Some transportation experts, including respected consultant Ed Levy, believe that it makes more sense to build Eglinton as a subway or at least design it so that it could be quickly converted to a subway. Levy said the demand for the service will quickly outstrip the capacity of light rail and it would be prudent to plan so the platforms, stations and other features could be converted for subway trains."

'nough said.

JustinB · January 23rd, 2012, 09:55 PM

"“With some money, you can build a little bit of subway and make a few people very happy,” Mr. McKendrick said. “Or you can build a whole lot of light rail and make a lot of people happy.”"

'nuff said.

Quote:

To Jarrett Walker, author of the blog Human Transit, burying the Eglinton line is an expensive exercise in road-improvement.

“Be clear: You’re not spending this money on a project to improve transit,” said Mr. Walker. “You’re spending it on a project to protect motorists from inconvenience.”

Seems like an expert is saying building a subway under a wide suburban street is an idiotic idea!

rbt · January 23rd, 2012, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Filip

"Some transportation experts, including respected consultant Ed Levy, believe that it makes more sense to build Eglinton as a subway or at least design it so that it could be quickly converted to a subway. Levy said the demand for the service will quickly outstrip the capacity of light rail and it would be prudent to plan so the platforms, stations and other features could be converted for subway trains."

'nough said.

He's right. Provided the only option you consider is Eglinton and we build absolutely nothing else (that is where we are headed).

Still a horrible use of capital funds from a ROI perspective or a 'moving people' perspective.

GO could move another 500M trips/year within the GTA on $8B capital.

JustinB · January 24th, 2012, 11:13 PM

Josh Colle on why Oakwood Station should be included. (I totally agree with his points, accessibility is far more important than speed.

Epi · January 25th, 2012, 07:37 PM

Looks like we may be going to a hybrid Transit City/Ford plan:

http://www.thestar.com/news/article/...lion-buck?bn=1

=============================
A new Toronto transit proposal delivers more bang for the $8.2 billion buck
Tess Kalinowski and David Rider Staff Reporters

Commuters on Finch Ave. could have a new busway in less than three years and shovels could be in the ground on the Eglinton LRT and Sheppard subway by 2014.

A new transit proposal from TTC chair Karen Stintz that would kick-start construction on three new transit lines using already-committed provincial dollars was gaining support Tuesday among councillors, particularly those in the increasingly powerful political middle.

“If we can come to a resolution on this we can proceed quite quickly,” said Stintz, councillor for Eglinton-Lawrence.

The plan would provide transit to tens of thousands more TTC riders than the existing understanding between Queen’s Park and Mayor Rob Ford.

Instead of allocating $8.2 billion in provincial funds to tunnel the entire length of the Eglinton light rail line, the transit would run above-ground east of Laird Dr., freeing up between $1.5 billion and $2 billion for other projects.

The savings could then be applied to bus rapid transit on Finch, where it would improve service to the city’s underserved northwest until funding could be found to install light rail there.

It could also jump-start Mayor Rob Ford’s plan for a Sheppard subway extension by paying for a new stop at Victoria Park. That would cost about $1 billion, including station construction, according to one TTC source.

Ford could then use whatever private funding he raises to push the subway east to the Scarborough Civic Centre and west to Downsview station, as originally hoped.

Stintz believes she has a majority of councillors on-side if the proposal goes to a vote in February or March. If the province were agreeable, work on all three lines could begin immediately, she said.

Metrolinx CEO Bruce McCuaig said Monday that the province is awaiting a clear statement from the mayor or council on which projects the city wants to pursue.

Stintz’s plan resembles a slimmed-down version of the old Transit City plan, but no one’s using that name for fear of antagonizing the mayor.

“I think this compromise plan will help get Sheppard built, which is a priority for the mayor,” she said. “As soon as the tunnel borers are done at the Yonge-University-Spadina (subway extension) we can move them over to Sheppard. I expect that could happen as early as late next year.”

Ford has been silent on transit since Stintz began commenting Monday that it makes more sense to run light rail above-ground in the east end, where there’s less traffic.

The mayor has been steadfast in his commitment to keep all transit off Toronto roads. His first act of office was to declare the Transit City surface LRT plan dead. But the latest proposal offers the prospect of tunneling machines pointing east on Sheppard before the end of his term.

Ford wants to extend the Sheppard subway from the current Don Mills terminus to the Scarborough Civic Centre. But under the existing agreement with the province, the city would be responsible for raising the entire cost, estimated at about $4.7 billion.

Praising Stintz, St. Paul’s Councillor Josh Matlow called the proposal “a win-win-win for the city, the province and transit users.”

Councillor Josh Colle, a leader of city council’s centre, confirmed that support.

“That idea has always been out there and it’s got legs right now,” Colle (Eglinton-Lawrence) said Tuesday.

“Many people never thought that all of the Eglinton line would be buried. It just makes no financial sense. For me, on the west end of the line, I want to make sure Oakwood station gets built and it’s concerning if all of the money gets spent (burying a line) in the east.”

Since the election, councillors whose wards include Eglinton Ave. have been discussing how that line will get built and whether some of it should run on the surface. “The biggest election issue is getting something built,” he said.

Colle, while cautioning that his ward doesn’t include Finch, said a busway there probably makes sense, given its population densities.

“It’s not as sexy as an LRT, but I think a BRT makes a lot of sense along that route and, once the infrastructure is built, it can be converted to an LRT,” he said.

Councillor Maria Augimeri (York Centre), a TTC commissioner who has advocated vigorously for Finch riders, said she was struggling to support the plan to put a busway in at a cost of $400 million, rather than light rail.

“I don’t want the concession of the BRT to wipe out the hopes of having an LRT in the next decade. I’d rather forgo a BRT if it means no LRT,” she said. “It’s really important to have a guarantee of electrification, not only for transit, but for economic development reasons.”

Stintz acknowledged that a busway represents a compromise for the 42,000 TTC riders who pack Finch buses every day.

“I think the BRT is the right compromise because it takes transit on Finch sooner. By 2014 we could bring that service to Finch,” she said.

Last year, a TTC report suggested that articulated buses running on separate lanes could relieve crowding and speed up the trip along that corridor. The lanes could be built down the middle of the road, or curb lanes could be converted into bus lanes, the report said.

One left-wing councillor, Joe Mihevc, cautioned that the idea of a busway on Finch needs more study, or the route should remain devoted to an LRT.

“We cannot be making these decisions politically. We can’t be doing horse-trading, running between councillors’ offices. We know what we want on Eglinton, that’s been studied. We know what we want on Sheppard; that can be thoughtfully presented and put out. Finch requires more work,” he said.

“The agreement has to be around maximimizing public transit dollars,” said Mihevc. “Then staff has to settle on what the options might be … to yield the best benefits for the network.”

Innsertnamehere · January 26th, 2012, 02:22 AM

Meh. Its not as good as transit city, but its an improvement.

Frankled · January 27th, 2012, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epi

A new transit proposal from TTC chair Karen Stintz that would kick-start construction on three new transit lines using already-committed provincial dollars was gaining support Tuesday among councillors, particularly those in the increasingly powerful political middle.

Does this make Karen Stintz better or worse than Stalin?

current · January 27th, 2012, 04:01 AM

A possible alternative - Jan 25 Globe article by Elizabeth Church:

....Councillor Parker, whose ward includes sections of the proposed Crosstown line, said it could come above ground on the western bank of the Don Valley and cross the river before going underground again. The line would stop underground at Don Mills, he said and emerge on the surface east of the Don Valley Parkway.

Extending the Sheppard line to stops at Consumers Road and Victoria Park also makes sense he said. As well as the provincial funds saved from Eglinton he said the federal government is willing to put up $333-million for the subway extension....

Read More: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ontent=2313981

Rob Ford is defiant - National Post article:
‘I’m building subways’: Rob Ford

Natalie Alcoba Jan 25, 2012 – 11:53 PM ET | Last Updated: Jan 26, 2012 6:41 PM ET

With clear indications that a new transit proposal is working its way through city council offices and gathering support, Mayor Rob Ford set the stage for a face-off over putting tracks down the middle of suburban Eglinton Avenue.

“It’s the taxpayers in Scarborough. They were quite clear during my election that they want subways, and I represent what the taxpayers want and that’s what we’re going to continue to do,” Mayor Ford told the National Post after he launched the Mayor’s Ball for the Toronto Arts Foundation.

The Mayor was referring to the proposal to turn the Eglinton light rail line from a predominantly underground corridor, to one that pops out onto street level in the eastern suburbs. Proponents say the modification could save $1.5-billion, money that could go to extending the Sheppard subway two kilometres, to Victoria Park Avenue, and building a rapid transit corridor on Finch Avenue.

“Scarborough residents voted me in to build subways and I’m building subways,” the Mayor reiterated. “I’ll do exactly what the provincial government wants to do. Last time I checked they’re going to build subways. It’s started, it’s going, and I do what the taxpayers of Scarborough want … not above ground.”....

....Councillor Mammoliti, who has pushed for a subway on Finch Avenue, says that if a forthcoming report on how to build the Sheppard line determines that private-sector funding will be hard to come by, then “we should be looking at improving what is there to begin with” on Finch. He favours a swift surface light rail line over a dedicated bus lane. As for what should happen on Eglinton, Mr. Mammoliti said that “during the election I didn’t hear anybody on the eastern side say they had some concerns with [surface light rail].”

Read More: http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/01...ways-rob-ford/

MysticMcGoo · January 27th, 2012, 05:28 AM

He will cave in, one way or another. He cannot hold out forever. I mean, it only took a few months for him to do a 180 and break his campaign promise of not cutting services. Why would changing his mind on building strictly underground LRT be any different?

Marcanadian · January 27th, 2012, 05:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticMcGoo

He will cave in, one way or another. He cannot hold out forever. I mean, it only took a few months for him to do a 180 and break his campaign promise of not cutting services. Why would changing his mind on building strictly underground LRT be any different?

Because Rob Ford never believed in sparing city services in the first place. He always wanted to axe them, he just lied to people about it. In this case, he isn't lying. He wants underground transit so it doesn't interfere with his minivan. I doubt he'll budge on this one, but it doesn't really matter anyway as council holds the power now.

Innsertnamehere · January 29th, 2012, 02:36 AM

He won't budge, but council will probably outvote him, forcing him to call 911 about how council overpowered him!

January 24th, 2012, 11:13 PM	#93
JustinB Registered User Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Toronto Posts: 1,279 Likes (Received): 4	Josh Colle on why Oakwood Station should be included. (I totally agree with his points, accessibility is far more important than speed. __________________ The more valuable you perceive your time as worth, the less valuable it actually is.

January 27th, 2012, 04:01 AM	#97
current Registered User Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 1,963 Likes (Received): 4	A possible alternative - Jan 25 Globe article by Elizabeth Church: ....Councillor Parker, whose ward includes sections of the proposed Crosstown line, said it could come above ground on the western bank of the Don Valley and cross the river before going underground again. The line would stop underground at Don Mills, he said and emerge on the surface east of the Don Valley Parkway. Extending the Sheppard line to stops at Consumers Road and Victoria Park also makes sense he said. As well as the provincial funds saved from Eglinton he said the federal government is willing to put up $333-million for the subway extension.... Read More: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ontent=2313981 Rob Ford is defiant - National Post article: ‘I’m building subways’: Rob Ford Natalie Alcoba Jan 25, 2012 – 11:53 PM ET \| Last Updated: Jan 26, 2012 6:41 PM ET With clear indications that a new transit proposal is working its way through city council offices and gathering support, Mayor Rob Ford set the stage for a face-off over putting tracks down the middle of suburban Eglinton Avenue. “It’s the taxpayers in Scarborough. They were quite clear during my election that they want subways, and I represent what the taxpayers want and that’s what we’re going to continue to do,” Mayor Ford told the National Post after he launched the Mayor’s Ball for the Toronto Arts Foundation. The Mayor was referring to the proposal to turn the Eglinton light rail line from a predominantly underground corridor, to one that pops out onto street level in the eastern suburbs. Proponents say the modification could save $1.5-billion, money that could go to extending the Sheppard subway two kilometres, to Victoria Park Avenue, and building a rapid transit corridor on Finch Avenue. “Scarborough residents voted me in to build subways and I’m building subways,” the Mayor reiterated. “I’ll do exactly what the provincial government wants to do. Last time I checked they’re going to build subways. It’s started, it’s going, and I do what the taxpayers of Scarborough want … not above ground.”.... ....Councillor Mammoliti, who has pushed for a subway on Finch Avenue, says that if a forthcoming report on how to build the Sheppard line determines that private-sector funding will be hard to come by, then “we should be looking at improving what is there to begin with” on Finch. He favours a swift surface light rail line over a dedicated bus lane. As for what should happen on Eglinton, Mr. Mammoliti said that “during the election I didn’t hear anybody on the eastern side say they had some concerns with [surface light rail].” Read More: http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/01...ways-rob-ford/ Last edited by current; January 27th, 2012 at 04:27 AM.

January 27th, 2012, 05:28 AM	#98
MysticMcGoo Blue Collar Bigwig Join Date: May 2010 Location: Toronto Posts: 1,597 Likes (Received): 73	He will cave in, one way or another. He cannot hold out forever. I mean, it only took a few months for him to do a 180 and break his campaign promise of not cutting services. Why would changing his mind on building strictly underground LRT be any different? __________________ An investment in knowledge always pays the best interest. - Benjamin Franklin "The Fascists of the future will be Anti-Fascists". Winston Churchill In real life, there are no good guys and bad guys. Everyone feels justified in their actions, and still manage to sleep at night. - Humble the Poet .....................::::::::::::::::::::::::........................ My July 2012 North American Road trip!

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January 10th, 2012, 02:59 AM	#84
Kensingtonian Registered User Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,109 Likes (Received): 1	This should alleviate any worries that this line is not a full subway. If and when transit funding gets cut again, the Eglinton line can pop back up to the surface around Leslie as per original plans. http://spacingtoronto.ca/2012/01/09/...b-fords-plans/

January 23rd, 2012, 06:30 PM	#86
Filip Torontonian 4ever Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Toronto Posts: 9,191 Likes (Received): 19	Thanks for selecting the parts of that article that mattered to you. I mostly liked the one about the transit expert saying that this line is short sighted and should have been designed as a heavy rail subway from the onset. Yay for expensive remodels 10 years after the line was built!

January 23rd, 2012, 09:05 PM	#90
Filip Torontonian 4ever Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Toronto Posts: 9,191 Likes (Received): 19	"Some transportation experts, including respected consultant Ed Levy, believe that it makes more sense to build Eglinton as a subway or at least design it so that it could be quickly converted to a subway. Levy said the demand for the service will quickly outstrip the capacity of light rail and it would be prudent to plan so the platforms, stations and other features could be converted for subway trains." 'nough said.

January 25th, 2012, 07:37 PM	#94
Epi Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Toronto Posts: 2,614 Likes (Received): 9	Looks like we may be going to a hybrid Transit City/Ford plan: http://www.thestar.com/news/article/...lion-buck?bn=1 ============================= A new Toronto transit proposal delivers more bang for the $8.2 billion buck Tess Kalinowski and David Rider Staff Reporters Commuters on Finch Ave. could have a new busway in less than three years and shovels could be in the ground on the Eglinton LRT and Sheppard subway by 2014. A new transit proposal from TTC chair Karen Stintz that would kick-start construction on three new transit lines using already-committed provincial dollars was gaining support Tuesday among councillors, particularly those in the increasingly powerful political middle. “If we can come to a resolution on this we can proceed quite quickly,” said Stintz, councillor for Eglinton-Lawrence. The plan would provide transit to tens of thousands more TTC riders than the existing understanding between Queen’s Park and Mayor Rob Ford. Instead of allocating $8.2 billion in provincial funds to tunnel the entire length of the Eglinton light rail line, the transit would run above-ground east of Laird Dr., freeing up between $1.5 billion and $2 billion for other projects. The savings could then be applied to bus rapid transit on Finch, where it would improve service to the city’s underserved northwest until funding could be found to install light rail there. It could also jump-start Mayor Rob Ford’s plan for a Sheppard subway extension by paying for a new stop at Victoria Park. That would cost about $1 billion, including station construction, according to one TTC source. Ford could then use whatever private funding he raises to push the subway east to the Scarborough Civic Centre and west to Downsview station, as originally hoped. Stintz believes she has a majority of councillors on-side if the proposal goes to a vote in February or March. If the province were agreeable, work on all three lines could begin immediately, she said. Metrolinx CEO Bruce McCuaig said Monday that the province is awaiting a clear statement from the mayor or council on which projects the city wants to pursue. Stintz’s plan resembles a slimmed-down version of the old Transit City plan, but no one’s using that name for fear of antagonizing the mayor. “I think this compromise plan will help get Sheppard built, which is a priority for the mayor,” she said. “As soon as the tunnel borers are done at the Yonge-University-Spadina (subway extension) we can move them over to Sheppard. I expect that could happen as early as late next year.” Ford has been silent on transit since Stintz began commenting Monday that it makes more sense to run light rail above-ground in the east end, where there’s less traffic. The mayor has been steadfast in his commitment to keep all transit off Toronto roads. His first act of office was to declare the Transit City surface LRT plan dead. But the latest proposal offers the prospect of tunneling machines pointing east on Sheppard before the end of his term. Ford wants to extend the Sheppard subway from the current Don Mills terminus to the Scarborough Civic Centre. But under the existing agreement with the province, the city would be responsible for raising the entire cost, estimated at about $4.7 billion. Praising Stintz, St. Paul’s Councillor Josh Matlow called the proposal “a win-win-win for the city, the province and transit users.” Councillor Josh Colle, a leader of city council’s centre, confirmed that support. “That idea has always been out there and it’s got legs right now,” Colle (Eglinton-Lawrence) said Tuesday. “Many people never thought that all of the Eglinton line would be buried. It just makes no financial sense. For me, on the west end of the line, I want to make sure Oakwood station gets built and it’s concerning if all of the money gets spent (burying a line) in the east.” Since the election, councillors whose wards include Eglinton Ave. have been discussing how that line will get built and whether some of it should run on the surface. “The biggest election issue is getting something built,” he said. Colle, while cautioning that his ward doesn’t include Finch, said a busway there probably makes sense, given its population densities. “It’s not as sexy as an LRT, but I think a BRT makes a lot of sense along that route and, once the infrastructure is built, it can be converted to an LRT,” he said. Councillor Maria Augimeri (York Centre), a TTC commissioner who has advocated vigorously for Finch riders, said she was struggling to support the plan to put a busway in at a cost of $400 million, rather than light rail. “I don’t want the concession of the BRT to wipe out the hopes of having an LRT in the next decade. I’d rather forgo a BRT if it means no LRT,” she said. “It’s really important to have a guarantee of electrification, not only for transit, but for economic development reasons.” Stintz acknowledged that a busway represents a compromise for the 42,000 TTC riders who pack Finch buses every day. “I think the BRT is the right compromise because it takes transit on Finch sooner. By 2014 we could bring that service to Finch,” she said. Last year, a TTC report suggested that articulated buses running on separate lanes could relieve crowding and speed up the trip along that corridor. The lanes could be built down the middle of the road, or curb lanes could be converted into bus lanes, the report said. One left-wing councillor, Joe Mihevc, cautioned that the idea of a busway on Finch needs more study, or the route should remain devoted to an LRT. “We cannot be making these decisions politically. We can’t be doing horse-trading, running between councillors’ offices. We know what we want on Eglinton, that’s been studied. We know what we want on Sheppard; that can be thoughtfully presented and put out. Finch requires more work,” he said. “The agreement has to be around maximimizing public transit dollars,” said Mihevc. “Then staff has to settle on what the options might be … to yield the best benefits for the network.”

January 26th, 2012, 02:22 AM	#95
Innsertnamehere insertoronto Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Toronto Posts: 1,958 Likes (Received): 17	Meh. Its not as good as transit city, but its an improvement.

January 29th, 2012, 02:36 AM	#100
Innsertnamehere insertoronto Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Toronto Posts: 1,958 Likes (Received): 17	He won't budge, but council will probably outvote him, forcing him to call 911 about how council overpowered him!