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Old March 2nd, 2011, 08:54 PM   #21
Mostly Lurking
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Quote:
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Is that due to station distances? I'm not familiar with the subsurface Underground lines, but I would've thought distances between stations was quite big in the outer reaches of the network. Certainly, the Metropolitan Line seems very suburban in nature.
All they need/want I guess. The fastest stock the S Stock is replacing is the A Stock which could do 70mph (still slower than Merseyrail units), but they are limited to lower speeds now.
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Old March 2nd, 2011, 10:25 PM   #22
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London Midland has had its Liverpool - London service refused, and its Birmingham - Preston service, so it looks like they will continue to provide two trains per hour London - Birmingham.
Why has it been refused?
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Old March 2nd, 2011, 10:36 PM   #23
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Reliability grounds basically.

Lots of services have been refused today including Open Access Blackpool - London services.
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Old March 2nd, 2011, 11:09 PM   #24
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My understanding is that Merseytravel are the franchise operators of the trains. It seems to me that while I accept they are suffering from savage, unfair cuts....that they don't HAVE to use that as an excuse to hold back on spending on the rail network.

It is a question of re-examiing priorities.

Perhaps if they did away with things like the utterly pointless £3 million office space relocation for Mersey Tunnels staff (the second needless office relocation they want to push) and made do with the fascilities they already have there, they might be able to place their orders for trains.

Perhaps they could sell the entertainment complexes they have and use the money for public transport (i.e. stick to their their remit).

Perhaps they could flog off that 60 million pounds worth of useless tram line to the Chinese.

Perhaps they could put a long term plan in place to pay off some of their long standing capital project debts, so we're not raped on that front for another 75 years.

Perhaps they could cut the pay and benefits of some of the fat cats in charge and scrap the high jinx travel accounts and paying money out for art works.

Merseytravel smack of a Labour dominated PTE used to being allowed to waste to a sickening degree OUR money due to 13 years of comfortable spending by New Labour*, spitting their dummies out at the Tories.

I see Labour councilor Dowd in the Wirral Globe using the Pacific Arts Centre as a political football to attack the Tory led Wirral Council.

Shamefull behaviour.





* and I am uber left wing, lifetime Labour voter.
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Old March 2nd, 2011, 11:13 PM   #25
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Merseytravel awards the franchise, they don't operate it.

As for the rest... yawn.
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Old March 3rd, 2011, 12:20 AM   #26
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They own the stock and infastructure don't they?
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Old March 3rd, 2011, 12:29 AM   #27
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I'm pretty sure Network Rail own the infrastructure. The trains are leased.
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Old March 3rd, 2011, 01:12 AM   #28
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Quote:
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They own the stock and infastructure don't they?
Network Rail and/or the Department for Transport is planning to give Merseytravel the infrastructure to manage but they haven't yet done so. Merseytravel do, however, already have the right to award the Merseyrail franchise which they have of course already done.
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Old March 3rd, 2011, 01:12 AM   #29
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Quote:
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They own the stock and infastructure don't they?
No and no.
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Old March 3rd, 2011, 06:57 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evertonian View Post
My understanding is that Merseytravel are the franchise operators of the trains. It seems to me that while I accept they are suffering from savage, unfair cuts....that they don't HAVE to use that as an excuse to hold back on spending on the rail network.

It is a question of re-examiing priorities.

Perhaps if they did away with things like the utterly pointless £3 million office space relocation for Mersey Tunnels staff (the second needless office relocation they want to push) and made do with the fascilities they already have there, they might be able to place their orders for trains.

Perhaps they could sell the entertainment complexes they have and use the money for public transport (i.e. stick to their their remit).

Perhaps they could flog off that 60 million pounds worth of useless tram line to the Chinese.

Perhaps they could put a long term plan in place to pay off some of their long standing capital project debts, so we're not raped on that front for another 75 years.

Perhaps they could cut the pay and benefits of some of the fat cats in charge and scrap the high jinx travel accounts and paying money out for art works.

Merseytravel smack of a Labour dominated PTE used to being allowed to waste to a sickening degree OUR money due to 13 years of comfortable spending by New Labour*, spitting their dummies out at the Tories.

I see Labour councilor Dowd in the Wirral Globe using the Pacific Arts Centre as a political football to attack the Tory led Wirral Council.

Shamefull behaviour.





* and I am uber left wing, lifetime Labour voter.
For someone with such strong views on the subject you do seem remarkably ill informed.
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Old March 3rd, 2011, 09:21 AM   #31
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So who's placing the order for the trains?
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Old March 3rd, 2011, 09:39 AM   #32
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Tunnel tolls, tunnel tolls...

Bored...
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Old March 3rd, 2011, 03:08 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mostly Lurking View Post
All they need/want I guess. The fastest stock the S Stock is replacing is the A Stock which could do 70mph (still slower than Merseyrail units), but they are limited to lower speeds now.
the met line is 4 track on it's main section to allow for fast running so occasionally the old beasties do get to run close to their top speeds
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Old March 3rd, 2011, 03:18 PM   #34
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So who's placing the order for the trains?
It would be physically ordered by the network operator, Merseyrail but would be part capital funded (other part from any ROSCO willing to take them on) and subsidised and approved by the franchise awarder Merseytravel however its doubtful Merseytravel would have the financial resources itself for the deal and would probably require a Dft grant or loan.
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Old March 3rd, 2011, 04:52 PM   #35
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the met line is 4 track on it's main section to allow for fast running so occasionally the old beasties do get to run close to their top speeds
They have speed restrictors these days.
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Old March 4th, 2011, 10:06 PM   #36
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Couple of bits of news.

Liverpool - Manchester electrification is progressing. The first visible works will happen later this month - from 15th March two (road) bridges will start being altered around the Eccles area resulting in total closure of one of them to road traffic for 20 weeks. A pedestrian footbridge will also be closed in May and reopen at the end of June. 90 structures on the route, and 44 need alterations.

Secondly, the new Chief Executive of Network Rail has stated that the £530 million Northen Hub plans should be the top priority for national rail funding.
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Old March 4th, 2011, 11:53 PM   #37
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Any some little bits from new HS2 consultation documents.

Euston - Liverpool in 1 hour 37 minutes.
Birmingham - Liverpool in one hour.

Platform length at Lime Street is not an issue as they would be shorter 'classic compatible' trains which are used off the HS line. Still capable of the headline high speed though.
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Old March 11th, 2011, 08:23 PM   #38
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From Herald Scotland:-

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/t...sEnabled=false

DIRECT train services between Scotland and Liverpool could be introduced by 2014 in a bid to boost rail travel to the north-west of England.

Plans to electrify the route between Manchester and Merseyside within three years will allow the service to run through to Glasgow and Edinburgh, re-establishing a link that was broken in 2002.

It is thought rail companies currently competing for the right to operate passenger services on the West Coast Main Line – Europe’s busiest rail route – from 2012 are exploring the possibilities.

Network Rail, which owns and operates Britain’s railways, has already drawn up plans for an hourly service from Edinburgh Waverley to Liverpool from 2014 and believes there is also a case for introducing more regular Glasgow-Manchester services.

However, industry sources claimed there is also potential for direct Glasgow-Liverpool services to be introduced.

Direct trains from both Glasgow and Edinburgh to Liverpool were part of the British Rail timetable but were gradually phased out from the 1990s.

Passengers travelling from Edinburgh currently have to change at Preston or York to get to Liverpool and there are three gaps in the hourly service between Glasgow and Manchester when no trains run.

A study by Network Rail has found there is a case for introducing an hourly service between Edinburgh and Liverpool and plugging the gaps in the Glasgow-Manchester service.

It would cost £15 million over a 30-year period to provide the extra Glasgow-Manchester services but the benefits to passengers and the economy would be worth nearly twice that, Network Rail found.

The company said a similar business case existed for Liverpool: it would cost £73m to pay for the trains and crew needed for an hourly service but the benefits would be worth £122m.
The plans have elicited a positive reaction from Glasgow City Council.

However, Alistair Watson, the council’s convenor of the regeneration and the economy policy development committee, said there was also a case for Glasgow to Liverpool trains to be introduced.

He said: “We can’t emphasis how critical it is to have new capacity on this route as one of Glasgow’s major transport connections to England and Europe.”

However, it is not known whether the Department for Transport, which has responsibility for cross-border services, will be willing to fund the plan, given its ambitions to cut the £5 billion public subsidies to the rail industry.

A Network Rail spokesman said: “NR is committed to growing the railway and encouraging more people to use train services. We constantly work with train operators and other stakeholders to assess passenger demand and to identify where existing services can be enhanced or new services introduced.”
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Old March 11th, 2011, 10:52 PM   #39
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Quote:
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... the new Chief Executive of Network Rail has stated that the £530 million Northen Hub plans should be the top priority for national rail funding.
Thanks for this. Good news. This is such a no brainer. The slowness with which this moves is so frustrating. Liverpool needs this!
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Old March 11th, 2011, 10:56 PM   #40
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...Euston - Liverpool in 1 hour 37 minutes.
Birmingham - Liverpool in one hour....
Wow. That will be amazing.

I don't understand this line though.

It should connect physically with HS1 under London, connect Heathrow and Birmingham Airports, and end in Crewe where it can connect with existing lines. Liverpool and other Northern and Scottish people could then take train to Birmingham and connect with hourly direct trains to Paris, Brussels, Cologne and Frankfurt.

And the country wouldn't need to worry about new runways or airports, because Birmingham would be capable of serving the overflow demand from the South East as well as the Midlands and southern parts of the north (eg Liverpool, Manchester, Sheffield etc) for long haul.
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